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Low Numbers in HS Football


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2 hours ago, UVAObserver said:

Given my age, I fall square between Generation X and the Millennials (though technically I fall in the latter category, I have little in common with 1990s babies).  When I was 5, I had 13 channels on TV.  When I was 17, I could download 1000 songs per week off the Internet.  This is a prelude for what I’m about to say.

 

There’s a constant pining on this board for the good old days, when men were men; when every single boy played football; and when a succession of presidents with dreadful foreign policy had the U.S. embroiled in unwinnable wars.  In case y’all haven’t noticed, our population is on average roughly 25% less than what it was back then.  Since fewer of the remaining 75% are having babies than their ancestors (mostly because the young ones fled the region leaving the old ones behind), our schools are roughly 40% smaller than in the era of LSD and 8-tracks.  For schools like Pocahontas, that means closure.  For schools like Garden and Whitewood, that means consolidation.  For every 10 linemen you had in 1974, you have about 6 now.  What used to be depth now is simply having enough to play iron-man.

 

In addition, what most of the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers bemoan as “picking up a controller” is in reality becoming more oriented in STEM and electronics.  I hate to break this to anyone, but coal will never again be what it was in 1973.  Information technology (IT) is the backbone of our future economy.  The boys that used to bale hay and dig ditches in the summer, which lends itself to a sport like football, are now learning to code and program, which doesn’t lend itself.

 

Every generation has its lazy kids, and this generation has it in the exact same proportion as did the Baby Boomers and Generation X.  The kids who lay around smoking dope and play Fortnite today are the same kids who laid around smoking dope and playing guitar terribly in 1975.  There were probably more of them in 1975, because there were more people in general.  Far be it from me, though, to criticize the generations who gave us the pet rock and pension systems that irreparably leach the retirement funds of the younger generations to subsidize themselves.  It’s ALL because the kids of today are lazy and worthless.

 

The kids of today will be responsible for repairing the mess left behind by the generations who are criticizing their work ethic.  And I, for one, am not going to ride them like Seattle Slew, even if it means that we have fewer kids playing football.

 

Rant over.

@UVAObserver you and @sixcat are two of the posters I respect the most here. With that said, I have to respectfully disagree with the point that you guys are trying to make about the importance of a future in technology, being a big reason kids aren’t playing football.

I will do some research on SWVA numbers as a whole, but I can speak for Bristol. @Blue 72 described what Bristol is suffering from, perfectly in his post. The fact of the matter is, yes, technology is more important now, than ever before. With that said, there is way more than the sport of football that is suffering from low participation numbers. Nearly all youth sports programs in Bristol are on the decline because of lack of participation. Also, extracurricular activities such as band, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and other wonderful programs are suffering locally.

Local parks, ball fields, playgrounds, etc. that were once littered with playing children on evenings, weekends and usually every day during summer break, are empty on a daily basis, unless being manned by one of the few remaining organized sports teams.

I do understand that population has an affect on the numbers, but I will share this link with you to use VHS as an example that enrollment has not really changed at VHS for a very long time. The DOE website would only go back to the 03-04 school year, but I can attest to the fact that these are nearly the same enrollment numbers dating back much farther, as I am a member of the class of 97 at VHS. 

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex/f?p=180:1:6370136481561:SHOW_REPORT:NO:::

The point I’m trying to make is that going back 3 decades(roughly) the enrollment at VHS has stayed virtually the same, yet student participation in sports is at an all time low, along with the fact that our Parks and Rec sports league that goes back over 40 years, is now non existent. 

Couple those facts, with empty parks and fields, with declining numbers in clubs/groups/organizations that require physicality, and the fact that the video game industry is a billion dollar conglomerate worldwide, shows that the world of indoor playing(so to speak) has progressively been replacing the times of going outside and being physically active. 

I’m definitely not trying to say that you were wrong in what you said, and in certain areas in SWVA, your point holds true. I’m just not in agreement mostly with your quote......

“Every generation has its lazy kids, and this generation has it in the exact same proportion as did the Baby Boomers and Generation X.”

Of course, every generation has lazy kids, but laziness is definitely progressing by generation, and it’s not just on the level of sports where this can be clearly seen.

