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trumpet1988
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46 minutes ago, DB-6130 said:

Wow scrap the offense and fire the whole staff. Are we talking about Union or GC here? I guess the next thing is to start a petition and get Phil back on the sidelines. Reed is going to save GC and maybe Phil can save Union from going 8-2 or better every year. I personally think you have one of the best Head coaches in SWVA. 

I believe the guys above talking about scrapping the staff aren’t referring to Union. We know we have a great HC and wouldn’t trade him for anybody around. Trust me, nobody in BSG or Appy wants Phil in the mix. And we never said scrap the offense, just diversify. 

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51 minutes ago, DB-6130 said:

Wow scrap the offense and fire the whole staff. Are we talking about Union or GC here? I guess the next thing is to start a petition and get Phil back on the sidelines. Reed is going to save GC and maybe Phil can save Union from going 8-2 or better every year. I personally think you have one of the best Head coaches in SWVA. 

We do have a great head coach, program, and fan base. Don't think anyone is calling for that drastic of a change. All we are saying is when your average fan in the stands can predict the next play a huge majority of the time, how much easier is it going to be for a seasoned coach, that has watched hours of film, to prepare his team to stop Union's offense?

The 2015 playoff game against Glenvar was a perfect example of what is possible. No way we were running against that D Line 40 times and winning. We threw long, intermediate, short, had WR screens, RB screens, TE slants, QB options, QB draws, ran the T, etc... Glenvar couldn't adapt because they didn't know what was coming next. Granted, we were loaded with offensive talent that year, but I still think we have enough talent this year to diversify.

Maybe we were a little over confident against Ridgeview, underestimated them, I don't know, but I think that loss will only help us going forward.

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25 minutes ago, Grapeape said:

GC 8

Union 7

GC must be ready to play, because their coaches apparently feel so prepared that they have time to message me with threats on here. 

For those that had week 5 on the under for GC drama to fire up, congratulations and you can collect your winnings at the Hob-Nob during regular business hours. For the rest of us, I'm going to the concession stand, how's everyone like their hot dogs, and let me know if I you want regular or diet pop.

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4 hours ago, DB-6130 said:

Wow scrap the offense and fire the whole staff. Are we talking about Union or GC here? I guess the next thing is to start a petition and get Phil back on the sidelines. Reed is going to save GC and maybe Phil can save Union from going 8-2 or better every year. I personally think you have one of the best Head coaches in SWVA. 

Bill Belicheck and Nick Saban get criticized, often more so than others. Turners really became a great coach, but he isn't above reproach. No one is calling for his head, we're lucky to have him. But every team has issues and problems, Union just lost their first M7 game in forever, and we are discussing what Union could do to continue to improve

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4 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

As long as #43 is getting chunks on his off tackle carries, the PA off those would be tough to defend and is an easy pass to complete.  Just run flags with both TEs...that is a staple of most T Formation offenses.  Union hardly uses it, if ever.  The addition of the counter toss off the FB dive would be nice, too.  Both of 'em gain big yards if the D isn't honest.

I also believe there's more we can do out of the spread. Our concepts are all pretty basic right now, not a lot of complexity. We love corner routes and hitches, but not a lot of posts or slants. We've seen some double moves, but when teams are sending the house, someone will be open. Keep someone in the backfield to block, you'll have four eligible receivers being covered one on one, gotta believe someone can get open. 

 

the PA out of the T has so many options, but I don't blame the loss on anyone. Sure there are things we could have done better, but RV is very good and they were tough. 

still believe they got a favorable spot on the QB sneak on that 4th down 😛

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2 hours ago, Grapeape said:

GC 8

Union 7

GC must be ready to play, because their coaches apparently feel so prepared that they have time to message me with threats on here. 

Going for the 2pt conversion straight up or are we going to fake the XP? Or TD no XP, then get a safety? I’m interested here. 

And I could probably guess which “coach” that is. 

