Plywood_King 516 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 As a whippersnapper myself, I'm curious because it's never been explained to me how state championships were settled pre-1970 (the point at which the VHSL begins recognizing "VHSL State Football Champions"). I assume there was a playoff system, but I'm curious as to why the VHSL doesn't recognize those championships. Was the playoff not sponsored by the VHSL? Was is weirdly structured and therefore invalid? Was there no playoff at all all, and it was settled in an "AP National Champion" fashion where a newspaper just picked the best team in the state? I really have no knowledge of this at all, and any info that anyone may have would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield researcher 1,195 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 The VHSL recognizes the champions in the VHSL record book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam McPoyle 1,863 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 There wasn't a consistant method to determine a champion. I believe it was mostly based on the votes of sportswriters across the state considering regular season results only. Example: Graham won the 1962 state championship with a 9-1 record. Though I have heard of schools trying to match-up top teams (e.g. East vs West) after the regular season for the title. I'm sure the voting method was extremely controversial. Marion's 1930 team was 10-1-1 and has a "state championship trophy"; however, VHSL recognized a different team that year. So yes, @Plywood_King, much like the AP-UPI-USAT annual polls debacle prior to BCA/BCF/CFP. (records per @Bluefield researcher Yearly Record Thread). Plywood_King 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield researcher 1,195 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 There were different rules for time periods. Graham won in 1962 based on the point system. The point system did not count out of state games. Graham's only loss in 1962 was to WV AAA Champion Bluefield. There was a system in the early years where the eastern champion played the western champion in the largest class which at that time was called Class A. Schools from class B and Class C would often play regional championship games when they could be arranged.. And then if it could be arranged the eastern and western champions would play. This is why you will see schools claim championships before 1970 in the smaller classes. Then there were no playoffs at all until 1965 and and before 1965 is when a point system was used but only undefeated teams were eligible and they must have been in Class A.. Again regional champions would play but only one round. If more than one school was undefeated co champions were declared. This lasted until 1969 in A and AA and 1971 in AAA. The only voting that went on was the regional committee would sometimes vote on the regional champion if there was no clear cut winner. I have never run across a school claiming a championship where there was not validity in the claim. So to make it clear. There WERE playoffs before 1970. They were controlled by the regions and not the VHSL until 1970. The reason there was only one round in the early years is the big schools did not want to give up their Thanksgiving day games that often would draw ten to twenty thousand fans in Norfolk, Portsmouth, Hampton, Newport News, Richmond and Fairfax County. In 1969 Maggie Walker and Armstrong High of Richmond drew 28,000 for their Thanksgiving weekend game. The VHSL did not keep track of champions until 1970. The late great Marshall Johnson went back and accumulated the list that you see in the VHSL record book but he only did the larger class. One day I may try to figure out the smaller classes since I do have a lot of the information available whenever I can take the time to organize it. Plywood_King, Liam McPoyle and Deleted Account 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield researcher 1,195 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 44 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said: There wasn't a consistant method to determine a champion. I believe it was mostly based on the votes of sportswriters across the state considering regular season results only. Example: Graham won the 1962 state championship with a 9-1 record. Though I have heard of schools trying to match-up top teams (e.g. East vs West) after the regular season for the title. I'm sure the voting method was extremely controversial. Marion's 1930 team was 10-1-1 and has a "state championship trophy"; however, VHSL recognized a different team that year. So yes, @Plywood_King, much like the AP-UPI-USAT annual polls debacle prior to BCA/BCF/CFP. (records per @Bluefield researcher Yearly Record Thread). Marion's record in 1930 was: They were the Class B champions 00-00 T Virginia High 26-00 W Pulaski 64-00 W Hillsville 46-00 W Rural Retreat 06-00 W Richlands 72-00 W Chilhowie 20-00 W William King (Abingdon) 40-00 W Galax 46-00 W George Wythe 00-06 L Saltville 40-07 W Appalachia (playoff game) 20-00 W Clifton Forge (playoff game) Saltville only lost one game but that was to Class C Glade Spring so the committee awarded the regional title to Marion. Clifton Forge defeated Fredericksburg to win the other half state championship. Marion then defeated Clifton Forge. The title is legit. Not the A champions but the B champions. Clifton Forge's record 06-31 L E. C. Glass (class A school) loss did not count against their record 00-06 L Lexington (Lexington was regional champ but declined to participate in the regional playoffs so 2nd place Clifton Forge accepted) 26-00 W Central High of Low Moor 06-00 W Greenbrier Military School JV 18-06 W