I am however in complete agreement that, unfortunately, coal will never be what it once was. I would also like to add, at least for our area, farming and manufacturing are on the decline as well.

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5 hours ago, Bearcat Dad said:

With that said, there is way more than the sport of football that is suffering from low participation numbers. Nearly all youth sports programs in Bristol are on the decline because of lack of participation. Also, extracurricular activities such as band, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and other wonderful programs are suffering locally.

 

It's too expensive. That has something to do with it, too. 

I'm the step-parent of a 5 year old who is heading to kindergarten in WashCo next month. He hasn't played any sports yet. Part of that comes from the split household lifestyle he lives. Another part is the expense of playing. I know that from my band career, my family shelled out over $6k for me to have a good instrument, to go on the trips to the Cotton Bowl, NYC/Philly Thanksgiving Parade, Governors Parade, to go to the competitions each week in the fall, the other activities that require money. It's expensive, and this region doesn't have the jobs to support it as much any more. It is what it is, but I think a big problem in SWVA is that we as a region are starting to get to where sports and extracurricular's are breaking the bank for some. 

My wife and I are also expecting our first (and only) child. It's a boy. And while that thrills me, I'm not sure I'll let him play football. We've seen all too often lately what CTE does to a human. And the price of life is not worth it for a game, IMO. 

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The facts of the matter are still the same, not enough kids for whatever reason! If you want to take a look at what is coming to Southwest Virginia, go to Bluefield and drive 52 to Welch, and in 10 or so years it will be the same from Claypool Hill to Grundy on 460 or 58A form Hansonville to Big Stone!

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11 hours ago, sixcat said:

My wife’s parents cannot relate to my daughter. They see her as lazy, distant and ungrateful. They have taken to calling her “Daria” and wonder why she is so distant with them.

At 14, she has been to some pretty prestigious “invitation only” STEM camps. As a 7th grader last year, she wrote the entire code for the Galax high school robotics team. She plays 6 instruments fluently and is featured on the current FloydFest lineup poster. Where her band of misfit teenagers will be performing next weekend.

Because someone uses technology as a tool to a better life doesn’t necessarily make them lazy.  It often makes the highly intelligent. Much more so than the previous generations that don’t understand them!

 

Hey, I agree with what you guys are saying about the intelligent aspect of this generation. I have grandchildren who are far more intelligent than I was at their age and I admire them for it, but on the physical side I see a decline.  Don't blame the children for not doing hard labor, and after 47 years in the industry, I do know what the coal industry looks like, but we are talking about the decline in sports, football in particular.  The ratio mentioned in this thread about population I do not question, but the work ethic it takes to be in sports, or even high school band, is what I am referring too when I say the students we have now do not have the drive and dedication my generation had.  

We see it in the educational classes as well, and far be it from me to pass judgement on anyone, but it is what it is, and because of technology that we use daily, (even on this wonderful board), that drive and desire has declined.   Call it being lazy, or what ever you want, but I see it in the work force, in the home life, and in the school life of my own grandchildren I love dearly.  

Using technology as a tool to better life is great, but if you're going to play sports, you have to have the drive and desire to put forth that physical effort and I don't see that coming from a computer screen.  I love my grandchildren and depend on them to teach this old man how to use this modern technology that makes things easier, but I still have to put in the work that is needed to stay active and healthy to enjoy this technology.  

 

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Because my daughter isn’t in the park, gym or playing field doesn’t mean she is somehow lazy. Learning to play guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and saxophone at a concert level while maintaining an advanced classroom schedule and the extra work required for her to be invited to STEM camps involves as much or more dedication, sacrifice and practice as any sport!

I would challenge anyone here to maintain my daughters schedule for a week!  After letting her read through the last page, she says this thread is one big reason she despises sports.

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So is this the consensus of the discussion?

There is a decline in numbers across the board due to aging and declining population for a variety of reasons. We know it's not the student/athletes fault. If a prominent and respected member of this board is not willing to risk the health of their own child to play this game (and for good reason, no judgement, I get it completely) then the game is it's own enemy and will self devour. Students do have a large load of work just to graduate, go to college, have a car and some part time work, all the while dealing with a fast paced crazy world. 

Go out and enjoy the game every chance you have. It will not be here much longer.   

