wheeler 0 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 The discussion starts around the 3 best centers of all time. Russell, Chamberlain and Jabbar. Olajuwon is 4th on center list. I have Moses Malone ahead of Shaq. The list also has Jordan, Bird, Magic, Jerry West and Oscar Roberston. Also Julius Erving, Pete Maravich, Kobe, Lebron and Tim Duncan. Do you add John Havlicek, Rick Barry, Elvin Hayes, Bernard King, Kevin McHale, Walt Frazier, Elgin Baylor? Would this be a good list to start with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestjohn 90 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 How about Karl Malone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Kinda relevant, but I would offer up the 1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers as the all-time best combination of talent on one team. That starting lineup -- Dr. J, Moses Malone, Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney, and Bobby Jones -- only lost 18 games all season (including the playoffs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler 0 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokie1Pokie 350 Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 Add Bob Pettit to the list. He's the most underrated player in NBA history, but played in the W. Chamberlain era and was overshadowed historically. For his career, he averaged 26.4 ppg, 16.2 rebounds per game, and 3 assists per game, 2 time MVP and 10 time NBA All-First Team. Those numbers above are crazy when talking about an entire average for a career, not just 1 season. #BBN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 12:39 AM, wheeler said: January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years. That Sixers group was definitely fun to watch -- especially if you were a Sixers fan (which I was at the time). I didn't personally witness the '92 Richlands state championship game. I was away at college then and had to stay and take the Graduate Record Examination on the exact date that the Blues captured the title. And yes, the amount of information that folks have to contribute and are willing to share here is pretty unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublue 939 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 Didn't want to start a new thread and the title did reference NBA Players. Found this tweet to be interesting... VHSL Athletics @VHSL_ Virginia High Schools have produced 4 No. 1 overall picks in the NBA Draft. @BHSOfficialHCS's Allen Iverson(1996), @MauryHigh's Joe Smith(1995), @OPJackets's David Robinson (1987), @HarrisonburgHS's Ralph Sampson (1983)! great state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 1/20/2019 at 12:39 AM, wheeler said: January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years. On 1/22/2019 at 8:54 AM, RichlandsAlum said: That Sixers group was definitely fun to watch -- especially if you were a Sixers fan (which I was at the time). I didn't personally witness the '92 Richlands state championship game. I was away at college then and had to stay and take the Graduate Record Examination on the exact date that the Blues captured the title. And yes, the amount of information that folks have to contribute and are willing to share here is pretty unique. Funny that someone with 4 posts is trying to tell someone with 1,444 posts how great this place is! Welcome, wheeler! We've been around for 20 years, in one iteration or another, glad you finally found us! Ryan4VT and Deleted Account 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWinners 1,643 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 Malone is overrated. Hes barely a top 5 all time PF. My list: PG: Magic Oscar Robertson Isaiah Thomas Steph Curry John Stockton Hon. Mention- Steve Nash, Clyde Frazier, Chris Paul Shooting Guard: Mike Kobe Jerry West Dwayne Wade Allen Iverson Small Forward: LeBron Bird Durant Dr. J Elgin Baylor Power Forward: Tim Duncan Charles Barkley Dirk Karl Malone Kevin Garnett Centers: Bill Russell Wilt Chamberlain (could easily be #1) Shaq Kareem Hakeem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 Moses averaged a double-double for 15 straight years (16 if you count ABA). The PFs in NBA history who have done that is Moses Malone...and that’s it. Sure, he left the game 4 years too late, but the dude was a guaranteed double-double from the time Vietnam ended until the Persian Gulf conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWinners 1,643 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 18 hours ago, UVAObserver said: Moses averaged a double-double for 15 straight years (16 if you count ABA). The PFs in NBA history who have done that is Moses Malone...and that’s it. Sure, he left the game 4 years too late, but the dude was a guaranteed double-double from the time Vietnam ended until the Persian Gulf conflict. Duncan did it 13 straight years, even during