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This game won't be close.  Depends on how fired up GC comes out playing on if it's a blowout before halftime as well as what type of play calling Union has.  What I mean is come out and run what they always do or play around a bit to give more options to have to prepare for on film for teams down the road.  I don't know what coach it is you're talking about so just go ahead and shed the light on that situation.  

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I like teams that run more than one formation. I think GC run the I, T, and some shotgun against PV in 03. GC also came out in the single wing after halftime against Norton in 03. 

The spread seems to work well around here but when a team from this area makes a deep run in the playoffs it seems like old school does much better. 

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My senior year in 02, we ran the T, Power I, split backs, far and near sets, spread........we had many different formations we could go to with many different options in the backfield and at wide receiver.

Having many different formations is a plus, but like the above comment said, the smash mouth football seems to take teams deeper in the playoffs. It’s definitely two different styles of football.

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I’m not sure how to feel about the offensive situation. I know the offensive coaches have the ability to throw in some more complex systems because in 2015 the Union offense was dynamite. Of course you had some amazing athletes on that team, so take it with a grain of salt. I know this years athletes don’t match up to those, but I feel they should be capable of opening it up much more than they are.

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6 hours ago, Leatherhead Larry said:

Going for the 2pt conversion straight up or are we going to fake the XP? Or TD no XP, then get a safety? I’m interested here. 

And I could probably guess which “coach” that is. 

4 safeties. Our offense couldn't cross the street. 

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4 hours ago, Unionguy_2017 said:

I’m not sure how to feel about the offensive situation. I know the offensive coaches have the ability to throw in some more complex systems because in 2015 the Union offense was dynamite. Of course you had some amazing athletes on that team, so take it with a grain of salt. I know this years athletes don’t match up to those, but I feel they should be capable of opening it up much more than they are.

I tend to agree with this, but the coaches see the kids every day and know what they can, and more importantly cannot, do. I think maybe the staff can be too conservative at times, but you can't argue with results. 

But it's not just offense, defense as well. More looks, disguising more, hiding more looks, simply showing more exotic looks and reverting back to your basics after the snap but a lot of football is won and lost by creating confusion and hiding your plays with different formations and looks.

I do wanna add that in the modern game, you gotta be able to put speed on the field to combat spread looks. On a passing down, it makes sense on a theoretical level to take out the more run stopping LBs and bringing on more speed and athleticism with a CB or S if it's possible and if you have the personnel to do so.

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6 hours ago, BigWinners said:

I tend to agree with this, but the coaches see the kids every day and know what they can, and more importantly cannot, do. I think maybe the staff can be too conservative at times, but you can't argue with results. 

But it's not just offense, defense as well. More looks, disguising more, hiding more looks, simply showing more exotic looks and reverting back to your basics after the snap but a lot of football is won and lost by creating confusion and hiding your plays with different formations and looks.

I do wanna add that in the modern game, you gotta be able to put speed on the field to combat spread looks. On a passing down, it makes sense on a theoretical level to take out the more run stopping LBs and bringing on more speed and athleticism with a CB or S if it's possible and if you have the personnel to do so.

The strength of Union is there Line and there Big Fullback #20 adds some game changing speed but is not a back capable of 20+ carrys inside the tackles I think the T suits the personnel of this team. 

I THINK that the spread could help get #20 the ball in space a bit more but overall will negate what i feel are Unions offensive strengths.

It could be that by making the Spread there default passing formation that Union has neglected to fully develop the passing attack out of the T 

 

In my opinion the coachs do not need to scrap anything that they are doing but take the game and work on countering the steps that RV used against them (That others will no doubt mimic after reviewing game film) 

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I really don't think Union should worry to much about the offense, it will be just fine. The way the Mountain District is they cane just show up and be average and beat Lee, GC, Central and Battle. Abingdon will be a good test. Ridgeview is good and will just get better because they have a D1 running back and no one in else in the District does. Mitchell continually bailed out Union last year in games because he was the best athlete on the field and no Union has to settle for just being good instead of great. (no shame in that) The T works GC used it for 40 plus years and won nearly 500 games running it.

