Huntercav

Just so I can put this to bed about exactly what the disagreement involves, a point of clarity is needed on my part. The discussion was about who was being recruited, not pennants on the wall (I repeated that notion and didn’t introduce it). Here’s how things are currently working in my family, again with real bills coming from Radford University that we write checks for in December and August-no hypotheticals! We sat down with both children at a very early age and stressed the importance of a college education. Attending college was NOT optional in this household. Both children were given options of their choice based on what we could afford-not necessarily where they wanted to go (For the record, I encouraged Hunter to not attend Marshall because I had, so there were no MOO-U or WVU pennants on walls). ANY option beyond that and the option of declaring themselves an independent student and getting financial aid to attend was on the table for them. Otherwise, they have no financial obligation for their education. I am experiencing the same thing with my daughter concerning Pharmacy School. She has several choices including ETSU, Campbell, and UVA Wise, but she loves Shenandoah. We can’t afford it, so she can get financial aid above what we can assist her with to attend and have our blessings. The decision is mutual not exclusive to either party and that my friend is my final answer! I don’t know many kids who had carte blanche or exercised it with this decision. So, a blanket statement that a child should determine where they will attend school without any other practical variables in play is asinine at best. Should they receive full financial aid or grants or scholarships, it would seem to me that your theory is one I would more readily endorse, but would hope they sought input with such an important choice. This important decision was not addressed any differently than any other important choices for either of my children. So, I am not sure that discord hasn’t been manufactured by semantics or just a lack of communication through paragraphs of jabberwocky on this forum’s format. At any rate, sorry we missed that round of golf this year! Hope springs eternal for next year. I am headed off to visit family and attend the WVU/K-State game, so I’ll park the clubs for a couple of months. Thanks for the well wishes for Lucas. He’ll do just fine with whatever decision he AND his family arrives at for his college destination. He is blessed to not have to rely on football to get his education, yet another variable THAT I NEVER MENTIONED IN ANY OF MY RESPONSES-LOL!

I didn’t chime in on this thread to praise or bury Caesar. I never envisioned it becoming a discussion of Billy and Bobby or Sally and Sue. I never intended to impugn anybody’s opinion of football or college choices because they played or attended, or didn’t. I did intend on giving my real life experiences as a former player and parent of former player involved in the process. I wasn’t writing in broad, sweeping generalizations; I was writing about real people in real situations. On an overly personal note <for which I alone am to blame for mentioning and did edit and delete a thread> I added some information about a current family member for whom I care deeply. Yes, he has an option of attending an Ivy League School that he has zero interest in attending. This “offer†was the residual result from a visit on a return trip home from Boston College, not a planned thing that he grew up with worshiping or seeking; it literally dropped by in the mail unexpectedly. Was it considered? Sure, but not favorably given some other options. You see, his pennant on the wall was VT and his dad placed that seed there to bring forth the coveted fruit because both parents are graduates. To debate whether he’s a fan or not exclusively because his parents shaped the dream is not worthy of further discussion nor is it appropriate for me to do so. What followed on threads was a flow of opinions that appeared to question how anybody could turn down such an “opportunity†as those provided at an Ivy League School without any real concept of what the offer involves. This was dovetailed with a side-bar of discussing who should make the decision of which college a given child attends under their individual circumstances. Sprinkle in some argument about what I typed or didn’t type and VIOLA! I merely injected some facts, not opinions, to make this situation make personal than make believe. In one post it’s about being “impartial†and helping kids make the choice because no teenager knows what is really best for them and then it’s ultimately up to them to make the choice? Those two opinions are not on the same continuum for me and they are not any I ever espoused here or elsewhere. The idea that travel shouldn’t matter is part fairy dust and part idealistic at best. It does matter for all involved parties, but should not be prohibitive if it impedes the child’s “reasonable†desires to attend college A or B. Expectations were discussed, but what is feasible or reasonable was never broached. There are far too many variables, chief among them finances, to adequately discuss all that comes along with college and it only serves to further hijack a thread that is already WAY off topic-mainly due to yours truly! I offered what I thought was a unique prospective because I wasn’t waxing on about what I would or should do in a hypothetical sense; I was sharing what I did and the experiences of my own children and family members. Any discussions about nephews or other family members is certainly relevant, but is not the same as one’s own children-PERIOD. To believe otherwise is to not have children or be completely delusional or both. You and I have shared some private information, so you can understand that I saw a TON of impartial parents, usually through Child Protective Services, Foster Care, Adoption or all the above. I too have several nieces, nephews, former players, friends, teammates with children, etc., who have made many life altering choices that I was a part of that process with them. Some are about placement of loved one’s in facilities and/or being disconnected from life support and few are any fun for anybody. Never once was it the same emotion as those involved with my own children. I probably sat down before I had children or when they were young and moaned on about what I would do when ___ (fill in the blank from dating to driving to choosing a school). I can share that the dynamic changes with time, but the love and responsibility never waver. Those issues are best done privately-not on an open forum such as this. I guess the main point, again if I had any real points at all, was not to judge any kid being “recruited†for choosing this school, the other school, or not playing at all. I made that mistake myself until that chicken came home to roost. I walked a mile in my own shoes and ate stale rotten crow, or chicken as it were, and it wasn’t much fun. I wish you all the very best on gathering information about local kids being recruited and helping others, including perhaps your own children, with any decisions in their lives.