his decline he never managed fewer than 8.9 RPG until his final year while he pulled down 7.3 RPG in 25 MPG. Career PER of 24.2 in a much different area against better competition game in game out. five titles, two MVPs, three Finals MVPs, 10 time first team All-NBA, 8 time first team All-Defense,15 AS games, 7th all time in rebounds, sixth in blocks, 17th in points, 14th career in PER (Moses-35th), 3rd in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 7th in win shares, 6th in VORP. And I won't count all the second team All NBA and All Defense. maybe I misread, Moses FOR SURE deserves more praise, i would take him over Malone, but I thought You were saying he was more deserving than Duncan, who IMO is too five all time. Jordan, Bron, Duncan, Magic and either Wilt, Russell, Kareem or Shaq. Tim Duncan>>>>>>>>Kobe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 15 > 13, as I said. 😉 Duncan has the fortune of playing for one of the 3 best coaches in the game’s history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokiebird7 1,416 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 34 minutes ago, UVAObserver said: 15 > 13, as I said. 😉 Duncan has the fortune of playing for one of the 3 best coaches in the game’s history. You think Malone is a better player than duncan? Just making sure I'm reading this right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Hokiebird7 said: You think Malone is a better player than duncan? Just making sure I'm reading this right Statistically, Malone was FAR superior and it’s not even close. The argument with championships is a bit unfair, because Malone got saddled with the bad fortune of coming up during the Celtics/Lakers era. You had a bunch of owners and GMs in that era who were bonafide idiots. There’s actually a thing called the “Ted Stepien Rule” because Cleveland’s owner/GM kept trading his 1st round pick to the Celtics every single year (not protected, and Cleveland sucked so badly that it was always a top-5 pick. Moses played for Houston (made a conference finals) and Philadelphia (made 2 conference finals) in that era. Name me 1 other player from the ‘81 Rockets without looking. Duncan came up in an era where collective bargaining pretty much ensured there’d be no “super team” like the Bulls for the next 15 years. As long as you surrounded him with decent talent, he would give you 21-11 and you’d bulldoze the s*** sandwiches of teams in the Western Conference that were around after the Lakers’ demise. Anyone have fond memories of those Detroit/San Antonio finals? History’s going to remember Duncan as the better player because of the titles, the same way some people incorrectly think John Elway was a better QB than Dan Marino. BigWinners 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokiebird7 1,416 Report Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just asking cause I thought I read it right...I watched both play and not YouTube videos and IMO and IMO only they were both good but I think duncan was a good but better all around player...but not gonna argue about it and start an entire Jordan-LeBron argument on who is better...I respect your opinion just disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWinners 1,643 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 hours ago, UVAObserver said: Statistically, Malone was FAR superior and it’s not even close. The argument with championships is a bit unfair, because Malone got saddled with the bad fortune of coming up during the Celtics/Lakers era. You had a bunch of owners and GMs in that era who were bonafide idiots. There’s actually a thing called the “Ted Stepien Rule” because Cleveland’s owner/GM kept trading his 1st round pick to the Celtics every single year (not protected, and Cleveland sucked so badly that it was always a top-5 pick. Moses played for Houston (made a conference finals) and Philadelphia (made 2 conference finals) in that era. Name me 1 other player from the ‘81 Rockets without looking. Duncan came up in an era where collective bargaining pretty much ensured there’d be no “super team” like the Bulls for the next 15 years. As long as you surrounded him with decent talent, he would give you 21-11 and you’d bulldoze the s*** sandwiches of teams in the Western Conference that were around after the Lakers’ demise. Anyone have fond memories of those Detroit/San Antonio finals? History’s going to remember Duncan as the better player because of the titles, the same way some people incorrectly think John Elway was a better QB than Dan Marino. Lol okay, whatever you say. Far superior? You're so, so wrong. Malone played 22 seasons, TD 19. Malone: 3x MVP 1x Finals MV P 11 time all All League 8th most games 7th most mins 3rd REB 25th blocks 2nd most turnovers Ortg-113.5 86th Drtg-101.5 Off W/S- 118.6 14th Def W/S- 101.5 LOLOL WS-179.1 14th VORP-46.7 38th 1455 games career line: 20.3/12.3/1.3/0.8 22 PER (35TH) Duncan 15x AS 3x Finals MVP 5x Champ 15x All NBA and All DDef 2x MVP 12th min 7th rreb 6th blocks 24.2 PER (14TH) Drtg-96.5 (3rd) Ortg -110 Off W/S- 25th Def W/S- 2nd wS-7th VORP-89.3 6TH 19/11/3.0/2.2 19 Yrs Duncan>Malone, it's not close. Duncan did it against much tougher comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swva_havok_fan 1,261 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 Careful @UVAObserver... Nobody wins an argument with @BigWinners. He is always right. Hell, even Johnny Cochrane with the Chewbacca defense couldn't win a case against BW. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvtne216 278 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 16 hours ago, UVAObserver said: 15 > 13, as I said. 😉 Hey, speaking of 15.... Deleted Account and Ryan4VT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, rvtne216 said: Hey, speaking of 15.... 27 > 0. 😂 RCITYHOO and rvtne216 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 10 hours ago, BigWinners said: Lol okay, whatever you say. Far superior? You're so, so wrong. Malone played 22 seasons, TD 19. Malone: 3x MVP 1x Finals MV P 11 time all All League 8th most games 7th most mins 3rd REB 25th blocks 2nd most turnovers Ortg-113.5 86th Drtg-101.5 Off W/S- 118.6 14th Def W/S- 101.5 LOLOL WS-179.1 14th VORP-46.7 38th 1455 games career line: 20.3/12.3/1.3/0.8 22 PER (35TH) Duncan 15x AS 3x Finals MVP 5x Champ 15x All NBA and All DDef 2x MVP 12th min 7th rreb 6th blocks 24.2 PER (14TH) Drtg-96.5 (3rd) Ortg -110 Off W/S- 25th Def W/S- 2nd wS-7th VORP-89.3 6TH 19/11/3.0/2.2 19 Yrs Duncan>Malone, it's not close. Duncan did it against much tougher comp. What an absurd justification. One, the competition was objectively FAR superior during the Malone era. With the Rockets, he had to battle the Lakers. They had Kareem (HOF, all-time points leader), M. Johnson (HOF, top 5 all-time player), Worthy (HOF), McAdoo (HOF). They had a HOFer backing up a HOFer. With the 76ers, he had to battle the Celtics. They had Bird (HOFer, top 5 all-time player), McHale (HOF), D. Johnson (HOF), Walton (HOF), and Parish (HOF). They could literally play 5 HOF at once. And he beat the Lakers once and the Celtics once! I don’t even have to show that this was pre-expansion, which by its own nature dilutes the talent pool. That’s preposterous that you’d use that as any justification, and it really damages your whole argument. Two, PPG in the NBA never topped 101.0 in Duncan’s era. PPG never dipped below 101.4 in Malone’s era. It’s two different eras! Offense was the priority in Malone’s era, and he lit it up while rebounding (a defensive contribution) better than anyone at his position in NBA history. BTW, he did make 2 NBA all-defense teams. Trying the dismiss Malone because his defensive win-shares were low ignores the fact that there were 10 more possessions per game in that era, and that defensive philosophy flourished with the rules changes in the mid-90s that helped Duncan thrive. Three, touting the number of awards Duncan has (15-12 all-NBA) relative to Malone wholly ignores that Malone spent 4 years in the ABA (1 all-ABA), and lost 2+ years to a broken foot. In terms of MVPs, Malone has more, two of those coming on a team with Dr. J. Ask yourself this: does Duncan win more than 1 title if you switch him with Malone? No, and they very easily could have lost the ‘83 title to boot. Does Malone win more than 5 if switched with Duncan? Considering San Antonio had some real offensive woes with Duncan (never won consecutive titles), even in a depleted Western Conference, it’s arguable he could have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hokiebird7 1,416 Report Share Posted June 25, 2019 How many people here actually watched Malone play when he was playing and not clips? Just curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWinners 1,643 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 15 hours ago, UVAObserver said: What an absurd justification. One, the competition was objectively FAR superior during the Malone era. With the Rockets, he had to battle the Lakers. They had Kareem (HOF, all-time points leader), M. Johnson (HOF, top 5 all-time player), Worthy (HOF), McAdoo (HOF). They had a HOFer backing up a HOFer. With the 76ers, he had to battle the Celtics. They had Bird (HOFer, top 5 all-time player), McHale (HOF), D. Johnson (HOF), Walton (HOF), and Parish (HOF). They could literally play 5 HOF at once. And he beat the Lakers once and the Celtics once! I don’t even have to show that this was pre-expansion, which by its own nature dilutes the talent pool. That’s preposterous that you’d use that as any justification, and it really damages your whole argument. Two, PPG in the NBA never topped 101.0 in Duncan’s era. PPG never dipped below 101.4 in Malone’s era. It’s two different eras! Offense was the priority in Malone’s