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Ryan4VT

TazCo Cuts Middle School Sports and more

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On 6/23/2018 at 10:28 PM, Ryan4VT said:

Then what is the plan? Since you have inside info. 

Two new schools, 6th-12th in both of them. One between Tazewell and Graham possibly at the Blue Stone and one between Tazewell and Richlands, county owns land in between there somewhere! Tazewell County East and Tazewell County West

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28 minutes ago, Bulldogs52 said:

Two new schools, 6th-12th in both of them. One between Tazewell and Graham possibly at the Blue Stone and one between Tazewell and Richlands, county owns land in between there somewhere! Tazewell County East and Tazewell County West

Then how do you divide Tazewell? Everyone west of Lincolnshire goes one way and east goes the other? 

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42 minutes ago, Bulldogs52 said:

Two new schools, 6th-12th in both of them. One between Tazewell and Graham possibly at the Blue Stone and one between Tazewell and Richlands, county owns land in between there somewhere! Tazewell County East and Tazewell County West

Good idea.  Now find me the $80,000,000-$100,000,000 it’s going to take to build these two schools.

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33 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

Good idea.  Now find me the $80,000,000-$100,000,000 it’s going to take to build these two schools.

Depending on infrastructure improvements required for new school construction in the areas where the new schools could be built, you may be understating the total cost a bit.  Highway improvements and utility improvements necessary for permitting for new school construction can run in the tens-of-millions-of-dollars.  Add that to building construction and you could be looking at well over $100 million for two school sites!

Ask Galax how shortsighted they were in considering everything entailed in new school construction!

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30 minutes ago, sixcat said:

Depending on infrastructure improvements required for new school construction in the areas where the new schools could be built, you may be understating the total cost a bit.  Highway improvements and utility improvements necessary for permitting for new school construction can run in the tens-of-millions-of-dollars.  Add that to building construction and you could be looking at well over $100 million for two school sites!

Ask Galax how shortsighted they were in considering everything entailed in new school construction!

Well they did manage to build a new interstate that dead ends in the Cluck and Hut parking lot in Tazewell. So I guess there's a start. 

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1 hour ago, 99Bama said:

Well they did manage to build a new interstate that dead ends in the Cluck and Hut parking lot in Tazewell. So I guess there's a start. 

As is the case with most SWVA localities, water, sewer, storm and electrical would likely need significant upgrades before a new school would be permitted.  If roads and streets surrounding the proposed school site are sufficient, you're ahead of the game.  The utilities are something Galax never considered.  But they didn't listen to those telling them to look into it before making any decisions either.  Now, they have a 54 acre parcel they paid 270k for they can't give away. 

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22 hours ago, swvafbrespect said:

I dont see the varsity coaches not being paid.  I read the article did not say that but did mention the 300,00 in cuts. If so it seems that the Tazewell coaches are the most dedicated because not one has resigned and all are coaching for free

I would resign if I was a coach, no matter how dedicated I to the team or kids. Say the coach takes kids to away game and something should happen to one of the kids! That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen on said coach!

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31 minutes ago, Bulldogs52 said:

I would resign if I was a coach, no matter how dedicated I to the team or kids. Say the coach takes kids to away game and something should happen to one of the kids! That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen on said coach!

I'm not sure the current coaching salary of +/- $5000.00 will cover said lawsuit either though. 

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51 minutes ago, Grapeape said:

The school system's insurance likely doesn't cover volunteers, opening prospective coaches up to massive liability. How does this impact Graham's new stadium? 

It’s the town of Bluefield building it, not the TCSB! It’s still gonna be like Mitchell Stadium, TCPS will have a fee to pay!

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1 hour ago, Ryan4VT said:

I like how this was just skirted around. 

Yeah, if we can't find 3 million to help school system keep operating at status quo & pay coaches,  athletic directors, etc. I doubt TCSB will find anywhere near the funds to even build one school much less two.  One word, MESS! 

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11 hours ago, Gridiron60 said:

Yeah, if we can't find 3 million to help school system keep operating at status quo & pay coaches,  athletic directors, etc. I doubt TCSB will find anywhere near the funds to even build one school much less two.  One word, MESS! 

Don't forget, Wise County schools did it.  There had to be some sort of loan or grants to fund their project.  Ridgeview built one of the nicest high schools in SWVA.  If you neve been there, you should see it.  It's very nice and they have some of the best facilities around.