6-Cat> I guess you disagree with others on the part about kids not knowing what is best for them because he stated that parents should take a secondary role in the decision. Not one single place did I suggest, type, or endorse the concept that parents should be "impartial" and be in an "advisory role." Those two concepts are not concurrent in the least. Further, not once did I suggest that someone hasn't experienced it first hand with their own child that they had nothing to bring to the table. With hope and realized answered prayer, that same seven year old child will one day drive or be driven to a college that hopefully they love; one that meets their needs not their parent's needs. Having to pay for said college certainly helps make some of those decisions a tad easier. I agree 100% with your closing paragraph, which is in some small way, what I was attempting to address. And that is, there is an entire constellation of influences and dynamics which should go into the process and travel does matter if it matters to the child! Best of luck in your endeavors, as mine have worked out just fine with both children. They had more than a dad who had been there done that in their corner and for that, we are all blessed!

UVA-O Thanks for the supercilious left handed compliment before you attempted to attack my response like a misguided missile in the desert. Your summary leaves the rails as you rail against an imaginary idea that someone attempted to put “anybody in their place†or you suddenly have the answers about college football live, which by the way Duke separates their ENTIRE freshman campus independent of athletes and it’s not JUST dorms and NO other program we visited segregated freshman in any way shape or form. What is this bizarre verse about “not once did you mention this, that or the other thing?†Not once when I fashioned that response or this one did I intend for them to meet your expectations, standards, or ideas of content, or be all inclusive about the life of a college athlete. That’s on you not me to fill in all of those blanks. Insulted? Convince you of anything? My, what grand hubris! That was not my intent so I apologize for any misunderstandings in the content, but I don’t apologize for your misrepresentation or intent. My adding the ingredients of having played and went through the process with my son you referenced had ZERO to do with discrediting anybody who didn’t play and everything to do with first-hand information from somebody who did. It was intended to be the same as discussing medical issues with a doctor, legal issues with a lawyer, or Big Mac’s with a McDonald’s employee. I guess one could ask an MD about Big Mac's and quote it was the gospel or quote an employee at my work place about politics. It was a point of reference-only this and NOTHING MORE! I take it you didn’t play so that hit an unintended nerve? Or you simply stereotyped the FACTS to meet yet another imaginary enemy on the way to you being an absolute authority on the topic? Funny you mention 105 young men, as its more like 135 around most all programs and 15 coaches, including GA’s and support staff, and the families of all those players and individuals, which you NEVER ONCE INCLUDED IN YOUR MESSAGE. Get the idea of that empty point and fall out of love with yourself on this issue-please you’ll feel better. They will attend your weddings and hold your hand the rest of your life just like church members do, good neighbors, co-workers, and the list goes on and on. That same brotherhood exists within most all groups from an average college student to someone serving in the military to fellow members on a message board. Sheesh, I even had them with my Kansas City Chiefs electric football set in the early 70’s! Lose-lose? As opposed to a win-win of having everything from wake up calls, meals, to friends, to schedules, laid out for you? Talk about being disconnected in that area! I never suggested it was lose-lose that’s your perception and the days of G-Gods playing athletes died years ago! Short of finding the mythical Oracle at Delphi, I guess some folks could trust you or me on the issue, but we are all different with different experiences, expectations and such. It’s up to each of us individually, hopefully with support of friends, family, and spiritual influences <which I further hope are Christian> to make the most informed decisions available to us. I truly hope that few, if any, are consulting a message board for them! So, dissect, analyze and retort until the cows come home; this is not a pissing contest. The subject in my original reference is my FAMILY and I take it personally. To suggest that his support system wouldn’t be advising him to make the best decisions, juxtaposed to the idea that’s it’s a no brainer because that would be concurrent with your idea or somebody else's that Ivy League Schools are on the road to Shambala, is a matter better left to die in Cyberspace and the gross disconnect between my point and your defensive preception of said point.