era, and he lit it up while rebounding (a defensive contribution) better than anyone at his position in NBA history. BTW, he did make 2 NBA all-defense teams. Trying the dismiss Malone because his defensive win-shares were low ignores the fact that there were 10 more possessions per game in that era, and that defensive philosophy flourished with the rules changes in the mid-90s that helped Duncan thrive. Three, touting the number of awards Duncan has (15-12 all-NBA) relative to Malone wholly ignores that Malone spent 4 years in the ABA (1 all-ABA), and lost 2+ years to a broken foot. In terms of MVPs, Malone has more, two of those coming on a team with Dr. J. Ask yourself this: does Duncan win more than 1 title if you switch him with Malone? No, and they very easily could have lost the ‘83 title to boot. Does Malone win more than 5 if switched with Duncan? Considering San Antonio had some real offensive woes with Duncan (never won consecutive titles), even in a depleted Western Conference, it’s arguable he could have. A depleted West? LOLOLOLOL. Shaq, great Kings teams, the Mavs, etc... Duncan had Robinson, Malone had Erving and later on Barkley. Duncan was playing Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, Weber, AI, LeBron, KG, T-Mac, Wade, later on Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Kidd, I could go on. Duncan>Malone anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge would agree. Go read some opinions, all the most knowledgeable basketball guys have TD over Malone. You also fail to understand metrics, they adjust for pace of pay. For titles, Duncan beat Ewing, LeBron, Wade, Allen, Kidd, Mutumbo, Bosh, all HOF, and had to escape the West gauntlet of Kobe, KG, Dirk, Nash, etc.... The fact you claim the West depleted shows me this isn't worth my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichlandsAlum 678 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 17 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said: How many people here actually watched Malone play when he was playing and not clips? Just curious I did. Although I was only about 10 years old at the time, I took an active interest in the NBA (along with a lot of other people) when Magic and Bird came into the league. But everybody was already aware of Moses Malone by then. He was an absolute beast in the early 1980's. Pretty much put Houston on his shoulders and carried them to the 1981 Finals. And he was the missing link that allowed the 76ers to briefly break the stranglehold that the Celtics and Lakers had on the league when he moved to Philadelphia. I will always argue that the 1983 Sixers were the very best team in the history of the NBA -- but that's only true because of Malone. And the team was never the same after his ankle injuries the following year. That's the kind of impact that I observed. Deleted Account 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 30 minutes ago, RichlandsAlum said: I did. Although I was only about 10 years old at the time, I took an active interest in the NBA (along with a lot of other people) when Magic and Bird came into the league. But everybody was already aware of Moses Malone by then. He was an absolute beast in the early 1980's. Pretty much put Houston on his shoulders and carried them to the 1981 Finals. And he was the missing link that allowed the 76ers to briefly break the stranglehold that the Celtics and Lakers had on the league when he moved to Philadelphia. I will always argue that the 1983 Sixers were the very best team in the history of the NBA -- but that's only true because of Malone. And the team was never the same after his ankle injuries the following year. That's the kind of impact that I observed. And that’s the sort of impact I’m talking about. Duncan wouldn’t have have carried that ‘81 Rockets team to the finals, or allowed that ‘83 76ers team to come 6 points shy of going “fo-fo-fo”. Duncan was on teams that had Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Leonard, and ultra 6th man, Big Shot Bob Horry (the first 2 of which stayed around forever). Malone made 2 Finals and won 1 title with a Julius Erving that was in the twilight of his career, and he played with a very young Barkley that only really found himself when Malone had been sapped by injury. That’s virtually it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCITYHOO 110 Report Share Posted June 26, 2019 21 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said: How many people here actually watched Malone play when he was playing and not clips? Just curious I did and he had a great game but lost in 2 or 3 OT's to Larry and the Celtics. I should remember how many OT's but it was a bus trip and I had a slight buzz, but Larry the Great had 48, I think it was 48 cause I lied I was hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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