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2 hours ago, sixcat said:

Because my daughter isn’t in the park, gym or playing field doesn’t mean she is somehow lazy. Learning to play guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and saxophone at a concert level while maintaining an advanced classroom schedule and the extra work required for her to be invited to STEM camps involves as much or more dedication, sacrifice and practice as any sport!

I would challenge anyone here to maintain my daughters schedule for a week!  After letting her read through the last page, she says this thread is one big reason she despises sports.

This post for some reason reminds me of the adage that if we judge a fish by its ability to walk, the fish will always be a failure.  Not every male will have the talent or drive to play sports, and that’s the way it should be.

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Ryan brought up an interesting point about split households as well. I don't know the statistics, but for a variety of reasons, but seems a greater percentage of children come from broken homes. The expenses and logistics in those situations are a couple of additional obstacles. 

I agree somewhat with all posters on both sides. For me, I believe there is a fine line between balance and specialization with our health as a whole.  

As for football, since becoming a father, I am aware of the risks,  but am also skeptical of many of the studies.  I am sure that those are heavily influenced by the outliers of society (i.e. the small percentage of those who competed in the NFL and Division 1), where the duration of their careers as well as the impacts of bigger, faster, stronger men, are more violent.  My decision is caution while small, but if they wish to play when I believe they are ready, I will understand and be happy about them playing. It's not for everyone, but the lessons learned are priceless.  I have a few aches and pains,  but I have been blessed with good health, partly because of the self-discipline learned from football.   My experience I honestly believe have taught me how to be a better person.

Congratulations, Ryan.  I pray everything goes well with your family. You're already thinking like a father. 

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Guys, I respect the heck out of all of you, but Good Lord brothers, there's some things that are just not accurate. First, the accurate part IMO is...

Numbers have dropped because of multifactoral variables, not one or binomial variables. The relevance of head trauma as it relates to CTE, but also increased chance of neurological illness (ALS) and early onset dementia has played a huge part. Technology and video games as a form of entertainment, social interaction, and even competition and competitiveness allows demonstration right in one's living room. Additionally, population decline is a factor. I agree with all of this. I also believe that the decline is NOT because this generation is lazy. I do believe it is Partially because this generation has a low emotional intelligence (EQ) and likely (keyword is likely) a lower IQ. I will get to that below.

Now for the things I Disagree with mentioned by some posters. Past presidents and foreign policy or wars has zero relevance to the subject. That statement stemmed from a political ideology having no relevance. Lastly, the generational thing....

Western IQs have been falling for 2 decades. This is well proven in Scandinavia (highly technical) and Germany and France. There hasn't been a clear cut study proving this yet in the USA because we have become so politically correct (heavily influenced by younger generations) that we will not even study the topic. Literally, a researcher can't get the funding to do a large randomized double blinded study to investigate the issue. It stands to reason, IQs have actually dropped in the US regardless of who is writing computer code at age 8. 

Emotional intelligence is the huge topic in psychology, behavioral science and equally important, business. EQ is best summed up as social-awarness, self-awareness, and the awareness, empathy, and sympathy of others awareness. EQ may be described as "people skills or people smart." This area is one in which we have dropped substantionally in intelligence (in the form of EQ.) The younger generations have largely engaged socially by technology, computers, etc. Cell phones, social media, and video games all fall in this area. The personal-physical engagement, body language recognition and demonstration is practiced very little compared to older generations.  This leads to a rising level of narcissistic and cluster B personality disorders, and much of this fuels the lack of participation in any area or sport that may be considered or actually is risky such as football.

What I'm getting at is, every generation has its pros and cons. The ultimate demonstration of intelligence whether it be IQ or EQ is the ability to survive and sustain life. Sperm counts and the Quality of sperm in men has greatly decreased in millennials in ALL Western countries. The low EQ and likely low IQ of millennials would tell you it's because of the environment (possibly it is) without ever considering human behavior and social skills as an influence. This is because the ability to look at oneself, to challenge the ego is something unallowed with narcissism.

