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1 hour ago, CriticalNoise said:

Until appomattox come to town and beat us last year 😞

Regular season. 

it was overall like four years until the playoff game. But haven't lost a reg season home game in at least three years maybe more

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4 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Regular season. 

it was overall like four years until the playoff game. But haven't lost a reg season home game in at least three years maybe more

Haven't lost a regular season home game since Sullivan North in 2012.

Previous to the Appo semifinal, hadn't lost a home game since Gate City 2nd round playoffs in 2013.

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32 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Regular season. 

it was overall like four years until the playoff game. But haven't lost a reg season home game in at least three years maybe more

It was 30+ wasnt it? Either way thats an impressive streak!

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Well since last home regular season loss was 2012, it's been at least 25 straight regular season wins. I knew there was a home playoff loss more recently at home before Appo, couldn't remember if it was 2013 or not. Union_Fan noted it was a 2013 playoff game against GC. Its a 27-game home regular season win streak. 

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From my count, it was 28 straight home wins between GC loss and Appo loss. Won one home playoff game in 2014, three in 2015, one in 2016 and three last year. 

 

Since inception, Union is 40-8 at home by my count, including playoffs. Six of those were in the first two years. After 2012, Union has went 34-2 at home (GC playoffs in 2013, Appo last year). 

Should have NEVER lost the 2013 playoff game to GC. We romped them by 30 in regular season yet choked and lost by ten in the playoff game.

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The Union - Morristown West game was close in score only because Union put the football on the ground 3 times in the red zone. MW had around 100 yards or less of offense for the game. In general, football in upper East TN is pretty weak. You have an anomaly like Greeneville, who has tons of financial backing, great organization in the youth leagues, and will draw kids from around the county, Elizabethton, who is in 4A would be among the top teams in SWVA, but in general, programs like Dobyns-Bennett (legendary in their own minds), Science Hill, THS, and others are massive underachievers considering their enrollments. I told some of my DB fan coworkers back when DB moved up into the "Super 32", that it was the end of the 9 and 10 win seasons and that they would do well to keep their head above water. So far, that has been true. 

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On 8/17/2018 at 3:01 PM, BigWinners said:

So Union would potentially play Graham at Mitchell and I'm hearing Science Hill? Jesus Christ, talk about an OOC schedule.

Science hill is correct also.  unions dropping burton for Graham and Morristown for science hill.

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5 hours ago, JDHoss said:

The Union - Morristown West game was close in score only because Union put the football on the ground 3 times in the red zone. MW had around 100 yards or less of offense for the game. In general, football in upper East TN is pretty weak. You have an anomaly like Greeneville, who has tons of financial backing, great organization in the youth leagues, and will draw kids from around the county, Elizabethton, who is in 4A would be among the top teams in SWVA, but in general, programs like Dobyns-Bennett (legendary in their own minds), Science Hill, THS, and others are massive underachievers considering their enrollments. I told some of my DB fan coworkers back when DB moved up into the "Super 32", that it was the end of the 9 and 10 win seasons and that they would do well to keep their head above water. So far, that has been true. 

Someone else on this site who struggles with reading comprehension😩

I asked a very simple question. Nobody wants to answer it. Coach Turner loses his #1 QB. He makes a great decision, and puts the best athlete from BSG since Julius Jones, under center. Now, put Union in the shoes of Mo. West. How does Union's offense look? 

It took everything Union had, to win a close game against a middle of the road NETN team, who was on their 3rd string QB. I said in the post, that I still considered it an impressive win. I also have stated countless times, that Union is the measuring stick in 2A SWVA football. If you didn't notice(and judging by your response, you didn't) the discussion was about SWVA vs. NETN. Who gives a damn if SH, DB, and others "underachieve" against the Knoxville area teams in the playoffs every year? Let me guess....you believe that Union, or whoever the top SWVA 2A team is this year, could do better against the Knoxville area teams? 

Send me your contact info please. I have some oceanfront property in Kansas, that I'm looking to unload on some lucky fella!

