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I find it very hard to believe that any coach has instructed a player or players to take a kid out or try and hurt him. From an inside source McCamis has never told his players to take a kid out or hurt anyone, but has told them if they are going to commit a foul on a layup, make a good foul and not let them convert in a 3 point play, which to me is common sense in basketball. Although some kids do not understand the difference in a good clean foul and an intentional foul! 

Great City said it best, the referees need to take control of the game from the start. It never seems to happen in a high intense ball game. Central is 0-18, but from the past games it is always a big game, with emotions running high. 

I think if the Referees that ref this game would grow a set of #$@!!, and not put up with the coaches jawing back and forth and give them a technical and sit them both down, it could calm it down some. Referees now let the assistants come on the court and talk to them, and question calls and the truth is the Referees do not even have to answer to the assistants, and should tell them to sit down and if they have a question the head coach should come talk to the Referees. Just my opinion......

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So multiple people are saying that is what happened, but nobody knows for sure? And isn’t every teams plan to be more physical than their opponents? You say not a chance Scotty “assuming he is the coach” didn’t ask the player to do something? Is where I get confused, and where I see one it being one sided. It’s like “the pot calling the kettle black”. If gate city says he would never do that and the other coach would. Where is the evidence that backs up both claims? All I see is people getting on here like parents,children,coaches,news media etc....stating opinions not facts on any of the topics that are on this site. You said it correctly when you said that players lose their cool. happens on both sides but seems more from parents, coaches, players, students that like to start rumors,which is the case that I’m trying wrap my head around with the locker room, halftime aledged statement. Not one person has came forward and said I heard/not heard the gate city coach say get him off you, whatever it takes. And not one person has came forward and said/not said I heard central coach say undercut him or something in that nature. I would say let the 2 teams play without the fans and there would be a really good game, and the winning team would say both teams played hard and congrats to them. But I have talked to different people over the years from abingdon, John battle, east side, graham, and so on. They don’t like going to gate city to play and They said it’s not that they are playing them because, who didnt want to see the Mac and Irvin show. It’s the disrespect that was shown to them not from the team but fans and a couple of the coaches, but that is their opinion and they have that right. But when someone says they heard something from this person and this person heard from another source, next thing you know by the time you heard it the story has changed 184858583726263300 times and it boils down to they don’t really know. Not on either side of their conflict just outside looking in. Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, #BBN said:

I find it very hard to believe that any coach has instructed a player o players to take a kid out or try and hurt him. From an inside source McCamis has never told his players to take a kid out or hurt anyone, but has told them if they are going to commit a foul on a layup, make a good foul and not let them convert in a 3 point play, which to me is common sense in basketball. Although some kids do not understand the difference in a good clean foul and an intentional foul! 

Great City said it best, the referees need to take control of the game from the start. It never seems to happen in a high intense ball game. Central is 0-18, but from the past games it is always a big game, with emotions running high. 

I think if the Referees that ref this game would grow a set of #$@!!, and not put up with the coaches jawing back and forth and give them a technical and sit them both down, it could calm it down some. Referees now let the assistants come on the court and talk to them, and question calls and the truth is the Referees do not even have to answer to the assistants, and should tell them to sit down and if they have a question the head coach should come talk to the Referees. Just my opinion......

I also find it very hard to believe that a "coach" would instruct his players to do something like that. However, when you take a look at the video of Mac being fouled, it is hard to argue that what you see are good, clean fouls.

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12 minutes ago, Great City said:

I also find it very hard to believe that a "coach" would instruct his players to do something like that. However, when you take a look at the video of Mac being fouled, it is hard to argue that what you see are good, clean fouls.

Yes I agree, like I stated it's hard for kids to understand the difference between a good clean foul, and a cheap intentional foul. The pushing of McClung was not a good foul and it looks awful, the foul on Lester was awful and in my opinion was just an all out cheap shot, no matter if Dean had been pestered all night long, that's not how you react, and this was early in the game. 

I've also seen a video of a kid from Central during the regular season game be shoved into the mat under the goal, and no foul was called and nothing said......

 

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3 minutes ago, #BBN said:

Yes I agree, like I stated it's hard for kids to understand the difference between a good clean foul, and a cheap intentional foul. The pushing of McClung was not a good foul and it looks awful, the foul on Lester was awful and in my opinion was just an all out cheap shot, no matter if Dean had been pestered all night long, that's not how you react, and this was early in the game. 

I've also seen a video of a kid from Central during the regular season game be shoved into the mat under the goal, and no foul was called and nothing said......

 

I saw the video of Dean today and his cheap shot. Should have been ejected from the game in my opinion. 