With millennials, Knowledge and Knowing has greatly increased and this will lead to incredible gains in technology and cures for diseases, but don't confuse knowledge with IQ or EQ. The Ability to know (IQ) and emotion intelligence (EQ) has actually decreased.  A kid who is writing computer code at age 8 does not necessarily have a high IQ or is smart. What the kid has is knowledge. For example, it's very likely that kid writing computer code can not do what another 8 year old is doing by having the ability to easily desalinate ocean water to fresh water, or understand why the current windspeed, temperature, time of day, and time of year, and type of insect determines when, where, and what a green cutthroat trout will hit. The latter 8 year may have a higher IQ or vice versa.

Mother nature always has and always will maintain balance. Is information technology truly the path of the future?  It might be and it might not. Is farming and agriculture the future? For example, with the dependence and interconnectivity on computers and technology on nearly all aspects of life (and it's increasing in dependence) what happens with one massive EMP or even a solar flair that knocks out our grid? Which skillset becomes more important? There's no question millennials are very gifted as a generation and I don't think they are lazy. But, they do have some incredible deficiencies just like all generations of the past. There is no binomial proposition comparing millennials and past generations. But, it's easy to make it a binomial proposition if one wishes to. I wanted to give the other side of the argument.

This is my rant, but I just wanted to make sure posters had another viewpoint on the generational thing. Fact is, neither viewpoint is absolutely right or wrong.

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On 7/16/2019 at 3:07 AM, Ryan4VT said:

It's too expensive. That has something to do with it, too. 

I'm the step-parent of a 5 year old who is heading to kindergarten in WashCo next month. He hasn't played any sports yet. Part of that comes from the split household lifestyle he lives. Another part is the expense of playing. I know that from my band career, my family shelled out over $6k for me to have a good instrument, to go on the trips to the Cotton Bowl, NYC/Philly Thanksgiving Parade, Governors Parade, to go to the competitions each week in the fall, the other activities that require money. It's expensive, and this region doesn't have the jobs to support it as much any more. It is what it is, but I think a big problem in SWVA is that we as a region are starting to get to where sports and extracurricular's are breaking the bank for some. 

My wife and I are also expecting our first (and only) child. It's a boy. And while that thrills me, I'm not sure I'll let him play football. We've seen all too often lately what CTE does to a human. And the price of life is not worth it for a game, IMO. 

I understand completely. Aaron has played all up and down the east coast in travel baseball. It’s no exaggeration that if I added up all the money we’ve spent just with his travel baseball, I could have paid cash for my house.

My wife was in the band, and like you, she traveled everywhere including to London to play for the queen. I can remember their tireless efforts in fundraising and that was over 20 years ago. We see the band parents working concession stands at all of the athletic events, among the many other things they’re doing to raise money. I can’t imagine how expensive it is today compared to when I was growing up.

I feel bad for being late, but congratulations on the upcoming baby boy, my friend!

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On 7/16/2019 at 10:08 AM, sixcat said:

Because my daughter isn’t in the park, gym or playing field doesn’t mean she is somehow lazy. Learning to play guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and saxophone at a concert level while maintaining an advanced classroom schedule and the extra work required for her to be invited to STEM camps involves as much or more dedication, sacrifice and practice as any sport!

I would challenge anyone here to maintain my daughters schedule for a week!  After letting her read through the last page, she says this thread is one big reason she despises sports.

I’m not sure I see anyone saying that all kids, your daughter included, that do not go to parks, gyms, and fields, are lazy. I will see if I can explain the meaning of my posts a little further. 

First of all, congratulations to your daughter on everything she is working hard to accomplish. With that schedule, she is not lazy whatsoever. Along with the sports aspect of this discussion, I also have a little knowledge of exactly where you’re coming from with this aspect.

My daughter, 19, graduated from VHS last year with a 4.25 GPA, with nearly 40 college credits to her name. She fell just a few credits shy of actually graduating high school with her Associate’s Degree. We did have two graduation ceremonies to attend though, as she did receive her General Ed. certificate from Highlands Community College in Abingdon, the school responsible for sponsoring the dual enrollment classes at VHS. She entered college last fall as a second semester sophomore. 

She also has an extensive collection of t-shirts from STEM camps. For three consecutive summers, she attended Emory & Henry’s week-long Summer Leadership camp, where the kids did everything from build and program robots to writing, directing, and acting in plays.