 

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12 minutes ago, Bearcat Dad said:

Someone else on this site who struggles with reading comprehension😩

I asked a very simple question. Nobody wants to answer it. Coach Turner loses his #1 QB. He makes a great decision, and puts the best athlete from BSG since Julius Jones, under center. Now, put Union in the shoes of Mo. West. How does Union's offense look? 

It took everything Union had, to win a close game against a middle of the road NETN team, who was on their 3rd string QB. I said in the post, that I still considered it an impressive win. I also have stated countless times, that Union is the measuring stick in 2A SWVA football. If you didn't notice(and judging by your response, you didn't) the discussion was about SWVA vs. NETN. Who gives a damn if SH, DB, and others "underachieve" against the Knoxville area teams in the playoffs every year? Let me guess....you believe that the Union, or whoever the top SWVA 2A team is this year, could do better against the Knoxville area teams? 

Send me your contact info please. I have some oceanfront property in Kansas, that I'm looking to unload on some lucky fella!

 

My reading comprehension is fine. Union replaced Turner with an exceptional athlete who had zero QB skills and it left them with a very predictable offense. They had triple the offensive yardage that MW had, but the game was close in score only because Union put the football on the ground 3X in the red zone. Probably should have been about a 28-3 (MW score came in the closing seconds on a punt block) game. A school with an enrollment of over 1500 should never be losing a football game to a school with an enrollment of a little over 600. Who cares if DB, etc struggle against the Knoxville area teams? Who else are you going to judge them by? DB feasted on weak local competition for years to "build" the winningest football program in the state, yet in all of those years, they have zero state titles or even a title game appearance to show for it. Same for Science Hill. The AA competition in NET? Hampton, Happy Valley? North? No, NET is pretty damn weak in football. 

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22 minutes ago, JDHoss said:

My reading comprehension is fine. 

Nope

 

23 minutes ago, JDHoss said:

 Who else are you going to judge them by?

Dear God, man! So, according to you, because upper NETN teams lose to Knoxville area teams, that makes them weak and inferior to SWVA teams? You wear those special kind of blinders, don't ya?

Remind me again who the last team to beat Union at home in a regular season game was?

My closest friend on Earth, bleeds the BSG blood. He experienced a state title in the mid 90's from that area. He knows the difference between football in NETN and SWVA. I met a fine young member of this board, just this past Thursday from BSG. He understands the difference between the two.

It takes a special kind of homerism to say what you're saying. Plus, you keep avoiding the point of the original discussion. The other poster and I agreed to disagree on whether or not it would be a beatdown, not whether or not NETN was weaker than SWVA. You on the other hand, have given the rest of the fine people on this board a headache with your asinine reasoning behind your thoughts.

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10 minutes ago, Ryan4VT said:

Well...we had a SWVA vs NETN all-star game...and I could be wrong, but I don’t remember SWVA winning much. That should tell ya all you need to know. Best vs best, it was decidedly one way. 

Preach!

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The schools in NE TN are so much bigger, they are almost always better than most 2A teams around here. Sure there are outliers (and yes Union did really dominate MW everywhere but the scoreboard, but they were down to their QB in a much more QB dependent offense) but most years, schools like SH, DB, etc... rout the best over here. Pure numbers. 

 

DB wouldn't play GC for years bc there was no upside. Win? You're supposed to win and do it big. Stumble and lose? You get raked over coals. DB is extremely down now and I do think a good 2A SWVA team could beat them, but there's little doubt the talent gap is pretty wide because of population numbers. PV has had some success against the Sullivan North's of the world, but North is nothing compared to Science Hill

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1 hour ago, JDHoss said:

My reading comprehension is fine. Union replaced Turner with an exceptional athlete who had zero QB skills and it left them with a very predictable offense. They had triple the offensive yardage that MW had, but the game was close in score only because Union put the football on the ground 3X in the red zone. Probably should have been about a 28-3 (MW score came in the closing seconds on a punt block) game. A school with an enrollment of over 1500 should never be losing a football game to a school with an enrollment of a little over 600. Who cares if DB, etc struggle against the Knoxville area teams? Who else are you going to judge them by? DB feasted on weak local competition for years to "build" the winningest football program in the state, yet in all of those years, they have zero state titles or even a title game appearance to show for it. Same for Science Hill. The AA competition in NET? Hampton, Happy Valley? North? No, NET is pretty damn weak in football. 