Robert E. Lee Staunton 37-00 W Parry McCluer 31-00 W Valley of Hot Springs 08-06 W Covington 08-00 W Robert E. Lee Staunton 14-07 W Fredericksburg (playoff) 00-20 L Marion (playoff) Liam McPoyle, Deleted Account and Plywood_King 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said: There were different rules for time periods. Graham won in 1962 based on the point system. The point system did not count out of state games. Graham's only loss in 1962 was to WV AAA Champion Bluefield. Graham actually lost that year to Andrew Lewis (Salem) and Andrew Lewis was initially crowned champions. Later, however, it was discovered that Andrew Lewis had used an ineligible player and thus had to forfeit some games, including the Graham game. Graham was then declared State Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield researcher 1,195 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 The ineligible player was discovered before Andrew Lewis was declared champions. It came to light in late October. They appealed the ruling and then lost. The decision was actually announced at the Graham football banquet. They did not know until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plywood_King 516 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 14 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said: Marion's record in 1930 was: They were the Class B champions 00-00 T Virginia High 26-00 W Pulaski 64-00 W Hillsville 46-00 W Rural Retreat 06-00 W Richlands 72-00 W Chilhowie 20-00 W William King (Abingdon) 40-00 W Galax 46-00 W George Wythe 00-06 L Saltville 40-07 W Appalachia (playoff game) 20-00 W Clifton Forge (playoff game) Good stuff, thanks guys. It's certainly not a record, and if I'm not mistaken, Saltville had a very lengthy "unscored on streak" during this period, but 380-13 in a season is pretty dang impressive in any era. Liam McPoyle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam McPoyle 1,863 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 21 hours ago, Bluefield researcher said: There were different rules for time periods. Graham won in 1962 based on the point system. The point system did not count out of state games. Graham's only loss in 1962 was to WV AAA Champion Bluefield. There was a system in the early years where the eastern champion played the western champion in the largest class which at that time was called Class A. Schools from class B and Class C would often play regional championship games when they could be arranged.. And then if it could be arranged the eastern and western champions would play. This is why you will see schools claim championships before 1970 in the smaller classes. Then there were no playoffs at all until 1965 and and before 1965 is when a point system was used but only undefeated teams were eligible and they must have been in Class A.. Again regional champions would play but only one round. If more than one school was undefeated co champions were declared. This lasted until 1969 in A and AA and 1971 in AAA. The only voting that went on was the regional committee would sometimes vote on the regional champion if there was no clear cut winner. I have never run across a school claiming a championship where there was not validity in the claim. So to make it clear. There WERE playoffs before 1970. They were controlled by the regions and not the VHSL until 1970. The reason there was only one round in the early years is the big schools did not want to give up their Thanksgiving day games that often would draw ten to twenty thousand fans in Norfolk, Portsmouth, Hampton, Newport News, Richmond and Fairfax County. In 1969 Maggie Walker and Armstrong High of Richmond drew 28,000 for their Thanksgiving weekend game. The VHSL did not keep track of champions until 1970. The late great Marshall Johnson went back and accumulated the list that you see in the VHSL record book but he only did the larger class. One day I may try to figure out the smaller classes since I do have a lot of the information available whenever I can take the time to organize it. @Bluefield researcher, I can't thank you enough for sharing the wealth of information you have gathered over the years. I love local sports history but know just enough to confuse others. I read about how Marshall Johnson would work relentlessly to gather every score from across the state when he was with the AP....about how he spent his retirement years in the state library poring over microfilm researching Virginia high school sports...about his chronicling the prep history of schools, coaches, and players...about he would painstakingly research and update records after every season. It sounds like you, sir, and Mr. Johnson were cut from the same cloth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluefield researcher 1,195 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said: @Bluefield researcher, I can't thank you enough for sharing the wealth of information you have gathered over the years. I love local sports history but know just enough to confuse others. I read about how Marshall Johnson would work relentlessly to gather every score from across the state when he was with the AP....about how he spent his retirement years in the state library poring over microfilm researching Virginia high school sports...about his chronicling the prep history of schools, coaches, and players...about he would painstakingly research and update records after every season. It sounds like you, sir, and Mr. Johnson were cut from the same cloth. If there was one deceased person that I could sit down and talk with it would be Marshall Johnson. Liam McPoyle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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