I understand where you’re coming from when a kid has a grueling schedule such as our daughter’s did/do. Mine has carved out her path in receiving her Doctorate as she’s wanting to become a Forensic Profiler for the FBI.

With that said, she was also a cheerleader in high school as well as the 2018 Region D champion in girl’s discus. 

My whole point is, school hallways are not filled with kids who CHOOSE technology/science/academics/arts over football and other sports. Are there a few kids who do? I’m sure there are. Is the number of kids who CHOOSE not to play football and other sports exponentially higher because there’s too much hard, physical work involved? Without a shadow of a doubt!

Of course there are many reasons why kids don’t play sports. Certain reasons have always been there like; too expensive, not coordinated enough, other interests such as cars, fishing, hiking, camping, “learning to play guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and saxophone at a concert level”, and a big one, GIRLS!

I echoed the sentiment of @Blue 72‘s post about video games. Video games allow kids to be a professional whatever they want to be without getting up off of their couch.

Dont get me wrong, I’m not anti-video game. My generation is responsible for the start of gaming. I have a lot of hours under my belt with Pong and Pitfall on Atari, trying my best not to die from dysentery during a harsh winter on the Oregon Trail, and doing my very best to whip Mike Tyson’s ass on Punch Out.

Video games certainly have their place in our society. Although, there has to be balance.

Edited by Bearcat Dad
I misspelled a word
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2 hours ago, Bearcat Dad said:

I’m not sure I see anyone saying that all kids, your daughter included, that do not go to parks, gyms, and fields, are lazy. I will see if I can explain the meaning of my posts a little further. 

First of all, congratulations to your daughter on everything she is working hard to accomplish. With that schedule, she is not lazy whatsoever. Along with the sports aspect of this discussion, I also have a little knowledge of exactly where you’re coming from with this aspect.

My daughter, 19, graduated from VHS last year with a 4.25 GPA, with nearly 40 college credits to her name. She fell just a few credits shy of actually graduating high school with her Associate’s Degree. We did have two graduation ceremonies to attend though, as she did receive her General Ed. certificate from Highlands Community College in Abingdon, the school responsible for sponsoring the dual enrollment classes at VHS. She entered college last fall as a second semester sophomore. 

She also has an extensive collection of t-shirts from STEM camps. For three consecutive summers, she attended Emory & Henry’s week-long Summer Leadership camp, where the kids did everything from build and program robots to writing, directing, and acting in plays.

I understand where you’re coming from when a kid has a grueling schedule such as our daughter’s did/do. Mine has carved out her path in receiving her Doctorate as she’s wanting to become a Forensic Profiler for the FBI.

With that said, she was also a cheerleader in high school as well as the 2018 Region D champion in girl’s discus. 

My whole point is, school hallways are not filled with kids who CHOOSE technology/science/academics/arts over football and other sports. Are there a few kids who do? I’m sure there are. Is the number of kids who CHOOSE not to play football and other sports exponentially higher because there’s too much hard, physical work involved? Without a shadow of a doubt!

Of course there are many reasons why kids don’t play sports. Certain reasons have always been there like; too expensive, not coordinated enough, other interests such as cars, fishing, hiking, camping, “learning to play guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, ukulele and saxophone at a concert level”, and a big one, GIRLS!

I echoed the sentiment of @Blue 72‘s post about video games. Video games allow kids to be a professional whatever they want to be without getting up off of their couch.

Dont get me wrong, I’m not anti-video game. My generation is responsible for the start of gaming. I have a lot of hours under my belt with Pong and Pitfall on Atari, trying my best not to die from dysentery during a harsh winter on the Oregon Trail, and doing my very best to whip Mike Tyson’s ass on Punch Out.

Video games certainly have their place in our society. Although, there has to be balance.

I wasn't pointing specifically toward you with my comments.  It was intended to be more of a blanket statement supporting my daughter.  Her STEM camps thus far have been Wake Forest, Emory University, and Johns Hopkins.  If she chooses to attend next summer, it will likely be Stanford.  Her disgust with athletics as a whole comes almost exclusively from her experiences within her school system.  The issues that lead to her disgust are far more frequent than they should be.  Especially at Galax where the rules don't apply to athletes until local law enforcement is forced to get involved. Those same issues have lead to a 20% average yearly turnover rate for school system staff.  From where I sit, lack of quality leadership and a "good ole boy" system prevail at Galax!   