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1 hour ago, Exposeitall said:

So multiple people are saying that is what happened, but nobody knows for sure? And isn’t every teams plan to be more physical than their opponents? You say not a chance Scotty “assuming he is the coach” didn’t ask the player to do something? Is where I get confused, and where I see one it being one sided. It’s like “the pot calling the kettle black”. If gate city says he would never do that and the other coach would. Where is the evidence that backs up both claims? All I see is people getting on here like parents,children,coaches,news media etc....stating opinions not facts on any of the topics that are on this site. You said it correctly when you said that players lose their cool. happens on both sides but seems more from parents, coaches, players, students that like to start rumors,which is the case that I’m trying wrap my head around with the locker room, halftime aledged statement. Not one person has came forward and said I heard/not heard the gate city coach say get him off you, whatever it takes. And not one person has came forward and said/not said I heard central coach say undercut him or something in that nature. I would say let the 2 teams play without the fans and there would be a really good game, and the winning team would say both teams played hard and congrats to them. But I have talked to different people over the years from abingdon, John battle, east side, graham, and so on. They don’t like going to gate city to play and They said it’s not that they are playing them because, who didnt want to see the Mac and Irvin show. It’s the disrespect that was shown to them not from the team but fans and a couple of the coaches, but that is their opinion and they have that right. But when someone says they heard something from this person and this person heard from another source, next thing you know by the time you heard it the story has changed 184858583726263300 times and it boils down to they don’t really know. Not on either side of their conflict just outside looking in. Thoughts?

Not sure where to begin.

You are never going to have any real "evidence" on what was said by who.......unless you have a recording. Everything else will be hearsay, and will be subject to being manipulated by human nature.

You are talking about two games played in different season. Think that might contribute to part of the confusion. The following is all about last season.

Thought I read a post on here where someone said they heard young McAmis say something in the hall at halftime about not letting Mac dunk the rest of the game. Am very open to being wrong about that. That would be first-hand evidence of at least the Central team trying to not let Mac dunk. If you look at the video of Mac being fouled......it sure looks like they are trying to "take him out" and not let him dunk. It is way more than a good, clean, hard foul. This would have been season before last. During that season I was at a GC-Central game being played at GC.  A kid, who was in middle school at GC at the time, came and spoke to her mother who was seated beside me. She said that the Central team and coaches were talking and the kids were told to "take Mac out" and not let him dunk on them. Now granted the "take Mac out" phrase is from the young girl. No idea if that is what was actually said. I just know that she used those words. So.......during the same season you have someone saying they heard that Central was going to "take Mac out" and not let him dunk, you have pretty clear video evidence of two kids trying to do just that, and you have (I think) young McAmis saying they were going to not let Mac dunk. Kind of shows a pattern. Right? Is not just a heat of the moment action. But you are correct.......there will never be any real proof.

This season:

I was not at the last GC-Central game. I think if you were not there, it is real hard for you to make any meaningful comments on the game, so I have kept my  comments to a minimum. I have known Scotty since he was born. Based solely on knowing him....I feel very confident in saying that he did not instruct one of his players to try and hurt an opposing player. Granted I was not there, and was not privy to any of the conversations he had with his team.

 

Exposeitall..............have you ever been to a game at GC? Just curious to hear your opinions on how it went?

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24 minutes ago, Exposeitall said:

The video you are referring to of Mac getting fouled. The first push didn’t look that bad but the second push was uncalled for by the player. 

Really? I thought the first push alone was terrible.

 

20 minutes ago, Hokie777 said:

I saw the video of Dean today and his cheap shot. Should have been ejected from the game in my opinion. 

  I agree. Should have been ejected on the spot.

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No I wasn’t at the game. I currently reside elsewhere. But a native to the area. But what you said would explain a lot that it started with a middle school kid. But I wouldn’t say first hand evidence. It was just confusing from reading everyone’s post in what happened. 

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4 minutes ago, Exposeitall said:

No I wasn’t at the game. I currently reside elsewhere. But a native to the area. But what you said would explain a lot that it started with a middle school kid. But I wouldn’t say first hand evidence. It was just confusing from reading everyone’s post in what happened. 

I meant any GC home, basketball game.

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31 minutes ago, Exposeitall said:

Maybe a handfull in the last several years. But not in the 3 years I would say 

Hey.........then don't rely on the opinions of others. Come to a GC game and let us know what you think. Our fans are loud, and you may hear "fire up the bus", but it is not a bad crowd. Actually...........come to the next GC-Central game and judge for yourself.

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How about this for a take

during a game of basketball no one should be intentionally elbowed or pushed, 

the adults shouldnt act like kids which apparently was the case the other night, and seems to always be the case when these two teams play each other 

 

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Not from either school so here is my take on the issue.  I watched both Vermillion and McCamis play in high school and college.  They are older now but still act the way they did at 17/18 years old.  They are both hot tempered and throw fits when things don't go their way.  In my opinion, McCamis is worse at this than Vermillion.  That being said, I honestly don't know if there is any truth to the allegations for either telling their player to take someone out or elbow someone intentionally.

