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Tazewell @ Graham


Taz_Dawg61
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2 hours ago, Eersfan said:

My point is that you can only gauge how great a team is by who they play. 

We disagree on your very first statement.  I'm gauging it on the ability of the WR to get separation, to run a route, the lateral movement of a linebacker, the lateral movement of a QB, the hip twitch (fast or slow hips) of the DB from the time the ball is snapped, the ability of a Defensive lineman to get pressure when the Offensive lineman actually rose first and beat him off of the snap.  

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56 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

Literally nothing after the second sentence of this post is correct.

Agree, but I even disagree on sentence one.  If the statement is true, a kid like Meadows doesn't get major Div 1 looks as a freshmen in little ole 2A Southwest Virginia.  Same with Atkins at Ridgeview during his sophomore season.  My opinions on this Graham team are based on the talent of THIS Graham team compared to the OTHER Graham teams.  By the way, it's only an opinion.  Graham didn't play great at all against Bluefield in game one.  They've had a bunch of games in game one where they "played better."  As far as talent goes, that's another thing.  Does that equal a state title?  Nope.  Harrisonburg back in the early part of this century tells us that.  I'm only saying this...if Graham doesn't beat themselves in the form of 5 turnovers and over 110 yds in penalties, a team in Region D isn't going to beat them.  I think their level of play as far as very good football players and talent, speed, and athleticism is far enough ahead of the Region D this year, and that in order to beat them, it will take a 5 turnover game and 110-130 yds in penalties, and the opponent playing a near perfect game (one turnover at most and under 40 yds in penalties) to beat em..

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7 hours ago, Hokie1Pokie said:

I stated this last week after the Bluefield game. Also stated they won't be touched until they get to the semis. Having watched Graham for decades, it's the best Graham team I've seen on opening week against Bluefield since 1989. That usually means Graham will go a long way. 

2001???

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1 hour ago, Hokie1Pokie said:

We disagree on your very first statement.  I'm gauging it on the ability of the WR to get separation, to run a route, the lateral movement of a linebacker, the lateral movement of a QB, the hip twitch (fast or slow hips) of the DB from the time the ball is snapped, the ability of a Defensive lineman to get pressure when the Offensive lineman actually rose first and beat him off of the snap.  

All the measurables doesn’t mean anything unless he can compete and beat a guy with the same ability. Bluefield Scored 49 points a game just 6 years ago with a line consisting of 5’11 190, 6’2 215, 5’8 220 , 5’8 215, and 5’8 175. 3 made All State. Not one was even approached by a college coach.

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3 hours ago, CPF said:

Uh Radford was the 2nd best team in the state in 1989. Gave Graham fits in the two games they played and were lucky to win either of them. They also shut out the AA div 4 state champions in Blacksburg.So much for that weak schedule theory of yours. The 89 team was the best in school history, followed by the 2001 team. 2018 is 3rd,  and 4th is the 95 team. 

Mount View was still a year away from playing in a state championship and they could’ve handled you guys that year. Graham were just as good in 90 but they didn’t have the luxury of playing Rustburg at Mitchell. Some of the coalfield teams like the Man Hillbillies and Oceana Indians would’ve been tougher opponents than Tazewell and Richlands. How can you tell how good a team is when you play 7 or 8 games against opponents who play the same 7 or 8 teams you play? But that’s how it is having districts in the VHSL. 

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5 hours ago, BigWinners said:

 

C'mon man I know Union isn't quite the well oiled machine of 2017 and Graham certainly handled the Bears last year but you don't have to rub it in and say it'll be that easy lol. 

You guys may have the only defense on the rest of their regular season schedule that can keep the team in it. Their defense is just crazy good lol

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34 minutes ago, Eersfan said:

All the measurables doesn’t mean anything unless he can compete and beat a guy with the same ability. Bluefield Scored 49 points a game just 6 years ago with a line consisting of 5’11 190, 6’2 215, 5’8 220 , 5’8 215, and 5’8 175. 3 made All State. Not one was even approached by a college coach.

They can only play the teams in front of them. I think a lot of people get caught up in the teams of the past but the truth is kids receive better coaching and training at an earlier age now. The likelihood of one of the 80’s or 90’s teams competing against a top team today is not great. The game evolves like everything else. As far as these kids are getting to much hype, so far they are living up to it. Cam Allen is already getting playing time as a freshman and the Powell kid from bluefield is starting guard for central Michigan.

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12 hours ago, GMan said:

I have no bone to pick, just pointing out the fact that Tazewell does not have the speed you think they have.  We can let it go now...

Out of respect for the fact that you make the rules around here, I will leave the discussion with this. Nothing I stated had anything to do with “facts”. I have no recorded numbers to turn this into a “facts” discussion. It’s been my opinion from the beginning. Time will tell if anyone Graham faces the rest of the way, has more team speed than Tazewell.

