redtiger 1,740 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Its this kind of crap that brings on hateful feelings toward the wealthy and why Socialism looks so good. http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/06/13706124-worlds-richest-woman-lauds-2-a-day-wages?lite>1=43001 I dont think all "wealthy" people feel like this but the popular view is that they do. Not trying to start a political debate, just pointing out how ignorant this woman is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Its this kind of crap that brings on hateful feelings toward the wealthy and why Socialism looks so good. http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/06/13706124-worlds-richest-woman-lauds-2-a-day-wages?lite>1=43001 I dont think all "wealthy" people feel like this but the popular view is that they do. Not trying to start a political debate, just pointing out how ignorant this woman is Well, there's some plain truth associated with manufacturing jobs, and it goes like this..... They are largely based on a workforce that is willing to accept relatively low wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconfansrock 11 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 The cow will get what she pays for... just saying. If she is willing to pay people that kind of money, then she better expect for people to give her that kind of effort. She will be scraping the bottom of the barrell on that kind of salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Most people dislike capitalism because success in a free market requres hard work and competition. Most people embrace socialist ideas becasue the proponents of socialism promise money from the treasury for doing nothing other than voting. Leaving the reprobates and dregs of society with their days free and thier bellies full for little to no effort, and the expense of these societal derelicts is to be picked up by the working class and affluent through legalized property confiscation (taxation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Most people dislike capitalism because success in a free market requres hard work and competition. Most people embrace socialist ideas becasue the proponents of socialism promise money from the treasury for doing nothing other than voting. Leaving the reprobates and dregs of society with their days free and thier bellies full for little to no effort, and the expense of these societal derelicts is to be picked up by the working class and affluent through legalized property confiscation (taxation). Git 'em... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Most people dislike capitalism because success in a free market requres hard work and competition. Most people embrace socialist ideas becasue the proponents of socialism promise money from the treasury for doing nothing other than voting. Leaving the reprobates and dregs of society with their days free and thier bellies full for little to no effort, and the expense of these societal derelicts is to be picked up by the working class and affluent through legalized property confiscation (taxation). There is a segment of the population that sees a free payday in socialism, but I firmly believe that there is a larg group that is tired of those that have thinking the workers should labor for $2 a day and be glad to have it. Also in general the reprobates and dregs of society dont vote. I dont think either the Democrats or Republicans are really for the working class, both appeal to them to get their votes but neither is really for them and thats whats imo wrong with this nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker 82 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Ahh, it is so enjoyable to read a discussion that has been going on for over a hundred years. The talk of Socialism has always been the red herring that is used by those folks who have benefited from society to excess. Robber Barons like Jay Gould, the Vanderbilts, and Pullman threw it up to counter the rise of unions and collective bargaining and the British Merchantilists used it in the face of colonial rebellion. In the mid 20th century it was replaced by communism, but has returned. There will always be resentment of those who have a lot and have gained it by taking advantage of others. Capitalism is the economic system of choice, but there must be checks on the unfettered abuse of those in power, lest it become a capitalist oligarchy; which some will argue is the case today. This from a capitalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 but I firmly believe that there is a large group that is tired of those that have thinking the workers should labor for $2 a day and be glad to have it. Now, this is a wonderful learning opportunity for you. As a capitalist, I would assert that if people are willing to work for $2.00/day, then the employers "labor price point" is correct. If the local population is NOT willing to work for $2.00/day then the employer will be forced to increase wages to reinflate the business' "labor equilibrium". A business does not pay its employees "x amount" so the employee can find happiness, or claw his/her way into the middle class, or put the employee's kids through college. The business is paying "x amount" for your labor and abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Now, this is a wonderful learning opportunity for you. As a capitalist, I would assert that if people are willing to work for $2.00/day, then the employers "labor price point" is correct. If the local population is NOT willing to work for $2.00/day then the employer will be forced to increase wages to reinflate the business' "labor equilibrium". Or...break immigration laws and/or abuse NAFTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Ahh, it is so enjoyable to read a discussion that has been going on for over a hundred years. The talk of Socialism has always been the red herring that is used by those folks who have benefited from society to excess. Robber Barons like Jay Gould, the Vanderbilts, and Pullman threw it up to counter the rise of unions and collective bargaining and the British Merchantilists used it in the face of colonial rebellion. In the mid 20th century it was replaced by communism, but has returned. There will always be resentment of those who have a lot and have gained it by taking advantage of others. Capitalism is the economic system of choice, but there must be checks on the unfettered abuse of those in power, lest it become a capitalist oligarchy; which some will argue is the case today. This from a capitalist. Personally, I've never understood that resentment because very few Americans are denied access to wealth if they are willing to acquire it. Perhaps it's because they are confusing Mr. Jefferson's "pursuit of happiness" with a guarantee of happiness. While persons of faith can agree that greed is a sin, so is envy. Seems