 

I think BDs saying and correct me if I'm wrong, that the big schools in NE TN are much better, not Happy Valley or North. Those aren't the names being mentioned. We were discussing Science Hill and teams of that ilk, and they are much bigger and 99% of the time are better than teams from schools of 500-600 kids or smaller. 

there are outliers in almost any situation, but because of the population density and the sheer number of available good athletes, big NE TN football is better man. Could 2016 Appo beat 2016 DB? Absolutely. But that's an outlier, a very down program against a program in the midst of its best run ever.  Put DBs best team ever against Appos, who's is better? 

More high level D1 talent comes from NE TN than SWVA, shouldn't that end the argument?

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5 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

 

I think BDs saying and correct me if I'm wrong, that the big schools in NE TN are much better, not Happy Valley or North. Those aren't the names being mentioned. We were discussing Science Hill and teams of that ilk, and they are much bigger and 99% of the time are better than teams from schools of 500-600 kids or smaller. 

there are outliers in almost any situation, but because of the population density and the sheer number of available good athletes, big NE TN football is better man. Could 2016 Appo beat 2016 DB? Absolutely. But that's an outlier, a very down program against a program in the midst of its best run ever.  Put DBs best team ever against Appos, who's is better? 

More high level D1 talent comes from NE TN than SWVA, shouldn't that end the argument?

Thank you! You hit the nail on the head

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I'll interject my 2 cents FWIW.

NE Tenn does have better athletes as a whole than SWVA because they have more kids. More likely to find a 4 or 5 Star athlete out of 100,000 kids vs 25,000. That's simply the odds.

However, per capita, I agree with JDHoss, SWVA puts a better product on the field year in and year out for such small enrollments. There's not a doubt in my mind if you created an all star team comprising Union, Richlands, Graham and Va High (DB, Science Hill enrollment equivalent) they would beat the lights out of DB and Science Hill each and every year.

I don't think DB/Science Hill would beat most SWVA teams because they are simply better, but because they have more kids.

It may be a matter of semantics, but that's how I view it.

On a side note, it didn't take everything Union had to beat Mo West. Union dominated every facet of the game. They were getting 4-6 yards a carry, but you're not going to score a lot of points when you have 5 or 6 turnovers. One thing that surprised me about that game. Mo West had 88 or 89 players, but subbed very, very little. You would think they would have brought in fresh D lineman and RBs all game long, but never did. That told me that with all those kids on the sidelines, they still had few to choose from. 

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1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

 

I don't think DB/Science Hill would beat most SWVA teams because they are simply better, but because they have more kids.

 

I have agreed with and respected  99.9% of what I've seen you post on here in my couple years on this board. This statement, though, just makes no sense to me.

I stated my reason for saying what I said on an earlier post in this very thread, which is EXACTLY what you are saying.

The part that makes no sense to me, is that you say you don't think they are simply better but because they have more kids. The reason they ARE better, is because they have. more. kids.

I've also stated many times, that Union is the class of 2A in SWVA. We all have bias towards our team, but it is not a slight to Union, or any other team in SWVA, that teams just a few miles down the road are simply better.

1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

per capita

 That's no different than saying that North Dakota State, who is the premier D1-FCS program in the country, with an enrollment of 12,000+, is a better product than say, Alabama, the premier D1-FBS program in the country, with an enrollment of 32,000+. What is your opinion on the outcome of this game, even if it were played 10 times? That is the WHOLE REASON for a classification system to begin with.

The basis of the entire debate, was whether or not NETN football teams are better than teams from SWVA. The answer to this should be an easy yes to anyone who does not wear blinders, thick with the color of their favorite team.

You are right, it's a matter of semantics.

1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

 

On a side note, it didn't take everything Union had to beat Mo West. Union dominated every facet of the game. They were getting 4-6 yards a carry, but you're not going to score a lot of points when you have 5 or 6 turnovers. 

I thought better of your football acumen, before reading this part.

Please clear something up for me. Are you claiming that Union players didn't give everything they had in that game? I really don't believe you're saying that, but that is the way this part reads. If not, then you mean they had an off night.