Sorry for contributing to how this topic got off track from kids being recruited to various schools turning into the tired stuff about "I would have ____ (fill in the blank) to go here or there or anywhere in-between, or Nobody should pass up that opportunity or this opportunity, or Biff or Buffy went to State U and they did well." There is no “disconnect†on my part at all. I have been through the process individually, with my son, and with family members. This certainly doesn’t make what I say any more valuable than if I hadn’t, but my experiences are not pie in sky hypothetical scenarios. They are not concepts or theories; they are real! I disagree that parents should be "impartial" or only in "an advisory role." I believe the decisions involved with choosing colleges should be done collaboratively with one's child. Adding the complications that come along with participating in a sport at the college level in this particular case add ingredients that aren’t otherwise in play had everything to do with my response and nothing to do with the role of a parent. We can agree to disagree on that one. The decisions are financial, logistical, practical, and cultural, you name it. There is a HUGE disconnect between a statement endorsing the idea that teenagers don't know what they want so we should guide them or make sure they do the right thing (which of course is our opinion of what's right) and being impartial? Not to be a smarty pants, but how many children have you guys sent off to college? It's a lot easier to think about driving someone esle 10 hours and dropping them off than your own child. I have two in college, so it's not about living vicariously through them, some other relative, or trying to flex my intellectual muscles on a message board about what role a parent has in a child picking E&H or UVA-Wise over any other school (and forgive my ignorance about where in the world that comparison came from?)-it's REAL; it’s personal. With all due respect, did you play a sport in college? I have, so I don't speak in the hypothetical or generalities, I speak from my personal experiences with the realization that it doesn't make me an expert and may or may not apply to today’s landscape. I visited several schools in the surrounding area (mostly ACC schools) during my son's recruitment. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on them, but it showed me the "Football side" of each one of them. Not to insult or enlighten anybody, but how many folks on here know that Duke has a "freshman campus?" Yes, they are segregated them from the upper classmen. Have you seen a dorm room at Duke? I hadn't until the recruitment experience and it was clear why Duke isn't for every kid who may have the opportunity to attend as a FOOTBALL player. Before somebody types who cares, consider that most of us would agree on the perceived value of an education from Duke. What about Liberty? Have any of you ever stepped foot on their campus? Have you been inside their "football program?" Their weight room? Their dorms? They were hands down the best we saw anywhere! How about Wake Forest? One visit to their tiny weight room or with their former OL coach and you'd know in a minute why he's their former OL coach! How about the schedule at UNC? Up at 6 a.m. and to bed by 11 p.m. if you're lucky. Lifting, eating, class (unless you're Julius Peppers I guess), practice, study hall, and light out. And the next day and the next day bring the same. In between are calls from home, home sickness, relationships, girlfriends, siblings, etc. I guess my point, if there is one, is to shed some light on all the dynamics involved with choosing a school for "football" reasons and not just for academic reasons or bragging rights about where one attended school, where their kid went, where their cousins’ sister’s daughter went, or the cultural/educational value of being exposed to a life outside SW Virginia. Any statement about why a kid wouldn't choose a school that he's only getting in because of football doesn't need defending. The aforementioned "scholarship" offer has everything to do with getting into the school and nothing to do with academics or being happy or staying at the school. Football simply opens some doors that wouldn't otherwise be available, but there are consequences behind each and weighing them isn’t easy. Most of these kids never get the opportunity to play for the home town team or the school of their dreams (I didn't either); most never considered all the possibilities that exist at school A or B; most want to enjoy their senior season and year of school and would rather talk about their homecoming date than scholarship offers. Heck, life is hard enough for kids these days without the dynamic of added pressure from ‘being recruited.†There's nothing wrong with pressing the keyboard to espouse our opinions on what any kid should or shouldn't do about playing or not playing or choosing school A or B, or what we think we would have done given similar possibilities, but to pretend that there are any absolutes in these areas is be disconnected at best. I wish you well in your future endeavors in this arena and if you survived all of it congratulations! In closing, please don’t copy this entire pile of drivel to respond. If you would like to continue a conversation, send me a PM and we can. If you disagree with the contents of my message, that’s fine with me, but you most likely haven’t been through the process. If you agree, bless you for reading this mess!