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3 hours ago, Falcon Mania said:

Don't forget, Wise County schools did it.  There had to be some sort of loan or grants to fund their project.  Ridgeview built one of the nicest high schools in SWVA.  If you neve been there, you should see it.  It's very nice and they have some of the best facilities around.

Dickenson County financially crippled itself building Ridgeview.  There’s obviously loan/grant funding, but I’m sure most of that was on a match, and Dickenson County pretty much exhausted itself achieving it.  Not the example I would use...

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3 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

Dickenson County financially crippled itself building Ridgeview.  There’s obviously loan/grant funding, but I’m sure most of that was on a match, and Dickenson County pretty much exhausted itself achieving it.  Not the example I would use...

Dickenson County got close to 100,000 million from the Core of Engineers for flood proofing, similar to the town of Grundy. The remainder of 15 million that Dickenson County had to come up with has crippled the county plus the operating expenses.  On a side note Buchanan County has close to 60 million on table from the core to flood proof a couple of schools or build.  Trouble is , politics can not decide to consolidate!!!

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22 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

Dickenson County financially crippled itself building Ridgeview.  There’s obviously loan/grant funding, but I’m sure most of that was on a match, and Dickenson County pretty much exhausted itself achieving it.  Not the example I would use...

Regardless, it is the only example we have of consolidation in SWVA.  Wise County and Dickenson County have done it and it appears to be the wave of the future for rural school systems with dwindling numbers throughout the coal fields.  I'm not saying it will happen, but it seems like school systems are leaning more and more to the option.  

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I was watching an interesting HBO segment featuring Joe Maddon on Youtube last night.  First of all, Maddon is as intellectually gifted and cerebral as they come.  The piece followed Maddon into his hometown of Hazelton, PA.  Going back a couple of decades, the town had begun to deteriorate and decline.  Schools were closed and consolidated with neighboring schools destroying traditional community pride and rivalries. 

What struck me in the piece is when Maddon started discussing neighborhoods and communities being tied together through the local schools (5:50-6:50 in the video).  Maddon said in the piece about his childhood arch-rival high school being closed, "The fact that we had those traditional rivals was legitimate.  The Thanksgiving football game was nasty. It was fabulous!  No-more.  It's self-destructive behavior when you subtract those kind of traditional events from a community".  He correlates this "consolidation" of communities and schools to rises in crime and destructive behavior. 

I would encourage anyone to watch this piece.  It's well worth the 25 minute investment in time.

 

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Wise county is not a good example of fiscal responsibility when it comes to school consolidation. The county went on a spending spree with new schools and a capitol improvement program that was utterly irresponsible. The county postponed the reckoning by postponing the interest payment- at great cost- followed by a tax increase this year. In coming years the county will have significant tax increases to pay the construction debt. The proponents of consolidation lied to the public about tax increases and significantly misrepresented part of the county's revenue flow. You cannot save money by building new schools unless you make compensating cuts within the school system to absorb the cost, which most school systems are reluctant to do.

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Interesting synopsis, thanks for sharing. The school board wants to point fingers at supervisors but most of the board members have held their posts for several years. The truth is they are not forward thinkers, not planners, not creative thinkers. I know for a fact a lot of hardback textbooks used in high school are available digitally, some even free from the state. Yet, we keep forking out money on the obsolete. They are all basically good stand up people but most are clueless. 

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The question is how does states around us continually build new schools? KY, WVA, NC, SC do it and are they really better off financially? I think it comes to the above post and forward thinking. Building are not going to last forever without major overhauls. But both supervisors and school boards do not plan for those items. Schools get to a point of being patched for so many years that when there is no choice but to build there is no money. Ad declining enrollment and our economy is makes for hard times. Just wanted to make a comment

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42 minutes ago, swvafbrespect said:

The question is how does states around us continually build new schools? KY, WVA, NC, SC do it and are they really better off financially? I think it comes to the above post and forward thinking. Building are not going to last forever without major overhauls. But both supervisors and school boards do not plan for those items. Schools get to a point of being patched for so many years that when there is no choice but to build there is no money. Ad declining enrollment and our economy is makes for hard times. Just wanted to make a comment

I'm not familiar with WV, KY, TN and SC.  The quick, simple answer for NC.....debt!  Generational, chocking, crippling debt!  The town my brother lives in outside of Charlotte has built 3 elaborate new schools since 2012 ranging in cost from $65 million to $98 million.  My brothers great-great-grandchildren will still be repaying that debt.  I believe the total cost was in the neighborhood of $245 million.  The county also spent additional money on a series of public parks linking each of the 3 school properties together.  The entire schools/park property is an incredibly beautiful space but is it really necessary?  Will it attract more people to move to the area to raise tax revenue to make that expense worthwhile?  I'm not sure but that's a huge debt service for a town of 28,500.