This is my final statement on the matter. No disrespect intended, but if this gets me in trouble here, then so be it. We have a difference of opinion. 

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They don’t get better coaching now, just more of it. As the population has dropped, so has the talent level. Years ago the talent was spread a little more evenly. Freddy Simon only beat Mt View 2 times in his first 10 years at Beaver. After 2001 , Mt Views enrollment started to plummet due to the floods. Leon Gravely was able to get a couple wins against Bluefield  , the last in 2006. But all that displaced talent landed at Graham and Bluefield. A few went to Princeton. How good would Graham be without their transfers? How good would their opponents be if they still had those kids? If these coaches were so great, why import better players who have been coached elsewhere? When Richlands started raking in transfers after 2006, slowly Graham and Tazewell started to decline then the coal mines started closing. Which dried up the talent well surrounding Richlands. Which allowed Graham to become Grand Central Station once again. And Richlands is a wreck because they can’t get the talent to fit their system. Then there’s Tazewell , who has been picked clean of their talent by their neighbors for 15 years now.  I give those coaches credit though, they’ve plowed ahead and kept coaching while they’ve watched the other two load up on talent (some of it their kids) and that’s admirable . If  Tazewell finishes 6-4 or better and makes it to Region I consider it  a more newsworthy accomplishment than if Graham goes back to back state champs. 

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57 minutes ago, Gfan said:

They can only play the teams in front of them. I think a lot of people get caught up in the teams of the past but the truth is kids receive better coaching and training at an earlier age now. The likelihood of one of the 80’s or 90’s teams competing against a top team today is not great. The game evolves like everything else. As far as these kids are getting to much hype, so far they are living up to it. Cam Allen is already getting playing time as a freshman and the Powell kid from bluefield is starting guard for central Michigan.

Speed and Size right there. The evolution came with the spread offense. It turned rugby into full court basketball. As for kids landing in D1 schools. You can thank social media, recruiting agents and parents willing to pay for camps and combines. That wasn’t all available in the 80’s and 90’s. Back then you had better be on TV and in the newspaper to get noticed.  So it helps to be located near those outlets. Allen and Powell are talented kids. But it took the legwork of their family and some luck for them to get noticed. Mike Poole was given a scholarship to play football at Miami Fla partly due to a recommendation given to the coaches from Dennis Harrah. Harrah is a hall of famer from Stonewall Jackson. Poole is considered to be the best LB to ever play at Beaver. Imagine how much interest he would’ve got with the help of Camps, Combines and social media.

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12 minutes ago, Eersfan said:

They don’t get better coaching now, just more of it. As the population has dropped, so has the talent level. Years ago the talent was spread a little more evenly. Freddy Simon only beat Mt View 2 times in his first 10 years at Beaver. After 2001 , Mt Views enrollment started to plummet due to the floods. Leon Gravely was able to get a couple wins against Bluefield  , the last in 2006. But all that displaced talent landed at Graham and Bluefield. A few went to Princeton. How good would Graham be without their transfers? How good would their opponents be if they still had those kids? If these coaches were so great, why import better players who have been coached elsewhere? When Richlands started raking in transfers after 2006, slowly Graham and Tazewell started to decline then the coal mines started closing. Which dried up the talent well surrounding Richlands. Which allowed Graham to become Grand Central Station once again. And Richlands is a wreck because they can’t get the talent to fit their system. Then there’s Tazewell , who has been picked clean of their talent by their neighbors for 15 years now.  I give those coaches credit though, they’ve plowed ahead and kept coaching while they’ve watched the other two load up on talent (some of it their kids) and that’s admirable . If  Tazewell finishes 6-4 or better and makes it to Region I consider it  a more newsworthy accomplishment than if Graham goes back to back state champs. 

Bitter much....I only know of two transfers playing for Graham and I think they live in Graham’s district. Even without those two players Graham is still better than Tazewell and likely still in playoffs. The population has declined everywhere in this area. These teams would still beat the teams of 80’s and 90’s. They have a higher football IQ and are playing using more advanced concepts in middle school than those high school teams ran. Similar to the NFL the 49rs were great in the 80’s but wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs I theirs era.

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1 hour ago, Hokie1Pokie said:

Agree GMan, 2001 a close call. I like the defensive line and Lester to give this 19 team a slight edge over 2001. 

Reed Oaks, Paco Jones, Ahmad Bradshaw and H.T. Mathews.  I think I would put that offense up against anybody now a days.