I agree completely with the assertion that many, many factors contribute to kids not playing sports.  But my larger point is, it should also be viewed from the opposite direction.  How does the negativity that often surrounds athletics affect academics?  I would make the argument, much more than we stop to consider!  

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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

I wasn't pointing specifically toward you with my comments.  It was intended to be more of a blanket statement supporting my daughter.  Her STEM camps thus far have been Wake Forest, Emory University, and Johns Hopkins.  If she chooses to attend next summer, it will likely be Stanford.  Her disgust with athletics as a whole comes almost exclusively from her experiences within her school system.  The issues that lead to her disgust are far more frequent than they should be.  Especially at Galax where the rules don't apply to athletes until local law enforcement is forced to get involved. Those same issues have lead to a 20% average yearly turnover rate for school system staff.  From where I sit, lack of quality leadership and a "good ole boy" system prevail at Galax!   

I agree completely with the assertion that many, many factors contribute to kids not playing sports.  But my larger point is, it should also be viewed from the opposite direction.  How does the negativity that often surrounds athletics affect academics?  I would make the argument, much more than we stop to consider!  

I didn’t really believe your earlier post was exactly directed at me, but since I did mention parks, gyms, and fields, I just wanted to clarify what I meant by what I’ve personally seen with kids over the last two decades, because I do respect your opinion on other topics I’ve seen you post on over the last few years.

I agree with your last statement wholeheartedly! I know personally, because as a teenager that was a decent athlete, I was part of the problem in my day. I got away with murder, along with a lot of my teammates, back in our day.

My claim to fame as an athlete at VHS, aside from being an average D2 football player, I became Virginia High’s first ever athlete to be banned from a sport/team because of the then new state rule that athletes had to maintain a 2.0 GPA to play sports. My terrible GPA had nothing to do with lack of intelligence, but I preferred playing ball, getting drunk, and chasing skirt to actually doing my homework. When the news broke, I actually went to my teachers in a last ditch attempt to get make-up work, to reach the 2.0. Looking back, the worst part about that experience was that I had teachers that played along! My Algebra 2 teacher let me retake my first semester exam, with the answer key right next to me!

I was not able to do enough to reach the 2.0, so I had to sit out baseball season my junior year, in the Spring of 96. That season just so happened to be the last state title that VHS won, before the 2014 team ended the school’s longest title drought since the early 80’s. That experience scarred me for life.

I swore that I would do whatever I could to ever keep my kids from going through that themselves. Now, the good Lord did bless both of my kids with a little bit of athletic ability, that did allow them to earn money for college, but they can attest to the fact that their mother and I have preached the importance of “academics first”.

The “Good Ole Boy” system is an epidemic that unfortunately, isn’t going anywhere soon. I believe that stems from society’s view of professional athletes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a sports nut, but way too much importance is placed there.

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2 hours ago, Eersfan said:

Pitfall was the bomb. What game was about the Oregon trail? I’m sure I would’ve remembered a game where you died from drinking stagnant water.

I LOVED Pitfall! Q-bert was another favorite of mine. I hated that damn snake!

The game was actually called Oregon Trail. It was the first popular desktop computer game that I was introduced to in my library class in elementary school. My parents could never afford a computer back then, so the only time I was able to play it was at school.

Oregon Trail has developed a cult following in recent years. I’ve actually seen kids wearing t-shirts today with the old-school green computer graphics of the big covered wagon with the infamous slogan “You have died of dysentery” captioned underneath.

The object of the game was to take your family on a winter-long trip on the Oregon Trail, to relocate from whatever town you were living in at the time. At the beginning of the game, you could choose your character’s strengths, like being an efficient hunter, or being good with tools, or good at bartering. 

During your journey, a million different things could go wrong to slow you down, like one of your oxen dying that’s pulling the wagon, or your wagon could be attacked and your food and few personal items stolen, or an axel or wheel on your wagon could break. The longer it took you to reach your destination, the more likely it was that bad things would happen to you and your group, like hunger, pneumonia, and the most popular, dysentery lol.

For the time, it was so much fun. I’ve seen a few recent mobile versions of the game, but the ones I tried just never compared.

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