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wheeler

NBA history best players

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The discussion starts around the 3 best centers of all time. Russell, Chamberlain and Jabbar. Olajuwon is 4th on center list. I have Moses Malone ahead of Shaq. The list also has Jordan, Bird, Magic, Jerry West and Oscar Roberston. Also Julius Erving, Pete Maravich, Kobe, Lebron and Tim Duncan. Do you add John Havlicek, Rick Barry, Elvin Hayes, Bernard King, Kevin McHale, Walt Frazier, Elgin Baylor? Would this be a good list to start with? 

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Kinda relevant, but I would offer up the 1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers as the all-time best combination of talent on one team.  That starting lineup -- Dr. J, Moses Malone, Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney, and Bobby Jones -- only lost 18 games all season (including the playoffs).  

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January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years.

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Add Bob Pettit to the list. He's the most underrated player in NBA history, but played in the W. Chamberlain era and was overshadowed historically. For his career, he averaged 26.4 ppg, 16.2 rebounds per game, and 3 assists per game, 2 time MVP and 10 time NBA All-First Team.  Those numbers above are crazy when talking about an entire average for a career, not just 1 season.

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On 1/20/2019 at 12:39 AM, wheeler said:

January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years.

That Sixers group was definitely fun to watch -- especially if you were a Sixers fan (which I was at the time).  I didn't personally witness the '92 Richlands state championship game.  I was away at college then and had to stay and take the Graduate Record Examination on the exact date that the Blues captured the title.  And yes, the amount of information that folks have to contribute and are willing to share here is pretty unique. 

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Didn't want to start a new thread and the title did reference NBA Players.  Found this tweet to be interesting...

VHSL Athletics @VHSL_

Virginia High Schools have produced 4 No. 1 overall picks in the NBA Draft.
 
@BHSOfficialHCS's Allen Iverson(1996),
@MauryHigh's Joe Smith(1995),
@OPJackets's David Robinson (1987),
  @HarrisonburgHS's Ralph Sampson (1983)!
 
great state

 

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On 1/20/2019 at 12:39 AM, wheeler said:

January 18,1983 made the drive to Richfield Coliseum{Ehlo Jordan shot} and watched this Sixers team play. Mr. Richlands did you watched 1992 Richlands football team play in state finals? The school records on this sports pages is wonderful with all the scores and dates for over 100 years.

 

On 1/22/2019 at 8:54 AM, RichlandsAlum said:

That Sixers group was definitely fun to watch -- especially if you were a Sixers fan (which I was at the time).  I didn't personally witness the '92 Richlands state championship game.  I was away at college then and had to stay and take the Graduate Record Examination on the exact date that the Blues captured the title.  And yes, the amount of information that folks have to contribute and are willing to share here is pretty unique. 

Funny that someone with 4 posts is trying to tell someone with 1,444 posts how great this place is!  Welcome, wheeler!  We've been around for 20 years, in one iteration or another, glad you finally found us!

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Malone is overrated. Hes barely a top 5 all time PF.

 

My list:

PG:

  1. Magic
  2. Oscar Robertson
  3. Isaiah Thomas
  4. Steph Curry
  5. John Stockton 

Hon. Mention- Steve Nash, Clyde Frazier, Chris Paul

Shooting Guard:

  1. Mike
  2. Kobe
  3. Jerry West
  4. Dwayne Wade
  5. Allen Iverson

Small Forward:

  1. LeBron
  2. Bird
  3. Durant
  4. Dr. J 
  5. Elgin Baylor

Power Forward:

  1. Tim Duncan 
  2. Charles Barkley
  3. Dirk
  4. Karl Malone
  5. Kevin Garnett

Centers:

  1. Bill Russell
  2. Wilt Chamberlain (could easily be #1)
  3. Shaq
  4. Kareem
  5. Hakeem

 

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Moses averaged a double-double for 15 straight years (16 if you count ABA).  The PFs in NBA history who have done that is Moses Malone...and that’s it.  Sure, he left the game 4 years too late, but the dude was a guaranteed double-double from the time Vietnam ended until the Persian Gulf conflict.

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18 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

Moses averaged a double-double for 15 straight years (16 if you count ABA).  The PFs in NBA history who have done that is Moses Malone...and that’s it.  Sure, he left the game 4 years too late, but the dude was a guaranteed double-double from the time Vietnam ended until the Persian Gulf conflict.

