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1997 PV-Appy article from BHC


sup_rbeast
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1 hour ago, TTownTigers said:

Powell Valley was a great, great program, and I never wrote that Phil would have left the majority of those titles on the table.  I wrote the word some, as in about 1/3rd.  In 97, that Gate City team was lights out by seasons end, but we were beat all over the field by Jefferson Forest.  Many talk about the multiple OT game with Graham in Bluefield in 97 of which I couldn't go and was a classic, but I watched Jefferson Forest and we were fortunate, fortunate, and fortunate some more.  This was a classic.  They were a BETTER team than we were in my opinion.  If we play 10 times, they win 8 of 10.  No discredit to the Gate, we got the W with the famous knuckler over the goal post, and on to win the title the next game, but Jefferson Forest would have beat Powell Valley in the playoffs.  We can debate it forever yes or no.  There's no point, but my point is, forget about just Gate City and Graham.  Many fell to realize you had to go through a Giles and Radford at one point in the same region, but again, forget about all 4 of these schools, it's what lies ahead in that former Region C which was a beast with teams like J. Forest, Rustburg, Martinsville, Liberty, etc, and if you win that one, you don't get to play Central of Lunenburg or Madison County, you get to play a Nottoway, Southampton, Tabb (yes, Tabb was AA and in Gate City and Graham's level before the 6 Divisions were introduced in the mid 80's).  This is the point that P. Valley fans fell to mention, and it's not even on purpose, they simply weren't aware of the caliber of some of these teams Outside of the old Region 4.  

Many constantly go to the "Jones Brothers".  These teams were fantastic.  I'm referring more to the 80's, for example, Powell Valley's first title in 82.  They would have been beat by 28 points against Tabb, or Courtland, or Martinsville that year.  It would have been no contest.  In 1985, P. Valley's second title.  Both Giles and Blacksburg would have wiped the field with Powell Valley, and again, so would have Tabb and so would have Courtland.  In 89, Graham would have crushed Powell Valley, they wouldn't have had to worry about advancing outside of the Region that year.  Those 3 state titles for Powell Valley would have been null and void and simply wouldn't have been titles.  In the 90's, I don't argue regarding the Jones Brothers, but I still believe one of those teams would have been beat on one of those years against a team like Jefferson Forest or Rustburg in Region C.  I think that's definitely true for Powell Valley's last state title. 

Where do you come up with this garbage? FYI, GC beat PV EXACTLY 1 time in a year PV won a title...and that win was gained on a failed 2 point conversion trt by PV in OT. On the try the receiver was wide open but couldn’t come up with a slightly underthrown ball. That’s how close GC was to an O-fer. Games are settled on the field, and usually, when PV was good, GC would come up short. You would think that sting would’ve worn off for you guys by now. Numbers don’t lie. 

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22 hours ago, redtiger said:

Excellent article and Phil proves again why he's the biggest jerk in SWVA 

Your exactly right about Phil.  Go ask any of the players and see who their biggest rival was.  Gate City I can understand but he also went with Lee that's where he lost me.

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1 hour ago, sup_rbeast said:

Where do you come up with this garbage? FYI, GC beat PV EXACTLY 1 time in a year PV won a title...and that win was gained on a failed 2 point conversion trt by PV in OT. On the try the receiver was wide open but couldn’t come up with a slightly underthrown ball. That’s how close GC was to an O-fer. Games are settled on the field, and usually, when PV was good, GC would come up short. You would think that sting would’ve worn off for you guys by now. Numbers don’t lie. 