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5 hours ago, Counts said:

The strength of Union is there Line and there Big Fullback #20 adds some game changing speed but is not a back capable of 20+ carrys inside the tackles I think the T suits the personnel of this team. 

I THINK that the spread could help get #20 the ball in space a bit more but overall will negate what i feel are Unions offensive strengths.

It could be that by making the Spread there default passing formation that Union has neglected to fully develop the passing attack out of the T 

 

In my opinion the coachs do not need to scrap anything that they are doing but take the game and work on countering the steps that RV used against them (That others will no doubt mimic after reviewing game film) 

 

The T does limit your options as a QB, because you have three guys in the backfield if you don't motion anyone out and two TEs most of the time, so it does make more sense to change personnel when you wanna throw the ball for no other reason than creating space. If you have a good OL, you should be able to execute out of any formation, but blocking in a T-style attack is very different from the spread so maybe the kids aren't as comfortable but the issue is not just changing formations but throwing out different looks presnap to create the illusion of doing something different. It's macho to think well they know where we are going but we are gonna go there anyway, but don't make it hard on yourself. If you can freeze those linebackers with motion or a formation shift, it'll help the offense.

Defense was the worry preseason, but to limit RV to 27, your offense has to be able to at least counter that bc RV is gonna score 40 against most people. I don't think RV is far enough ahead right now this season that Union couldn't beat them if they met again, but RV really showed that Union can be attacked on offense. The most successful plays for the offense were downfield passes. RV was constantly attacking on defense, there were a lot of times when you could see nine guys were coming but it's rough to run a play the defense knows when you're asking a RB to break two tackles or beat two men in the open field in the gap. 

I thought Union did as well as possible against Adkins, it's rare that I've seen a kid develop so much in a year. Last season, he was a skinny speedster that Union stopped pretty easily. This year, he's a LOAD but still possesses incredible speed. 

If it was just Adkins, there's a good chance Union might have won. But dang that little East side transfer, Sexton, was KILLER. The QB played well don't get me wrong, a couple huge runs on third and long and he constantly got the ball out but it seemed like every time Union had momentum, Sexton makes a play that keeps the defense on the field. 

This is a RV team that is right now, the Region D favorite. I'm not sure they are there just yet to win it all, but there are no glaring holes in that team. I guess if you can shut down Adkins and still be able to cover everyone out wide and get constant pressure you can beat them, but that's easier said than done. 

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5 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

My favorite play since 1997

Because you're an old fogey. 

I prefer the RPO simply because it gives you options. It takes more to run it, you gotta have a smart QB, a running back who's capable, a good OL and weapons outside, but any time you have the ability to attack the defense at all levels, you have the advantage. 

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41 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

 

The T does limit your options as a QB, because you have three guys in the backfield if you don't motion anyone out and two TEs most of the time, so it does make more sense to change personnel when you wanna throw the ball for no other reason than creating space. If you have a good OL, you should be able to execute out of any formation, but blocking in a T-style attack is very different from the spread so maybe the kids aren't as comfortable but the issue is not just changing formations but throwing out different looks presnap to create the illusion of doing something different. It's macho to think well they know where we are going but we are gonna go there anyway, but don't make it hard on yourself. If you can freeze those linebackers with motion or a formation shift, it'll help the offense.

Defense was the worry preseason, but to limit RV to 27, your offense has to be able to at least counter that bc RV is gonna score 40 against most people. I don't think RV is far enough ahead right now this season that Union couldn't beat them if they met again, but RV really showed that Union can be attacked on offense. The most successful plays for the offense were downfield passes. RV was constantly attacking on defense, there were a lot of times when you could see nine guys were coming but it's rough to run a play the defense knows when you're asking a RB to break two tackles or beat two men in the open field in the gap. 

I thought Union did as well as possible against Adkins, it's rare that I've seen a kid develop so much in a year. Last season, he was a skinny speedster that Union stopped pretty easily. This year, he's a LOAD but still possesses incredible speed. 