I am old school so I do understand statements like "if you are gonna foul, make it count" or "if you foul on a break, make sure they don't get the shot off".  Most coaches will use those phrases because you hate to see a cheap foul from behind and the player still hits the shot.  SWVA games over the last few years have gotten very physical.  I think this comes from teams trying to mimic the bigger and more athletic schools on the eastern side of the state.  There seems to be more man 2 man defense and the offense is being pushed to play faster and faster.  When the game was slower, teams played more zone and the offense was more of a half court style. 

While I can't deny that the coaches and schools have some responsibility in this matter, I think there is also another huge factor at play, the officials.  Current officiating is the worst I have witnessed and I have been around basketball since the late 1980's.  With the move of girls basketball to the winter along with implementing a third official for varsity games, the officiating pool is terribly watered down.  Now, when everyone is having a quad on a Tuesday, you need 5 refs (2 JV/3 Varsity) at each site.  Officials main goal now is to get through the night as quick as possible, take their check, and laugh at the bitching fans as they sprint off the floor.  Officials do not want to call a lot of fouls so they let hand checks and bumps go.  Next, you don't call over the back and illegal screens.  Then, players begin to get chippy and start shoving and throwing elbows.  That's when the fans and coaches start raising hell and people start making accusations on here. 

Kids have shoved players in the back on a fast break for as long as I have been watching, it's not new because someone did it to McClung.  Kid's have been throwing elbows for as long as the other players have been hacking or reaching around from behind, not just Dean.  Players will talk trash, they will taunt, and they will make mistakes.  These players are still kids and they react to situations with emotion.  I am not a big fan of either of these fan bases because I am also a part of another fan base, but I understand why they get so fired up about their players. 

If you really want to fix these issues then start with the officials.  They believe that you can't call everything or you will be there all night.  What they aren't willing to do is test that theory.  Maybe if you call the hand checks and bumps on defense early the kids back off a little and play with their feet and not their bodies.  Maybe if you call every over the back and moving screen, the kids will learn better fundamentals.  Maybe if you started giving technicals quick for any chatter from a team's 8-9 assistant coaches they will either sit in the stands or shut up. 

Just my thoughts.

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13 minutes ago, zebra said:

Not from either school so here is my take on the issue.  I watched both Vermillion and McCamis play in high school and college.  They are older now but still act the way they did at 17/18 years old.  They are both hot tempered and throw fits when things don't go their way.  In my opinion, McCamis is worse at this than Vermillion.  That being said, I honestly don't know if there is any truth to the allegations for either telling their player to take someone out or elbow someone intentionally.

I am old school so I do understand statements like "if you are gonna foul, make it count" or "if you foul on a break, make sure they don't get the shot off".  Most coaches will use those phrases because you hate to see a cheap foul from behind and the player still hits the shot.  SWVA games over the last few years have gotten very physical.  I think this comes from teams trying to mimic the bigger and more athletic schools on the eastern side of the state.  There seems to be more man 2 man defense and the offense is being pushed to play faster and faster.  When the game was slower, teams played more zone and the offense was more of a half court style. 

While I can't deny that the coaches and schools have some responsibility in this matter, I think there is also another huge factor at play, the officials.  Current officiating is the worst I have witnessed and I have been around basketball since the late 1980's.  With the move of girls basketball to the winter along with implementing a third official for varsity games, the officiating pool is terribly watered down.  Now, when everyone is having a quad on a Tuesday, you need 5 refs (2 JV/3 Varsity) at each site.  Officials main goal now is to get through the night as quick as possible, take their check, and laugh at the bitching fans as they sprint off the floor.  Officials do not want to call a lot of fouls so they let hand checks and bumps go.  Next, you don't call over the back and illegal screens.  Then, players begin to get chippy and start shoving and throwing elbows.  That's when the fans and coaches start raising hell and people start making accusations on here. 

Kids have shoved players in the back on a fast break for as long as I have been watching, it's not new because someone did it to McClung.  Kid's have been throwing elbows for as long as the other players have been hacking or reaching around from behind, not just Dean.  Players will talk trash, they will taunt, and they will make mistakes.  These players are still kids and they react to situations with emotion.  I am not a big fan of either of these fan bases because I am also a part of another fan base, but I understand why they get so fired up about their players. 

If you really want to fix these issues then start with the officials.  They believe that you can't call everything or you will be there all night.  What they aren't willing to do is test that theory.  Maybe if you call the hand checks and bumps on defense early the kids back off a little and play with their feet and not their bodies.  Maybe if you call every over the back and moving screen, the kids will learn better fundamentals.  Maybe if you started giving technicals quick for any chatter from a team's 8-9 assistant coaches they will either sit in the stands or shut up. 

Just my thoughts.