Not about PV beating GC or GC beating PV.  It's about the following schools, Gate City, Graham, Radford, Giles, Blacksburg at one point, Martinsville, Jefferson Forest, Rustburg, Park-View Sterling, Courtland, Tabb, Southampton, James Monroe.  It's about THEM schools, and I repeat, if you are AA in 1982 or 1985, you can forget it.  Martinsville and Blacksburg would have crushed you, and if you somehow win, you get Courtland which was 28 points better.  In 1989, you ain't getting out of the Region as Graham would have blasted you in 1989, and Graham and Rustburg would have done the same in 1990.  You keep focusing on SWVA and "if we can beat GC, then we must have been able to go ahead and win the title."  Like I wrote, take GC off the list and look at the other schools above.  These teams aren't Madison County and Central-Lunenberg.  I agree with you, numbers don't lie, and back then, single A ball (prior to 1985ish) or Div 2 (big- single A ball 1986ish) was exactly that, and there was a big difference in quality of teams between that level and the next level up.

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4 hours ago, TTownTigers said:

Powell Valley was a great, great program, and I never wrote that Phil would have left the majority of those titles on the table.  I wrote the word some, as in about 1/3rd.  In 97, that Gate City team was lights out by seasons end, but we were beat all over the field by Jefferson Forest.  Many talk about the multiple OT game with Graham in Bluefield in 97 of which I couldn't go and was a classic, but I watched Jefferson Forest and we were fortunate, fortunate, and fortunate some more.  This was a classic.  They were a BETTER team than we were in my opinion.  If we play 10 times, they win 8 of 10.  No discredit to the Gate, we got the W with the famous knuckler over the goal post, and on to win the title the next game, but Jefferson Forest would have beat Powell Valley in the playoffs.  We can debate it forever yes or no.  There's no point, but my point is, forget about just Gate City and Graham.  Many fell to realize you had to go through a Giles and Radford at one point in the same region, but again, forget about all 4 of these schools, it's what lies ahead in that former Region C which was a beast with teams like J. Forest, Rustburg, Martinsville, Liberty, etc, and if you win that one, you don't get to play Central of Lunenburg or Madison County, you get to play a Nottoway, Southampton, Tabb (yes, Tabb was AA and in Gate City and Graham's level before the 6 Divisions were introduced in the mid 80's).  This is the point that P. Valley fans fell to mention, and it's not even on purpose, they simply weren't aware of the caliber of some of these teams Outside of the old Region 4.  

Many constantly go to the "Jones Brothers".  These teams were fantastic.  I'm referring more to the 80's, for example, Powell Valley's first title in 82.  They would have been beat by 28 points against Tabb, or Courtland, or Martinsville that year.  It would have been no contest.  In 1985, P. Valley's second title.  Both Giles and Blacksburg would have wiped the field with Powell Valley, and again, so would have Tabb and so would have Courtland.  In 89, Graham would have crushed Powell Valley, they wouldn't have had to worry about advancing outside of the Region that year.  Those 3 state titles for Powell Valley would have been null and void and simply wouldn't have been titles.  In the 90's, I don't argue regarding the Jones Brothers, but I still believe one of those teams would have been beat on one of those years against a team like Jefferson Forest or Rustburg in Region C.  I think that's definitely true for Powell Valley's last state title. 

 

You know nothing. The 89 PV is argued by some as the best PV team ever. You've proven you have no clue about what you're talking about.

 

And PV handled GC in 97, nothing would have changed that. PV would've beaten JF just like GC did.

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1 hour ago, TTownTigers said:

Not about PV beating GC or GC beating PV.  It's about the following schools, Gate City, Graham, Radford, Giles, Blacksburg at one point, Martinsville, Jefferson Forest, Rustburg, Park-View Sterling, Courtland, Tabb, Southampton, James Monroe.  It's about THEM schools, and I repeat, if you are AA in 1982 or 1985, you can forget it.  Martinsville and Blacksburg would have crushed you, and if you somehow win, you get Courtland which was 28 points better.  In 1989, you ain't getting out of the Region as Graham would have blasted you in 1989, and Graham and Rustburg would have done the same in 1990.  You keep focusing on SWVA and "if we can beat GC, then we must have been able to go ahead and win the title."  Like I wrote, take GC off the list and look at the other schools above.  These teams aren't Madison County and Central-Lunenberg.  I agree with you, numbers don't lie, and back then, single A ball (prior to 1985ish) or Div 2 (big- single A ball 1986ish) was exactly that, and there was a big difference in quality of teams between that level and the next level up.