If it was just Adkins, there's a good chance Union might have won. But dang that little East side transfer, Sexton, was KILLER. The QB played well don't get me wrong, a couple huge runs on third and long and he constantly got the ball out but it seemed like every time Union had momentum, Sexton makes a play that keeps the defense on the field. 

This is a RV team that is right now, the Region D favorite. I'm not sure they are there just yet to win it all, but there are no glaring holes in that team. I guess if you can shut down Adkins and still be able to cover everyone out wide and get constant pressure you can beat them, but that's easier said than done. 

Agree IMHO the key to any good offence is the ability to attack the defense in several areas with the same look so the Backers and DBs were never 100% sure of what they are seeing until it happens. The T can do that 

 

As far as RV goes the combo of Adkins and Sexton is tough on a D if the QB can make the D pay for playing the run to hard. I would like to see more of Adkins split out of motion (It caused a huge coverage mismatch as well as opening the middle of the field up to the QB Draw)

 

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1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

Because you're an old fogey. 

I prefer the RPO siat all levels, you have the advantage. mply because it gives you options. It takes more to run it, you gotta have a smart QB, a running back who's capable, a good OL and weapons outside, but any time you have the ability to attack the defense

The counter toss is a beauty though.  No one runs it anymore though.  I dont believe Appy ever ran it because they ran a different version of the T than what we did.   Trap them to death and once they suck in, a good fake on the trap leaves the outside wide open.  Its  a simple play as with many of the T but they work like any other offense.  A streaking HB down the middle can really take the top off the D  in the T as well.

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Every year there are those games, not ready, not up ect. Some of the coaching staff spoke about this before the game "I JUST DONT THINK WE ARE READY",sometimes you get used to winning by just showing up, well the kids from RIDGEVIEW WERE VERY READY,and it showed. I have heard that this weeks practice was about blocking and tackling , good old fashioned football.This past FRIDAY at RIDGEVIEW might have been the best thing for the BEARS, because if this would have been during playoff time ,we would have been rolling out the basketballs.Use it as a learning lesson and strap it up because no matter how dowm GATE CITY is,they will play us tuff.

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8 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

The counter toss is a beauty though.  No one runs it anymore though.  I dont believe Appy ever ran it because they ran a different version of the T than what we did.   Trap them to death and once they suck in, a good fake on the trap leaves the outside wide open.  Its  a simple play as with many of the T but they work like any other offense.  A streaking HB down the middle can really take the top off the D  in the T as well.

We always ran a counter trap/sweep, opposite side guard and tackle pulled, guard took first contact, tackle would be the lead blocker. We ran it in JV one time, as the pulling tackle I got to run in the open field in front of our RB and just toss little DBs out of the way. So rewarding.

 

Union runs somewhat similar, fake the inside trap or dive and then toss it to the wing on the opposite side. 

I like the RPO out of the T. Send your best receiver in motion pre snap, QB either hands off up middle or pulls it out and then targets the motion back either in the flat or on a go route, kinda like you described

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18 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

The counter toss is a beauty though.  No one runs it anymore though.  I dont believe Appy ever ran it because they ran a different version of the T than what we did.   Trap them to death and once they suck in, a good fake on the trap leaves the outside wide open.  Its  a simple play as with many of the T but they work like any other offense.  A streaking HB down the middle can really take the top off the D  in the T as well.

It leaves the outside wide open with a lead blocker for the back.  I never knew of Appy to run it, either.  The FB Trap or Blast sets it up and one or the other should be a staple of any run based offense, IMO.  You get that counter toss in the hands of a fast back and that's 3-4 big plays per game.

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39 minutes ago, sup_rbeast said:

It leaves the outside wide open with a lead blocker for the back.  I never knew of Appy to run it, either.  The FB Trap or Blast sets it up and one or the other should be a staple of any run based offense, IMO.  You get that counter toss in the hands of a fast back and that's 3-4 big plays per game.

They ran it to perfection.Chris Clark would be gone

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22 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

I dont believe Appy ever ran it because they ran a different version of the T than what we did.

What is strange is that in the years before Tom Turner took over the Appy program, they ran the same exact version of the T that you guys ran...they had the same coach.

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