In February 2016, Charlotte - Mecklenburg County Schools signed a $2 Billion Dollar agreement to build a series of schools around the county over the next 10 years.  I get Charlotte is huge and continues to grow, but $2 billion dollars is an astronomical figure!

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46 minutes ago, sixcat said:

I'm not familiar with WV, KY, TN and SC.  The quick, simple answer for NC.....debt!  Generational, chocking, crippling debt!  The town my brother lives in outside of Charlotte has built 3 elaborate new schools since 2012 ranging in cost from $65 million to $98 million.  My brothers great-great-grandchildren will still be repaying that debt.  I believe the total cost was in the neighborhood of $245 million.  The county also spent additional money on a series of public parks linking each of the 3 school properties together.  The entire schools/park property is an incredibly beautiful space but is it really necessary?  Will it attract more people to move to the area to raise tax revenue to make that expense worthwhile?  I'm not sure but that's a huge debt service for a town of 28,500.

In February 2016, Charlotte - Mecklenburg County Schools signed a $2 Billion Dollar agreement to build a series of schools around the county over the next 10 years.  I get Charlotte is huge and continues to grow, but $2 billion dollars is an astronomical figure!

Not trying to pick a fight or be a major smart a--, but this does seem to be a good time to interject an observation about public debt.

If the functionality of the proposed schools is maintained for as long as our great-great-grandchildren will be alive, why is it unreasonable to finance the construction of those facilities in such a manner that they will share in the cost of them?  Of course, from a literal standpoint that isn't likely to happen -- most traditional issues have a limit of 30 years for repayment.  In terms of scale, I don't know how far out of whack that $2 billion dollars is for a market of the size and nature of Charlotte-Mecklenburg.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not a fan of debt (and I'm currently on track to make my own organization debt free by 2026).  But for major capital improvements, there are many facets to that discussion.  And if a community truly values public education, debt for schools is a concrete political example of "putting your money where your mouth is."

Reading between the lines, I assume that sixcat's brother lives in Mooresville.  I've been gone from that area for a while but based on my understanding of that community's demographics and economic trends, I don't think an additional debt load of $245 million is going to place a huge financial burden on Mooresville.

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1 hour ago, RichlandsAlum said:

Not trying to pick a fight or be a major smart a--, but this does seem to be a good time to interject an observation about public debt.

If the functionality of the proposed schools is maintained for as long as our great-great-grandchildren will be alive, why is it unreasonable to finance the construction of those facilities in such a manner that they will share in the cost of them?  Of course, from a literal standpoint that isn't likely to happen -- most traditional issues have a limit of 30 years for repayment.  In terms of scale, I don't know how far out of whack that $2 billion dollars is for a market of the size and nature of Charlotte-Mecklenburg.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not a fan of debt (and I'm currently on track to make my own organization debt free by 2026).  But for major capital improvements, there are many facets to that discussion.  And if a community truly values public education, debt for schools is a concrete political example of "putting your money where your mouth is."

Reading between the lines, I assume that sixcat's brother lives in Mooresville.  I've been gone from that area for a while but based on my understanding of that community's demographics and economic trends, I don't think an additional debt load of $245 million is going to place a huge financial burden on Mooresville.

You touch on a great point: it’s a matter of scale and economy.

 

I am by no means an an expert on Mecklenburg County, NC, but the size of Mecklenburg County rivals Fairfax County, VA.  Fairfax County Public Schools’s budget for FY 2018-2019 is $2.8B dollars.  Presuming that Mecklenburg County Public Schools is of relatively similar scale and economy, $2B over 10 years isn’t farfetched.  It’s probably well within the scope of capital improvement plans that assuredly exist.  A repayment of that scale is MAGNITUDES easier (despite the high figures) than the mess Dickenson County, VA got itself into by grossly overextending itself to consolidate.

 

I would be here all afternoon writing the reasons why, but imagine a modest increase in property tax.  Raising real property taxes in Tazewell County by $.01/$100 generates about $280K in revenue in the County.  Raising real property taxes in Mecklenburg County would almost certainly generate exponentially more.  There’s so much more “play” in figures there than here.

 

In the public sphere, “debt” is not an evil word in and of itself.  “Debt” when coupled with “where the Hell is this money coming from?!” is evil.  

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