To be frank, you're full of shit. 

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27 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

 

You know nothing. The 89 PV is argued by some as the best PV team ever. You've proven you have no clue about what you're talking about.

 

And PV handled GC in 97, nothing would have changed that. PV would've beaten JF just like GC did.

There is 0.00% chance Powell Valley would have beaten Graham in 1989.  Graham didn’t allow a single point until Game 9 and shut out 10 opppnents in all, including Southampton in the title game.  The one game Graham lost (mounting pressure from a national ranking and the scoreless streak), Graham avenged in a strong way in the playoffs.  Powell Valley would have been fortunate to have scored had the two met in the playoffs.

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19 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

IDK '89 was. '90 is a whole different story. I would put that team against almost anybody.

I doubt the 1990 team would have beaten either Graham or Rustburg, but it’s a closer proposition than 1989.  That 1990 Graham team was about 90% as good as the 1989 team was.

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1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

IDK '89 was. '90 is a whole different story. I would put that team against almost anybody.

Maybe I'm thinking of 1990 then. In 90, PV was undefeated and never scored fewer than 27 points, beat GC 40-18, and didn't allow more than 28, and that was in title game. It sounds as if 89 Graham was historically good, but I believe the two teams in 1990 would be very close. PV beat a good Lee team 30-13 too. 

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Who would’ve beaten who etc. is pure speculation. The results we do know were settled on the field in each classification. One thing I do know is that the ‘89 PV team beat Richlands and Honaker by a combined score of 100-13 in the first 2 games of the season, leading to both teams dropping the Vikings from the schedule. Phil Robbins looked high and low to find 2 teams to replace them, and had to settle on travelling to Haysi and Grundy to open the 1990 season which left PV with only 4 home games in 1990. If Graham had wanted a game that year, all they had to do was say “yes”, because I know for a fact they were asked to fill one of those holes. As far as the ‘89 Vikings go, they didn’t give up many points either, and around half of the points they did give up was in trash time with the starters on the bench. So, speculate away.

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24 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Maybe I'm thinking of 1990 then. In 90, PV was undefeated and never scored fewer than 27 points, beat GC 40-18, and didn't allow more than 28, and that was in title game. It sounds as if 89 Graham was historically good, but I believe the two teams in 1990 would be very close. PV beat a good Lee team 30-13 too. 

That Lee team lost in the Division 4 finals by 1 or 2 points to Tabb.

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1 hour ago, SWVAgridiron said:

I went on YouTube and watched this whole game and I would've loved to have been there in person. 

It was something. I don't know why, but this stands out to me more than anything...seeing guys with their letterman jackets on as far away as Dobyns Bennett. Thinking, wow, this is a bigger deal than I thought.  Haha

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1 hour ago, UVAObserver said:

I doubt the 1990 team would have beaten either Graham or Rustburg, but it’s a closer proposition than 1989.  That 1990 Graham team was about 90% as good as the 1989 team was.

It is all speculation as Beast said, but I do recall seeing a report on WCYB about the '89 Graham team, discussing how they were 8-0, I think, and hadn't been scored on. I remember turning to my dad and saying, "we don't have to play them do we?" Lol

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1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

Maybe I'm thinking of 1990 then. In 90, PV was undefeated and never scored fewer than 27 points, beat GC 40-18, and didn't allow more than 28, and that was in title game. It sounds as if 89 Graham was historically good, but I believe the two teams in 1990 would be very close. PV beat a good Lee team 30-13 too. 

