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8 Man Football


bucfan64
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With the talk of PV STERLING folding and numbers generally down it is interesting to note that at the most recent regional A.D. meeting, the VHSL is exploring the future of 8 man fb in Virginia 

Thoughts?

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Ive argued for a few years that the small schools from SWVA(TW, TS, RC, TV, Hurley) plus some of the small schools from EKY(Harlan, Jenkins, etc) and maybe some of the small schools from TN(Hancock Co, etc) should drop VHSL football and form their own 8 man league.   There would be some issues but the competition would be better.

 

Single A west, why do you feel that way?   Ive never watched 8 man ball.  Just curious

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Give it about ten years it will happen or we will do with out and this may come off as a snowflake comment but vhsl might want to look at the KHssa and start classifying schools based on male populations instead of total pop.

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2 hours ago, redtiger said:

 

 

Single A west, why do you feel that way?   Ive never watched 8 man ball.  Just curious

It’s not the same, your missing skill positions. If you have 18 players come out and you have 14 that are flag football players than you shouldn’t field a 8 man team either.Some schools are having trouble fielding girls basketball teams. Would you watch 3on 3 in b-ball 

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1 hour ago, Single A west said:

It’s not the same, your missing skill positions. If you have 18 players come out and you have 14 that are flag football players than you shouldn’t field a 8 man team either.Some schools are having trouble fielding girls basketball teams. Would you watch 3on 3 in b-ball 

I mean...I have been watching Ice Cube's Big 3 basketball league...which is 3 on 3...lol

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Coach Dixon developed 8-man sandlot for the Galax Recreation Department several years ago.  It's been wildly successful in keeping kids interested who would have otherwise, dropped away because they weren't utilized much at the sandlot levels.  Some look at Galax having 27 kids on the varsity football team as something of a negative.  Dixon knows those 27 players will all contribute in some way.  Most schools, especially those in Class 1, would love to have 27 kids who are ready to contribute at the varsity level.  And that has been true for the duration of Dixon's time as the football coach at Galax.  His direct quote in the Galax Gazette following last weeks scrimmage with Mount Airy read "I've got more kids at this time of year than ever before in terms of I think we can play 23-24 kids on a regular basis, all over, rotating.  A lot of kids with the same skill-set.  Young in the right places, old in the right places.  The enemy of being great is being good.  We've had several years here where we've been good but we haven't been great.  We've got to make a change to be great and that's a hard sell to kids sometimes."

In part, Dixon is referring to kids (and parents) buying into the 8-man program.  It keeps more kids on the field rather than sandlot coaches playing their best 11 with a roster of 18.  Those remaining 7 players usually never participate beyond the sandlot level and it hurts football development in later years.  Imagine a sandlot team with "a lot of kids with the same skill-set."  The fastest kid, coaches kids or maybe the kid who has developed bit quicker at age 12 will be the one playing while the other 2 or 3 kids will be sitting.  In 8-man, if done properly, teams only have 10 to 11 players on the roster and every kid must play at least half the snaps in a game.  They all play and learn how to have value as a member of the team.  Some rules are tweaked but the fundamentals are still there.  The Galax varsity football program is a shining example of how it can have a "trickle up" effect.  Kids who would have likely fallen away, are staying in football.

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Mark wants the coaches to keep the kids interested by playing them all.  That also is some of the problem at lower levels that you touched on, some coaches want to pick the best players and not teach let’s say your worst 10. You have to teach all the kids and let them have fun along the way.

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12 hours ago, Grapeape said:

It's basically kickoffs getting returned for TDs again & again. Scores are like 84-77. 

Not true. While there historically has been much more scoring it isn't much different than the pinball machine games in 11 man that we have now.

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12 hours ago, Grapeape said:

It's basically kickoffs getting returned for TDs again & again. Scores are like 84-77. 