So that night, Union moved the ball at will, until it mattered, when it was time to score. Why is it ok to say Mo. West didn't get Union's best in the game, but some Union faithul NEVER EVER address the fact that Mo. West had to play with their 3rd string QB? Seems like Mo. West had even less of their best to give Union that night. Mo. West did not have James Mitchell, sitting on their bench as their 3rd string QB, to put under center in an unplanned, emergency fix, to help a tough situation of the starting QB having an unfortunate injury.

The part that disappoints me the most about what you're saying, is that you are using stats as the basis for your reasoning. In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens went 5 STRAIGHT GAMES without the offense scoring a TD......5! Now, in your honest opinion, does that not seem like a stat of a team that's not very good, no matter the level? I'm sure I don't have to tell you, that they won the Super Bowl that year. There are literally countless games in the history of this great game, that prove that stats don't tell the true story of a game or even a team.

From high school to the NFL, the name of the game is to win. Yes, there are many great life lessons that can be learned in football, but competitors do not compete to lose....period!

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3 minutes ago, Bearcat Dad said:

I have agreed with and respected  99.9% of what I've seen you post on here in my couple years on this board. This statement, though, just makes no sense to me.

I stated my reason for saying what I said on an earlier post in this very thread, which is EXACTLY what you are saying.

The part that makes no sense to me, is that you say they don't think they are simply better but because they have more kids. The reason they ARE better, is because they have. more. kids.

I've also stated many times, that Union is the class of 2A in SWVA. We all have bias towards our team, but it is not a slight to Union, or any other team in SWVA, that teams just a few miles down the road are simply better.

 That's no different than saying that North Dakota State, who is the premier D1-FCS program in the country, with an enrollment of 12,000+, is a better product than say, Alabama, the premier D1-FBS program in the country, with an enrollment of 32,000+. What is your opinion on the outcome of this game, even if it were played 10 times? That is the WHOLE REASON for a classification system to begin with.

The basis of the entire debate, was whether or not NETN football teams are better than teams from SWVA. The answer to this should be an easy yes to anyone who does not wear blinders, thick with the color of their favorite team.

You are right, it's a matter of semantics.

I thought better of your football acumen, before reading this part.

Please clear something up for me. Are you claiming that Union players didn't give everything they had in that game? I really don't believe you're saying that, but that is the way this part reads. If not, then you mean they had an off night.

So that night, Union moved the ball at will, until it mattered, when it was time to score. Why is it ok to say Mo. West didn't get Union's best in the game, but some Union faithul NEVER EVER address the fact that Mo. West had to play with their 3rd string QB. Seems like Mo. West had even less of their best to give Union that night. Mo. West did not have James Mitchell, sitting on their bench as their 3rd string QB, to put under center in an unplanned, emergency fix, to help a tough situation of the starting QB have an unfortunate injury.

The part that disappoints me the most about what you're saying, is that you are using stats as the basis for your reasoning. In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens went 5 STRAIGHT GAMES without the offense scoring a TD......5! Now, in your honest opinion, does that not seem like a stat of a team that's not very good, no matter the level? I'm sure I don't have to tell you, that they won the Super Bowl that year. There are literally countless games in the history of this great game, that prove that stats don't tell the true story of a game or even a team.

From high school to the NFL, the name of the game is to win. Yes, there are many great life lessons that can be learned in football, but competitors do not compete to lose....period!

I believe that you're making something out of nothing. Honestly, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make in regard to the Mo West game.

Perhaps, had they been 100% healthy, they would have mopped the floor with Union. Perhaps, had Union been 100% healthy the score would have been 35-0 because we could have passed more and not had the fumbles. Mo West used the players they had. Union used the players they had. West's 2nd string QB did go down early, BUT he came back in the game the 2nd half. On THAT night Union was better. Had you been there, you would know that too. 

Your post would indicate that Union was lucky to win. In reality, Mo West was lucky the score wasn't 35-7. The week prior a Bear RB touched the ball 4 times and scored 4 TDs. That night he fumbled 4 times.