Duncan did it 13 straight years, even during his decline he never managed fewer than 8.9 RPG until his final year while he pulled down 7.3 RPG in 25 MPG. Career PER of 24.2 in a much different area against better competition game in game out.

five titles, two MVPs, three Finals MVPs, 10 time first team All-NBA, 8 time first team All-Defense,15 AS games, 7th all time in rebounds, sixth in blocks, 17th in points, 14th career in PER (Moses-35th), 3rd in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 7th in win shares, 6th in VORP. And I won't count all the second team All NBA and All Defense.

 

maybe I misread, Moses FOR SURE deserves more praise, i would take him over Malone, but I thought You were saying he was more deserving than Duncan, who IMO is too five all time. Jordan, Bron, Duncan, Magic and either Wilt, Russell, Kareem or Shaq.

 

Tim Duncan>>>>>>>>Kobe

 

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34 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

15 > 13, as I said.  😉

 

Duncan has the fortune of playing for one of the 3 best coaches in the game’s history.

You think Malone is a better player than duncan? Just making sure I'm reading this right 

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28 minutes ago, Hokiebird7 said:

You think Malone is a better player than duncan? Just making sure I'm reading this right 

Statistically, Malone was FAR superior and it’s not even close.  

 

The argument with championships is a bit unfair, because Malone got saddled with the bad fortune of coming up during the Celtics/Lakers era.  You had a bunch of owners and GMs in that era who were bonafide idiots.  There’s actually a thing called the “Ted Stepien Rule” because Cleveland’s owner/GM kept trading his 1st round pick to the Celtics every single year (not protected, and Cleveland sucked so badly that it was always a top-5 pick.  Moses played for Houston (made a conference finals) and Philadelphia (made 2 conference finals) in that era.  Name me 1 other player from the ‘81 Rockets without looking.

 

Duncan came up in an era where collective bargaining pretty much ensured there’d be no “super team” like the Bulls for the next 15 years.  As long as you surrounded him with decent talent, he would give you 21-11 and you’d bulldoze the s*** sandwiches of teams in the Western Conference that were around after the Lakers’ demise.  Anyone have fond memories of those Detroit/San Antonio finals?

 

History’s going to remember Duncan as the better player because of the titles, the same way some people incorrectly think John Elway was a better QB than Dan Marino.

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Just asking cause I thought I read it right...I watched both play and not YouTube videos and IMO and IMO only they were both good but I think duncan was a good but better all around player...but not gonna argue about it and start an entire Jordan-LeBron argument on who is better...I respect your opinion just disagree

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5 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

Statistically, Malone was FAR superior and it’s not even close.  

 

The argument with championships is a bit unfair, because Malone got saddled with the bad fortune of coming up during the Celtics/Lakers era.  You had a bunch of owners and GMs in that era who were bonafide idiots.  There’s actually a thing called the “Ted Stepien Rule” because Cleveland’s owner/GM kept trading his 1st round pick to the Celtics every single year (not protected, and Cleveland sucked so badly that it was always a top-5 pick.  Moses played for Houston (made a conference finals) and Philadelphia (made 2 conference finals) in that era.  Name me 1 other player from the ‘81 Rockets without looking.

 

Duncan came up in an era where collective bargaining pretty much ensured there’d be no “super team” like the Bulls for the next 15 years.  As long as you surrounded him with decent talent, he would give you 21-11 and you’d bulldoze the s*** sandwiches of teams in the Western Conference that were around after the Lakers’ demise.  Anyone have fond memories of those Detroit/San Antonio finals?

 

History’s going to remember Duncan as the better player because of the titles, the same way some people incorrectly think John Elway was a better QB than Dan Marino.

 

 

Lol okay, whatever you say. Far superior? You're so, so wrong. Malone played 22 seasons, TD 19.