You wouldn't have to have kickoff's.  Just place the ball on the 20 or 25 yard line after a team scores and you would have 80 or 75 yards to go on offence to score.  That way you have a more interesting game and not as much scoring.  I lived in KY for a period of time and some of the feeder programs there used this concept and it seemed to work really well.  Just kids having fun learning the game and every player got to play in every game if they wanted to play.  I think this would be an interesting concept, and just as exciting to watch for the smaller schools.

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3 hours ago, Single A west said:

Mark wants the coaches to keep the kids interested by playing them all.  That also is some of the problem at lower levels that you touched on, some coaches want to pick the best players and not teach let’s say your worst 10. You have to teach all the kids and let them have fun along the way.

That's what I have grown to love about 8-man developmental football (sandlot levels).  Two coaches with 11 players on a roster equates to more fundamental instruction per kid.  An 11-man sandlot team with two coaches and 23 players would not allow the coaches to provide as much instruction per kid.  They concentrate on the best dozen and the rest end up quitting before high school.

Some dad's don't like it because it looks different but the fundamental game is the same.  Rather than 7 on the line, nobody covered-up allowed downfield, it's 5 on the line, nobody covered up downfield.  It has actually benefited Galax by having WR's learn at an early age, blocking is imperative.  I've actually found a remarkable number of dad's, at least locally, who complain about 8-man, have no clue about basic fundamental rules of football in general.  Like downfield eligibility (covered up).  8-man doesn't mean flag football rules where everyone but the center can go downfield for a pass. And we've had coaches actually attempt to send the guard downfield and then throw a temper tantrum when it's flagged.

But some seem convinced of something they actually don't understand. 

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33 minutes ago, 99Bama said:

Still low numbers turning out for this as of now.

The stigma of football has scared parents away from the game. They will still follow and cheer, but they don't want their kids playing. Tazewell's knock against football goes back to Coach Perry making kids choose between sports, and by choose I mean quit football. That's why out football number dwindled and little baseball number rocket. Hopefully, this will reverse some of the thought processes.

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44 minutes ago, Flanker87 said:

The stigma of football has scared parents away from the game. They will still follow and cheer, but they don't want their kids playing. Tazewell's knock against football goes back to Coach Perry making kids choose between sports, and by choose I mean quit football. That's why out football number dwindled and little baseball number rocket. Hopefully, this will reverse some of the thought processes.

It’s certaintly scared me away as a parent. 

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Football teams are not number 1 in concussions...I saw the following article last year and was surprised. 

EXCERPT:

Female athletes, in particular soccer players, suffer concussions at a “significantly higher” rate than their male counterparts, according to a study released this month by the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons.

In matched sports, girls were 12.1 percent more likely to sustain a concussion than boys, according to the report, which tracked concussions in a sport relative to total number of injuries from 2005 to 2015 using the High School Reporting Information Online injury surveillance system. In basketball, for example, concussions only accounted for 8.8 percent of boys’ injuries, but 25.6 percent of girls’ injuries.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/recruiting-insider/wp/2017/03/27/girls-soccer-has-highest-concussion-rate-of-high-school-sports-study-finds/

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44 minutes ago, 99Bama said:

Ryan do you think the advancement of the technology in helmets will ever catch up to the speed and physicality of the game or do you think rule changes is the only answer? 

I like to think it may catch up. But I’ve also accepted the fact that rule changes can and will happen. If th changes keep kids from trying to hit stick everyone and quit getting so many concussions, then I’m okay with it. Some aren’t. But I like that we are finally taking safety seriously. 

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21 hours ago, Single A west said:

It’s not the same, your missing skill positions. If you have 18 players come out and you have 14 that are flag football players than you shouldn’t field a 8 man team either.Some schools are having trouble fielding girls basketball teams. Would you watch 3on 3 in b-ball 

I would watch 3 on 3. Its better than not having a program at all or watching a team struggle every season 

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Scaling back equipment would do more to limit concussions than more advanced equipment would, IMO. As a player, if you know you are going to feel it every time you dish it out, it makes you more judicious. I’m not saying to take pads away, but more like keep advancing helmets but leave shoulder pads etc. at mid 90’s levels. Just my two cents.

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