It's Columbia, outside NY City, and Ivy League Schools don't offer "full rides." When he got the offer, it was accompanied by an application for financial aid. So, he can go and play football while he borrows about $25K a year. He can do much better with some of the other irons in the fire considering he's not crazy about the cultural differences between NY City and Hillsville. I went through similar situations with my son, Hunter Grubb, a couple of years ago. I had no idea how recruiting worked until his involvement with it. The casual fan has no idea (and I would have put myself in that group before an up-close personal look at it) what these kids are asked to do to play these days. I was called to the cafeteria at Greenbrier East and told where I could go (three whopping choices and none were D-1). There is a huge gulf between those days and today! It's very easy to say what you think you would do until it involves your child (or relative) and their future. There is ZERO reason to attend any school anywhere that a kid doesn't feel they want to spend the next five years of their life.

The kid at Fort Chiswell is 6'6" 298 junior Coleman Thomas. He has an offer from WVU. Our family member Lucas Holder, a 6'5" 270 OT/DE at CCHS, has been getting looks from mutliple D-1 and FCS schools. I edited this message because my pervious messages may have "hijacked" the original purpose of the thread and that was to discuss kids who are being recruited-not the merits of their choices or personal opportunities. They, not I, would be a better source of any future disclosures on that topic.

I started to not respond, least I lose my status as a "Pee Wee" with increased number of posts and become a "junior" or some other scout type rank that may indeed entitle me to a... wait for it... badge down the road! After all, that lends itself to some credible if "one" is so inclined to monitor such things. FWIW, I loved CS and Bill Murray in particular. I will climb out on a thin/underdeveloped branch and assume that the love of high school sports, or football in particular, was the carrot that brought most of us to this forum. I joined when my son started playing JV ball at CCHS six years ago. I found a source of much needed support here when an injury ended his playing days a couple of years ago. I think once we get past the "stuff" of which school we attended or have an affiliation with to some extent, most of us are more alike than different. It can't be the color or size of my font, so it must be how I use it that distracts some readers? I would just be happy to learn to use the spell check-LOL. Yes, I see it in the upper right corner, but it doesn't work.