LOL, now you are using the word "maybe" yet you were quick to stay "your full of shi*" to me", and you can't even get the year right.  In the same breath, you write how I know nothing.  LOL.  The your "full of you know what" comment is a good one that may better serve yourself.  By the way, that 1989 PV team you refer to lost to GC in overtime that year in regular season.  I assume (will give you the benefit of the doubt) that you meant 1990, and no, in 1990, you would not have beat Graham that year either, but again, you wouldn't have had to worry about it if you did, because you lose the next one.  You see, PV at their level often only had to "get up" 2 of 4 games in the playoffs.  At the next level in AA before 1986 or Div 3 after 1986, games 2 through 4 in the playoffs were atrocious, and even game 1 in the playoffs was losable.  Example, in 1990, Powell Valley leads Gate City 26-18 with 10 minutes left in the game, and adds two late scores to pull away.  No question, it was a solid PV team.  That same Gate City team was down 34-7 at the end of the 3rd quarter against Graham in the region finals prior to a great Graham team (undefeated on the season) and some Graham fans have told me 90 was as good as 89.  Gate City added a score with 54 seconds left in the game with JV players in to make it look more respectable, but it wasn't.  It was an absolute blowout.  My nephew was on that GC team.  Graham absolutely pummeled Gate City in the region finals only to lose the next game at Rustburg.  You see, for example in 1990, if PV were playing Div 3 at that time, they get Gate City again in round 1 of the playoffs, then at Graham in round 2 (Graham played teams like Salem back then and yes, they would have had more power points) then if you win, on the road at Rustburg, and if you win that, against Nottoway.  Rustburg won the state title 7-6 over Nottoway that year.  That Nottoway team turned the ball over 5 times to zero turnovers for Rustburg in the state title game and doubled them in yardage.  Credit Rustburg for the win, but you get the point.  The level of competition would have hindered PV from winning some of those titles.  Certainly not all, but some, and I'm 100% confident 1982, 1985, and 1989 would have been state title goose eggs.  Some of those early to mid 80's Courtland teams were some of the best AA teams to suit up in Virginia.  This is what I'm talking about with PV than many in Big Stone again fell to realize.. Now you can call the above "BS" and scream and shout, but much of the above ae not about "me not knowing shi*".  Much of the above are literally true statements-facts that occurred.

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1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

Maybe I'm thinking of 1990 then. In 90, PV was undefeated and never scored fewer than 27 points, beat GC 40-18, and didn't allow more than 28, and that was in title game. It sounds as if 89 Graham was historically good, but I believe the two teams in 1990 would be very close. PV beat a good Lee team 30-13 too. 

By the way, I agree the 1990 team with PV and Graham would have likely been close, but once again, you still seem to have that far SWVA vision or lack thereof regarding what lies beyond.  It's the 2 beasts after Graham that would have caused PV trouble and would have beat PV, even if they somehow get by Graham in 1990 (which they wouldn't have).  You see, playing a team like Graham in the region finals requires you to be emotionally way up and you likely get your depth chart cut into as you get an injury or two going into the next game at Rustburg, and if you win that, the same thing against Nottoway, and that's the part you don't see from PV's perspective.  The road to winning a title was very tough and it really only just began when you got by SWVA.   But to be fair, did you know who Central Lunenburgs long time rival is?  It's Nottoway, and in 1990, in game 1 of the season, Lunenburg beat Nottoway 8-6 at Central-Lunenburg (Victoria, Va).  But hey, I don't know "shit" as you say, lol, and I'm sure you aware of that fact, right?  I'm sure you'll take it since it favors a PV argument, and it does for 1990 show that PV was certainly good enough to win a state title at the next level, but you can also see that there were 3 teams right there (Graham, Rustburg, Nottoway, and add Robert E Lee that year) that were equally as good as PV and when you have 3-4 teams as good, you have to be perfect down the stretch against competition that doesn't take a weak off compared to the road PV often travelled to get to the Single A or Div 2 state title game.  1990 is said to be one of PV's best of all time, but I think 98 was.  1998 would have won the state title from Div 1 through Div 4, and yes, it would have beat Salem who won it that year I think in Div 4 (big double A).