Malone:

3x MVP

1x Finals MV P

11 time all All League

8th most games 

7th most mins

3rd REB

25th blocks

2nd most turnovers 

Ortg-113.5 86th

Drtg-101.5

Off W/S- 118.6 14th

Def W/S- 101.5 LOLOL

WS-179.1 14th

VORP-46.7 38th

1455 games

career line: 20.3/12.3/1.3/0.8

22 PER (35TH)

 

Duncan

15x AS

3x Finals MVP

5x Champ

15x All NBA and All DDef 

2x MVP

12th min

7th rreb 

6th blocks

24.2 PER (14TH)

Drtg-96.5 (3rd)

Ortg -110

Off W/S- 25th

Def W/S- 2nd

wS-7th

VORP-89.3 6TH

19/11/3.0/2.2

19 Yrs

 

Duncan>Malone, it's not close. Duncan did it against much tougher comp.

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10 hours ago, BigWinners said:

 

 

Lol okay, whatever you say. Far superior? You're so, so wrong. Malone played 22 seasons, TD 19.

Malone:

3x MVP

1x Finals MV P

11 time all All League

8th most games 

7th most mins

3rd REB

25th blocks

2nd most turnovers 

Ortg-113.5 86th

Drtg-101.5

Off W/S- 118.6 14th

Def W/S- 101.5 LOLOL

WS-179.1 14th

VORP-46.7 38th

1455 games

career line: 20.3/12.3/1.3/0.8

22 PER (35TH)

 

Duncan

15x AS

3x Finals MVP

5x Champ

15x All NBA and All DDef 

2x MVP

12th min

7th rreb 

6th blocks

24.2 PER (14TH)

Drtg-96.5 (3rd)

Ortg -110

Off W/S- 25th

Def W/S- 2nd

wS-7th

VORP-89.3 6TH

19/11/3.0/2.2

19 Yrs

 

Duncan>Malone, it's not close. Duncan did it against much tougher comp.

What an absurd justification.

 

One, the competition was objectively FAR superior during the Malone era.  With the Rockets, he had to battle the Lakers.  They had Kareem (HOF, all-time points leader), M. Johnson (HOF, top 5 all-time player), Worthy (HOF), McAdoo (HOF).  They had a HOFer backing up a HOFer.  With the 76ers, he had to battle the Celtics.  They had Bird (HOFer, top 5 all-time player), McHale (HOF), D. Johnson (HOF), Walton (HOF), and Parish (HOF).  They could literally play 5 HOF at once.    And he beat the Lakers once and the Celtics once!  I don’t even have to show that this was pre-expansion, which by its own nature dilutes the talent pool.  That’s preposterous that you’d use that as any justification, and it really damages your whole argument.

 

Two, PPG in the NBA never topped 101.0 in Duncan’s era.  PPG never dipped below 101.4 in Malone’s era.  It’s two different eras!  Offense was the priority in Malone’s era, and he lit it up while rebounding (a defensive contribution) better than anyone at his position in NBA history.  BTW, he did make 2 NBA all-defense teams.  Trying the dismiss Malone because his defensive win-shares were low ignores the fact that there were 10 more possessions per game in that era, and that defensive philosophy flourished with the rules changes in the mid-90s that helped Duncan thrive.

 

Three, touting the number of awards Duncan has (15-12 all-NBA) relative to Malone wholly ignores that Malone spent 4 years in the ABA (1 all-ABA), and lost 2+ years to a broken foot.  In terms of MVPs, Malone has more, two of those coming on a team with Dr. J.

 

Ask yourself this: does Duncan win more than 1 title if you switch him with Malone?  No, and they very easily could have lost the ‘83 title to boot.  Does Malone win more than 5 if switched with Duncan?  Considering San Antonio had some real offensive woes with Duncan (never won consecutive titles), even in a depleted Western Conference, it’s arguable he could have.  

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15 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

What an absurd justification.

 

One, the competition was objectively FAR superior during the Malone era.  With the Rockets, he had to battle the Lakers.  They had Kareem (HOF, all-time points leader), M. Johnson (HOF, top 5 all-time player), Worthy (HOF), McAdoo (HOF).  They had a HOFer backing up a HOFer.  With the 76ers, he had to battle the Celtics.  They had Bird (HOFer, top 5 all-time player), McHale (HOF), D. Johnson (HOF), Walton (HOF), and Parish (HOF).  They could literally play 5 HOF at once.    And he beat the Lakers once and the Celtics once!  I don’t even have to show that this was pre-expansion, which by its own nature dilutes the talent pool.  That’s preposterous that you’d use that as any justification, and it really damages your whole argument.