No, there never really was anything worthy of conversation or continued conversation between two fellow members expressing their opinions on this topic. However, you missed the meat of your conclusions with the link you provided. Go back one page and "one" can see that "one didn't make an assumption" of anything; I read your comments and they were: "Probably because that isn't true" in regarding to districts not wanting Franklin County. Here's the masterpiece of my objection: "One point I wished to make is that the Seminole Schools are not actively avoiding Franklin County. The emphasis on the pronoun NOBODY {sic} struck me as all inclusive and would subsequently be incorrect." What one {insert Keith J. Grubb} discerned from those comments is that the author was attempting to share fact not opinion. So, it is I who owes you a half hearted apology for making that assumption. I will continue my exercise of scanning the board for opinions and facts and not posting as much regarding my facts or opinions. Rest assured that would be careless on my behalf. After all, I am not emasculated by my "pee-wee status" on this forum.

As my 22 year old daughter would say: "What ev" You didn't state your opinion as your opinion, you stated it as FACT. I am at least your age or older, so maturity is a refreshing concept on a message board. It is also refreshing that you can hold your tongue, uh finger on typing, any tidbits of any potential "inside information."

@RichlandsAlum: That was the point I was trying to make a couple of weeks ago concerning Franklin County, but you were convinced that my statement about "nobody wanting Franklin County" was not true. I figured you had some inside information that the rest of us weren't privy to having, but it turns out that you were simply wrong and retracted your earlier assertion. Boy, all this "stuff" is indeed a mess!

@dukey: Again, no agrument that Grayson County's football program hasn't seen much of a decline due to not sustaining any semblance of success outside the Mt. Empire District (although the talent level has fallen off from several kids going on to play at small colleges and Chris Shreve playing at VT and briefly in the NFL). I was attempting to address all of their programs, as in plural-not just the football program. You are 100% correct on your assessment of their football status, both on the field and within the school system. The girls basketball teams just rebounded from some VERY ugly seasons; the boy's basketball program saw a nice spike a couple of seasons ago where they were competitive beyond the Mt. Empire, but have fallen back to the pack at bit (without the Rodgers brothers they would be very average to type the least); baseball has gone from State Championships and contending to not getting out of their own District with many Championships and getting shelled most everywhere not in the MED (although Galax just won a state championship in baseball with virtually no bench); boy's golf is totally irrelevant (again, while Galax just keeps on winning). Track? Tennis? They didn't even have enough kids participating to compete in many events in both sports on both sides of the isle (girls and boys). IMHO, unless or until parents, folks in the community, and the School Board's Central Office have to make a better commitment to supporting athletics or the struggles will continue (and probably get worse). Most schools which struggle in their football programs, struggle in all areas. The same types of dynamics are occurring here in Carroll County. I am not stating my opinion as fact, so it doesn't hurt my feelings to be wrong.

LOL on 'bus lag" and they may have to stand up going home as their rear-end may be too sore to sit on it for the return trip! I'd say a big ol' pay back is coming in this one, but it's tough to handicap high school football!

No, I didn't take it that we were in disagreement at all! I thought it was possible you knew a little more than I did (and you probably do!) on the situation. I do think it's sad how their programs have declined, but I don't have a dog (or kid) in the fight!

I am neither an expert nor resident of Grayson County (I live in Carroll, but have worked off and on in Grayson County for the last 20 years), but I have followed their programs (or lack there of) and attended games for years. The decline with their programs, maybe the glaring exception being baseball, has been steady over the last several years. The over the cliff stuff coincided with the last Superintendant of Schools, who left after this past year. I would suggest that VERY few in the community supported her or her lack of support for sports. I agree 100% that things, including facilities, have been neglected for years, but the community still supports the school through attendance if nothing else. Their recreation league has improved over the last 6-7 years, so the future may not be bleak, but it was mostly neglected for many years (conflicts with Fries and apathy by the former Director mostly). Just I had suggested with issues at Carroll County, it will take more direct involvement from the community working collaboratively with the school (and especially the School Board). A constructive way to voice displeasure with the state of affairs may be to attend a School Board or Board of Supervisors meeting? Probably not as issues do indeed run silent and deep and there's NO way those folks don't already know the issues!