to me that certain folks on the left side of the spectrum ought to be reminded of that. Interesting discussion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker 82 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is it envy when the game is rigged in favor of the few? Monopoly laws were enacted in the early 20th because of just this. I am sure there are those who will be arguing this in regards to banks, and media in the days and years to come. The reason I studied history is that I know that everything comes around again eventually. These discussion happened in the 1890s, and 1920s. I am even comfortable that I know what the eventual outcome will be. It is just a matter of time. There will be a return to equilibrium and possibly a swing further away from the current situation economically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Is it envy when the game is rigged in favor of the few? Monopoly laws were enacted in the early 20th because of just this. I am sure there are those who will be arguing this in regards to banks, and media in the days and years to come. The reason I studied history is that I know that everything comes around again eventually. These discussion happened in the 1890s, and 1920s. I am even comfortable that I know what the eventual outcome will be. It is just a matter of time. There will be a return to equilibrium and possibly a swing further away from the current situation economically. IMO, yes. It is still envy. Even if it is "rigged," there are still very few obstacles to success for any individual who is willing to pursue it. I'll offer our incumbent President as an example of that hypothesis. While the regulatory environment of monopolies has followed an interesting arc, I wouldn't be comfortable in predicting the future. My own observation is that the economy is going through a fundamental change as significant as what transpired alongside the Industrial Revolution. There are demographic trends that point to clearing of certain markets, but that will only hold true if other variables remain constant. Just my two cents (before taxes, of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Thankfully the issue isint that its impossible to better ones self, the issue is those that have arent willing to give more to those that dont. Everyone in America does have a chance to advance themselves and depending on ability/skill/talent and hard work they can do so. Greed is trying to ruin this country; begining with the industural revolution, dying down in the 40s and reemerging in the 90s. My father worked his whole life underground so that now in his old age(he isint that old but you know what I mean) he can scrimp and scrape by, I dont want my life to go that way. Espicially not when there are a select group that have more money than they or their kids can ever spend. Is the money theirs, yes it is. Was it earned by the labor of others, yes it was. Whats wrong with giving them a larger cut of the pie? Make no mistake, I dont want to see the man who works 65 hours a week underground pay more so some loser in his 20s can sit around and live in a free appartment with free food and free healthcare. But I think that miner deserves a bigger cut of the pie. and youre right Hacker, this discussion/arguement has been goin on long before any of us were born Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Thankfully the issue isint that its impossible to better ones self, the issue is those that have arent willing to give more to those that dont. Everyone in America does have a chance to advance themselves and depending on ability/skill/talent and hard work they can do so. Greed is trying to ruin this country; begining with the industural revolution, dying down in the 40s and reemerging in the 90s. My father worked his whole life underground so that now in his old age(he isint that old but you know what I mean) he can scrimp and scrape by, I dont want my life to go that way. Espicially not when there are a select group that have more money than they or their kids can ever spend. Is the money theirs, yes it is. Was it earned by the labor of others, yes it was. Whats wrong with giving them a larger cut of the pie? Make no mistake, I dont want to see the man who works 65 hours a week underground pay more so some loser in his 20s can sit around and live in a free appartment with free food and free healthcare. But I think that miner deserves a bigger cut of the pie. and youre right Hacker, this discussion/arguement has been goin on long before any of us were born Personally, I don't think anyone (myself included) is entitled to any particular portion of "the pie." I tend to concur with Messr. Sartre in the opinion that mankind is "condemned to be free." I also find the words of Leviticus 19:15 to be instructive with regard to issues of rich vs. poor: "You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great; with justice you shall judge your neighbor." Respecting any individual for a life of good, honest hard work doesn't make it necessary to vilify the individual of means whose investment makes that employment possible. (Assuming, of course, that the employer is compliant with the laws and mores of society.) I do respect and appreciate your point of view, redtiger. And I have an enormous amount of respect for any individual who works hard for a living. It's obvious that you are very proud of your father and also that he is worthy of such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtiger 1,740 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) He is really my stepdad and yes, a very worthy man. Supported my mom, me and my brother when he didnt have to. He has a troubled/less than glorious past but he has been a good husband/father to us. Ive seen the man puke his guts out and go on to work, never complain about it. I dont mean to vilify those who do what is necessary to ensure the future of their companies and make a profit(thats the name of the game), I mean to vilify those who turned their back on their workers and America. I think the auto makers who went over seas while leaving this country high and dry are shameful and should pay higher taxes for their greed. I feel the same way about the banks that have sold out Americans to make a greater profit. Maybe I am angry and bitter but I see a few making record profits while this country is falling apart, I cant help but point the finger in their direction and ask them to pay to help fix it. I will be the first to admit the country is suffering for alot of reasons but I think reigning in those companies/people that are purely profit motivated is the start. Have alot of the wealthy companies/people really been compliant with the mores of society? or have they just gotten away with it? Edited September 8, 2012 by redtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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