First, if you call every over the back you are wrong every time.  It isnt in the book.   I dont make it to many basketball games but I agree the move of girls basketball to the fall has not helped our area as far as how many officials are needed in our area.  We fight that battle in every sport.  Its hard to recruit new folks into the fold who want to do a job that doesnt earn a lot of money for the time given, and especially in basketball, receives a ton of ridicule. 

That being said, if you call every single foul by the book, our teams are going to get killed when they go to state also.  As bad as it may sound, in years past I know we have been regarded as being much tighter on play than officiating across that state.  Things are far from perfect, and I always hope we will get better as an association each year in every sport.  To do so, it will take more people wanting to come out and do the job while also spending time and money to get better in their spare time also.  

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Doesn't surprise me that you try to correct me from the start.  Ref's are never wrong in their minds.  I know "over the back" isn't in the book, it's a term that has been used forever.  I assume "charge" isn't either.  It would be offensive foul or player control foul. 

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4 hours ago, Great City said:

Hey.........then don't rely on the opinions of others. Come to a GC game and let us know what you think. Our fans are loud, and you may hear "fire up the bus", but it is not a bad crowd. Actually...........come to the next GC-Central game and judge for yourself.

It’s hard not to rely on the opinions of others when they say they go to a gate city basketball game and the home school fans and parents are sitting on both sides of the gym. That is a mess in its self and i have been told this from multiple different schools. So it is hard not to think it happens. So it will be a while before I come to any games down that way. Sounds like the parents and the fans control the teams, and that is just my thought. 

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12 hours ago, Exposeitall said:

Reading this southwest Virgina Jerry springer nonsense and Trying to put together why in the world is going on so here is my opinion. Contradicting stories from one side! One says that happened in the locker room before the game, you say that happened at halftime. Did anybody hear the alleged statement? Was anyone there? How does the opposing team hear something in a locker room of their opponents? Wasn’t at either game but how do some of you know that the coach didn’t ask the player to throw an elbow? Or be rough to get them to back off? I’m gonna go out on a limb and say of course the coach isn’t going to say that because if he does admit to it he would probably get fired,sued,and wouldn’t be allowed to work in another school anywhere and they would be working at a fast food joint. If the player did do it at his own free will, why is it just a half game suspension? From what I hear the other player is out for the season. Why isn’t the other player out for the season? If it was intentional? Just trying to put a messed up puzzle together. Does it go back farther than what people think? Is everyones statement on this forum hear say, opinions, facts? If they are facts we all would like to see the evidence to back up these claims. Does anyone have any answers? They would be greatly appreciated for everyone involved

Not contradicting stories just 2 different years. Lets just say I had a closer to seat to the action than most people in this chat. 2017-2018 the year McClung was at his peak, I heard first hand with my own 2 ears as the players were going to the lockerroom McCamis look at one of his kids and tell them not to let McClung dunk again and to put him on the floor(take his legs out) before they let him dunk on them again. Once again I know a handful of Central players personally and have hungout with some of them off the floor and they're a cool people. I feel their coach is the reason for the way they play and if they had a coach that was actually concerned about making them better and trying to help each kid individually and then as a team they would be dangerous. Whenever Wise decides to take a serious look in the mirror and do away with that whole coaching staff then only then will they succeed. 

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12 minutes ago, Squints said:

Not contradicting stories just 2 different years. Lets just say I had a closer to seat to the action than most people in this chat. 2017-2018 the year McClung was at his peak, I heard first hand with my own 2 ears as the players were going to the lockerroom McCamis look at one of his kids and tell them not to let McClung dunk again and to put him on the floor(take his legs out) before they let him dunk on them again. Once again I know a handful of Central players personally and have hungout with some of them off the floor and they're a cool people. I feel their coach is the reason for the way they play and if they had a coach that was actually concerned about making them better and trying to help each kid individually and then as a team they would be dangerous. Whenever Wise decides to take a serious look in the mirror and do away with that whole coaching staff then only then will they succeed. 

Did the push on mcClung happen before or after halftime? 

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1 hour ago, Exposeitall said:

I guess that would help me with the confusion.

He never got pushed that year(2017-2018 season). To clarify (2016-2017 season) McClung is a Junior goes up to dunk and is pushed twice blatantly while still in a vulnerable position. This game was played at Wise Central. (2017-2018 season) McClung is a senior. As the two teams where going to the lockerroom at halftime Wise Central's head coach was heard telling one of his players loudly and enthusiastically to not let him(McClung) dunk again and to out him on the floor before they let him dunk on them again. This caused a couple of players and coaches from Gate City to speak up and say something which caused a short and heated confrontation in the hallway where both Wise Central's home lockerroom and the lockerroom that visiting opponents use are located. It is a confusing situation cause there's some many stories because so many people have interpreted and repeated multiple accounts of the events so if you have any more questions let me know my man and I'll be glad to try and give an answer.

 

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