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25 minutes ago, TTownTigers said:

By the way, I agree the 1990 team with PV and Graham would have likely been close, but once again, you still seem to have that far SWVA vision or lack thereof regarding what lies beyond.  It's the 2 beasts after Graham that would have caused PV trouble and would have beat PV, even if they somehow get by Graham in 1990 (which they wouldn't have).  You see, playing a team like Graham in the region finals requires you to be emotionally way up and you likely get your depth chart cut into as you get an injury or two going into the next game at Rustburg, and if you win that, the same thing against Nottoway, and that's the part you don't see from PV's perspective.  The road to winning a title was very tough and it really only just began when you got by SWVA.   But to be fair, did you know who Central Lunenburgs long time rival is?  It's Nottoway, and in 1990, in game 1 of the season, Lunenburg beat Nottoway 8-6 at Central-Lunenburg (Victoria, Va).  But hey, I don't know "shit" as you say, lol, and I'm sure you aware of that fact, right?  I'm sure you'll take it since it favors a PV argument, and it does for 1990 show that PV was certainly good enough to win a state title at the next level, but you can also see that there were 3 teams right there (Graham, Rustburg, Nottoway, and add Robert E Lee that year) that were equally as good as PV and when you have 3-4 teams as good, you have to be perfect down the stretch against competition that doesn't take a weak off compared to the road PV often travelled to get to the Single A or Div 2 state title game.  1990 is said to be one of PV's best of all time, but I think 98 was.  1998 would have won the state title from Div 1 through Div 4, and yes, it would have beat Salem who won it that year I think in Div 4 (big double A).

Tell me one team who ever won a title by speculation and I’ll give credence to your argument. Until then, I’ll just attribute your raw ass to jealousy. Apparently, you know little about historical VHSL teams, or you would know that outside of losses to PV, Central of Lunenburg only lost a handful of games over a decade. When it comes to PV, classification didn’t mean diddley...anyone who wanted some could’ve got some because Phil didn’t duck anyone.

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26 minutes ago, sup_rbeast said:

Tell me one team who ever won a title by speculation and I’ll give credence to your argument. Until then, I’ll just attribute your raw ass to jealousy. Apparently, you know little about historical VHSL teams, or you would know that outside of losses to PV, Central of Lunenburg only lost a handful of games over a decade. When it comes to PV, classification didn’t mean diddley...anyone who wanted some could’ve got some because Phil didn’t duck anyone.

No jealousy here.  I'm a GC fan.  No need to be jealous of any team in Virginia other than Hampton.  PV didn't win titles by speculation, they won them in A ball or Div 2 ball.  That's a fact. And apparently, I know quite a bit more about historical VHSL teams than at least one of your buddies who can't even get his years straight for P.V.  Central Lunenburg and the former legendary coach Chippie Chappell, I know all about em.  They lost 10 games total (playoffs and regular season combined) from 1980 to 1989, and if you add in 1990, 11 total losses in 11 seasons and this includes the playoffs.  Want to know a bit more, since I know nothing about historical VHSL football history?  Chippie Chappell lived the first 10 years of his life not far from you and I. Bristol, VA. You are wrong on one point.  You wrote when it came to classification and PV, it didn't mean diddley.  Yes, it actually did.  It's the reason you have an additional 3, likely 4 state titles that you simply wouldn't have won if you played AA ball before 86, or Div 3 ball after 86.

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25 minutes ago, TTownTigers said:

No jealousy here.  I'm a GC fan.  No need to be jealous of any team in Virginia other than Hampton.  PV didn't win titles by speculation, they won them in A ball or Div 2 ball.  That's a fact. And apparently, I know quite a bit more about historical VHSL teams than at least one of your buddies who can't even get his years straight for P.V.  Central Lunenburg and the former legendary coach Chippie Chappell, I know all about em.  They lost 10 games total (playoffs and regular season combined) from 1980 to 1989, and if you add in 1990, 11 total losses in 11 seasons and this includes the playoffs.  Want to know a bit more, since I know nothing about historical VHSL football history?  Chippie Chappell lived the first 10 years of his life not far from you and I. Bristol, VA. You are wrong on one point.  You wrote when it came to classification and PV, it didn't mean diddley.  Yes, it actually did.  It's the reason you have an additional 3, likely 4 state titles that you simply wouldn't have won if you played AA ball before 86, or Div 3 ball after 86.