Mo West had 108 total yards of offense on 40 plays from scrimmage. 50 of those yards came on one long run, so that means Mo West had 58 yards of offense from the other 39 plays from scrimmage. That's less than 1.5 yards per play. Mo West also had a first down inside the Union 2 and settled for a field goal. 

And don't stats indicate the better team in most situations? I mean if Va High beat Tennessee High 7-6, but the stats showed Tenn High had 500 yards of offense, but had 8 fumbles and Va High had 40 yards of offense with a pick 6. Which team do you think was better?

This will be my last post on the topic.

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23 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

I believe that you're making something out of nothing. Honestly, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make in regard to the Mo West game.

Perhaps, had they been 100% healthy, they would have mopped the floor with Union. Perhaps, had Union been 100% healthy the score would have been 35-0 because we could have passed more and not had the fumbles. Mo West used the players they had. Union used the players they had. West's 2nd string QB did go down early, BUT he came back in the game the 2nd half. On THAT night Union was better. Had you been there, you would know that too. 

Your post would indicate that Union was lucky to win. In reality, Mo West was lucky the score wasn't 35-7. The week prior a Bear RB touched the ball 4 times and scored 4 TDs. That night he fumbled 4 times.

Mo West had 108 total yards of offense on 40 plays from scrimmage. 50 of those yards came on one long run, so that means Mo West had 58 yards of offense from the other 39 plays from scrimmage. That's less than 1.5 yards per play. Mo West also had a first down inside the Union 2 and settled for a field goal. 

And don't stats indicate the better team in most situations? I mean if Va High beat Tennessee High 7-6, but the stats showed Tenn High had 500 yards of offense, but had 8 fumbles and Va High had 40 yards of offense with a pick 6. Which team do you think was better?

This will be my last post on the topic.

Thats cool, man. I'm getting bored with the topic myself. Sometimes, people believe what they want, no matter what. I tried help you, at least, because I've always respected what you've posted here. I could tell that JDHoss was just a SWVA homer.

 

FYI....had you bothered to read the entire thread, you would have seen that I didn't introduce Mo.West into the discussion. They were used by jarhead, with whom I was having the initial debate in the first place. You entered the debate, learned a little something, and then left.

I'll give you some homework. Study on your stat argument for however long it takes, explain to the rest of the class why its sad😢, then try real hard to add something useful to your next post. I know some good, smart people from BSG. I believe you can do it!

Good luck to the Bears this year! In spite of a couple of fans, who have a warped sense of reality when it comes to football, I do hope the boys do well, and stay healthy.

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3 hours ago, Bearcat Dad said:

Nope

 

Dear God, man! So, according to you, because upper NETN teams lose to Knoxville area teams, that makes them weak and inferior to SWVA teams? You wear those special kind of blinders, don't ya?

Remind me again who the last team to beat Union at home in a regular season game was?

My closest friend on Earth, bleeds the BSG blood. He experienced a state title in the mid 90's from that area. He knows the difference between football in NETN and SWVA. I met a fine young member of this board, just this past Thursday from BSG. He understands the difference between the two.

It takes a special kind of homerism to say what you're saying. Plus, you keep avoiding the point of the original discussion. The other poster and I agreed to disagree on whether or not it would be a beatdown, not whether or not NETN was weaker than SWVA. You on the other hand, have given the rest of the fine people on this board a headache with your asinine reasoning behind your thoughts.

Teams like DB and Science Hill are better than teams from SWVA? Well no shit Sherlock. You're comparing schools with enrollments of 2200+ to schools with a little over 600 and saying they are better? Thanks Capt. Obvious.  You wanted to talk about Union barely getting by a mediocre MW team. I told you that the game wasn't nearly as close as the score indicated, which it wasn't. I'm talking about football in NETN being weak, which it is. Their playoff history is all the proof you need. I will say that football in SWVA is a shell of what it was in the past, and that's not going to improve with the current economic conditions. In years past though, the better SWVA teams played toe to toe with the NET team. I've seen the vintage PV team smack Cherokee, Elizabethton and THS around in scrimmages. I saw them throttle Sullivan North a couple of times. Gate City had 10-3 record against North. The last time GC and Dobyns-Bennett played, GC won 44-16 in a year that saw them outscore 5 NET opponents 206 - 16. 

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