 

Two, PPG in the NBA never topped 101.0 in Duncan’s era.  PPG never dipped below 101.4 in Malone’s era.  It’s two different eras!  Offense was the priority in Malone’s era, and he lit it up while rebounding (a defensive contribution) better than anyone at his position in NBA history.  BTW, he did make 2 NBA all-defense teams.  Trying the dismiss Malone because his defensive win-shares were low ignores the fact that there were 10 more possessions per game in that era, and that defensive philosophy flourished with the rules changes in the mid-90s that helped Duncan thrive.

 

Three, touting the number of awards Duncan has (15-12 all-NBA) relative to Malone wholly ignores that Malone spent 4 years in the ABA (1 all-ABA), and lost 2+ years to a broken foot.  In terms of MVPs, Malone has more, two of those coming on a team with Dr. J.

 

Ask yourself this: does Duncan win more than 1 title if you switch him with Malone?  No, and they very easily could have lost the ‘83 title to boot.  Does Malone win more than 5 if switched with Duncan?  Considering San Antonio had some real offensive woes with Duncan (never won consecutive titles), even in a depleted Western Conference, it’s arguable he could have.  

A depleted West? LOLOLOLOL. Shaq, great Kings teams, the Mavs, etc...  Duncan had Robinson, Malone had Erving and later on Barkley.

 

Duncan was playing Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, Weber, AI, LeBron,  KG, T-Mac, Wade, later on Durant, Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Kidd, I could go on. Duncan>Malone   anyone with an ounce of basketball knowledge would agree. Go read some opinions, all the most knowledgeable basketball guys have TD over Malone. You also fail to understand metrics, they adjust for pace of pay.

 

For titles, Duncan beat Ewing, LeBron, Wade, Allen, Kidd, Mutumbo, Bosh, all HOF, and had to escape the West gauntlet of Kobe, KG, Dirk, Nash, etc....

 

The fact you claim the West depleted shows me this isn't worth my time.

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17 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said:

How many people here actually watched Malone play when he was playing and not clips? Just curious

I did.  Although I was only about 10 years old at the time, I took an active interest in the NBA (along with a lot of other people) when Magic and Bird came into the league.  But everybody was already aware of Moses Malone by then.

He was an absolute beast in the early 1980's.  Pretty much put Houston on his shoulders and carried them to the 1981 Finals.  And he was the missing link that allowed the 76ers to briefly break the stranglehold that the Celtics and Lakers had on the league when he moved to Philadelphia.  I will always argue that the 1983 Sixers were the very best team in the history of the NBA -- but that's only true because of Malone.  And the team was never the same after his ankle injuries the following year. 

That's the kind of impact that I observed.

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30 minutes ago, RichlandsAlum said:

I did.  Although I was only about 10 years old at the time, I took an active interest in the NBA (along with a lot of other people) when Magic and Bird came into the league.  But everybody was already aware of Moses Malone by then.

He was an absolute beast in the early 1980's.  Pretty much put Houston on his shoulders and carried them to the 1981 Finals.  And he was the missing link that allowed the 76ers to briefly break the stranglehold that the Celtics and Lakers had on the league when he moved to Philadelphia.  I will always argue that the 1983 Sixers were the very best team in the history of the NBA -- but that's only true because of Malone.  And the team was never the same after his ankle injuries the following year. 

That's the kind of impact that I observed.

And that’s the sort of impact I’m talking about.  Duncan wouldn’t have have carried that ‘81 Rockets team to the finals, or allowed that ‘83 76ers team to come 6 points shy of going “fo-fo-fo”.

 

Duncan was on teams that had Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Leonard, and ultra 6th man, Big Shot Bob Horry (the first 2 of which stayed around forever).  Malone made 2 Finals and won 1 title with a Julius Erving that was in the twilight of his career, and he played with a very young Barkley that only really found himself when Malone had been sapped by injury.  That’s virtually it.

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21 hours ago, Hokiebird7 said:

How many people here actually watched Malone play when he was playing and not clips? Just curious

I did and he had a great game but lost in 2 or 3 OT's to Larry and the Celtics. I should remember how many OT's but it was a bus trip and I had a slight buzz, but Larry the Great had 48, I think it was 48 cause I lied I was hammered.

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