PV played in their enrolllment classification...by your arguemt there are no legitimate champions as long as there are  champions from higher classifications as well...which makes no sense. So, ramble on all you llike, because I have found that matching wits with you is pretty much the same thing as playing Trivial Pursuit against a hamster...it would make the same sense, anyway.

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38 minutes ago, sup_rbeast said:

PV played in their enrolllment classification...by your arguemt there are no legitimate champions as long as there are  champions from higher classifications as well...which makes no sense. So, ramble on all you llike, because I have found that matching wits with you is pretty much the same thing as playing Trivial Pursuit against a hamster...it would make the same sense, anyway.

No matching wits here.  Just giving you many factual statements.  I know your thing, your mantra is the old "it's pure speculation" when you disagree with someone.  I get it.  PV could have been playing at the same level of Graham and Gate City.  The numbers were similar, and they chose to play at that level and you absolutely know it's true.  One last thing you need to never forget since you wrote in a previous post that "Gate City came up short against PV."  You do understand who is who's bitc* in the all-time series, correct?  Never forget that.  Forget about classification (because you've been out-argued) and forget titles, fact is, over the years, when GC played PV, PV was the recipient of being GC's beeoootcchh much more times than we were yours.  That stat will never change.  In your mind, I'm sure you consider it "pure speculation."  One other key fact, when GC dropped to Div 2, we played P. Valley 7 times in the playoffs before PV High closed/combined with Appy.   GC was 5 and 2 against PV.  What happened in the first decade of this century is exactly what would have been the case if we played at the same level in the 1980s.  Your state titles came to a rapid halt. Imagine throwing in Graham in there and facing the rest of AA Virginia in the 80's  You can slice PV's titles in half.  You would have 4 at most, maybe only 3.  The very thing that you and I are arguing actually happened in the 2000's.  GC drops, and PV's state titles stops. 

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6 hours ago, Canes00 said:

I'm just curious but if you took the players off this Union team and it was still Appalachia and Powell Valley who would have the better team this season?

First few seasons of Union, that was talked about. "He's from Appy." "That's a PV boy." So forth and so on. Since then, I couldn't tell ya. Haven't heard that mentioned by anyone around me either in quite some time. They have meshed so well, it's not really a topic of conversation any longer. Outside of a few kids, I don't have a clue who's from where. Someone else may know, but not me. Consolidation couldn't have gone better.

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38 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

First few seasons of Union, that was talked about. "He's from Appy." "That's a PV boy." So forth and so on. Since then, I couldn't tell ya. Haven't heard that mentioned by anyone around me either in quite some time. They have meshed so well, it's not really a topic of conversation any longer. Outside of a few kids, I don't have a clue who's from where. Someone else may know, but not me. Consolidation couldn't have gone better.

Classy bunch and speaks to the Coaching Staff/Turner. I'm rooting for the Bears to kick arse this coming weekend through the finals and will be rooting them on.  If the Bears lose, I will cheer on the SWVA team that wins Region D, and that hasn't changed with me.  If the Bears win a title, it would have been a good year in High School Football for me other than the Gate winning one, and of course, we were't anywhere on the planet to getting close, but I ALWAYS root for SWVA teams, regardless of rivals, former rivals, etc, and regardless of some smack talking between rival fans.  To the Union fans out there, or more specific, the P. Valley faithful, I do respect the ole Vikings contrary to what you may believe.  

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I have heard some wonderful arguments on here of who is and was the best is swva. I've come to the conclusion that swva has probably the most rich football heritage of any rural area in the USA. I know there are probably areas somewhere in California Texas or Florida that may be better but I would argue that nowhere in America has so many schools in a rural area that has put up so many state titles as swva has. The 70s through the 90s show that swva had some very talented kids. 

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