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2 ? Really? Only 2 players have came to Graham to play football since their 9th grade year? And as for teams today being better across the board, not even close. Have you seen the Lebanon’s , Pikeviews and  other surrounding teams lately. I played on and against Jr High teams that could beat them. If a team has 1 kid that runs near a 4.4 40, they’re considered fast as a team. We had 2 tailbacks that ran a 4.4. And I remember facing teams that had guys just as quick. As for football IQs and advanced concepts, nope. They’re kids playing Madden that know just as much. And how come back in the 80’s, we would run multiple formations in a game such as a pro set, power and regular I, wishbone and flexbone, then also go spread in the shotgun. Nowadays it’s all out of the gun with way less deception. We played multiple front defenses back in the day were now most schools stick with a base defense most of the game. Usually a 3-3-5 if they happen to have more speed off the edge. As for the 49ers, the Patriots are still winning Super Bowls with the same offense

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9 hours ago, Gfan said:

Bitter much....I only know of two transfers playing for Graham and I think they live in Graham’s district. Even without those two players Graham is still better than Tazewell and likely still in playoffs. The population has declined everywhere in this area. These teams would still beat the teams of 80’s and 90’s. They have a higher football IQ and are playing using more advanced concepts in middle school than those high school teams ran. Similar to the NFL the 49rs were great in the 80’s but wouldn’t even sniff the playoffs I theirs era.

I disagree with Graham beating Tazewell without transfers. Lester was at Bluefield until he transferred to Graham in 10th grade.  Graham would be 5-5 at best without Lester.

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1 hour ago, crazyFB said:

I disagree with Graham beating Tazewell without transfers. Lester was at Bluefield until he transferred to Graham in 10th grade.  Graham would be 5-5 at best without Lester.

Lester is a Bluefield VA native originally. His father went to Graham High and played Hoops at Graham. His father lived in and was raised in the West Graham neighborhood/section of Bluefield, VA, and has always been a die-hard Graham fan. It's very common for people in Bluefield to live back and forth across the border over the years.  You could say Lester transferred if you want. That's fair. You could also say, he moved back home, where his family is from, Bluefield, VA. That's all I'm saying. Devin isn't originally from Bluefield, WV. He's originally from Bluefield, VA.

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11 hours ago, Eersfan said:

They don’t get better coaching now, just more of it. As the population has dropped, so has the talent level. Years ago the talent was spread a little more evenly. Freddy Simon only beat Mt View 2 times in his first 10 years at Beaver. After 2001 , Mt Views enrollment started to plummet due to the floods. Leon Gravely was able to get a couple wins against Bluefield  , the last in 2006. But all that displaced talent landed at Graham and Bluefield. A few went to Princeton. How good would Graham be without their transfers? How good would their opponents be if they still had those kids? If these coaches were so great, why import better players who have been coached elsewhere? When Richlands started raking in transfers after 2006, slowly Graham and Tazewell started to decline then the coal mines started closing. Which dried up the talent well surrounding Richlands. Which allowed Graham to become Grand Central Station once again. And Richlands is a wreck because they can’t get the talent to fit their system. Then there’s Tazewell , who has been picked clean of their talent by their neighbors for 15 years now.  I give those coaches credit though, they’ve plowed ahead and kept coaching while they’ve watched the other two load up on talent (some of it their kids) and that’s admirable . If  Tazewell finishes 6-4 or better and makes it to Region I consider it  a more newsworthy accomplishment than if Graham goes back to back state champs. 

Graham started to decline in 2006 due to shizzy coaching...that was post Carlock.  As Gate City has said the last few years, the kids were there, just not playing due to coaching.  It happens...Bluefield may find that out when Freddy decides to hang it up.

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4 hours ago, crazyFB said:

I disagree with Graham beating Tazewell without transfers. Lester was at Bluefield until he transferred to Graham in 10th grade.  Graham would be 5-5 at best without Lester.

Graham very well could be 9-1 without Lester this season, are you kidding me?

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14 hours ago, Eersfan said:

 If  Tazewell finishes 6-4 or better and makes it to Region I consider it  a more newsworthy accomplishment than if Graham goes back to back state champs. 

I'm not sure making the region is as newsworthy these days as in the past. SWD has four out of six teams go. If Tazewell ends ups in championship game, that will be more newsworthy in my opinion. I'm not taking anything away from them. I hope that have a great season. We can agree to disagree, I think back to back state championships would be more newsworthy than making the regionals where more than half the teams in district go & some have a losing record possibly. 

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4 hours ago, crazyFB said:

I disagree with Graham beating Tazewell without transfers. Lester was at Bluefield until he transferred to Graham in 10th grade.  Graham would be 5-5 at best without Lester.

Have you seen their defense? Even without Lester on defense, teams would be hardpressed (with the exception of Bluefield) to put up a ton a points against them. They have several playmakers on offense, get them the ball & they can score. I'm glad we have Lester. He's a weapon, a great athlete, an asset to the team but it's a stretch to think Graham would be 5-5 without him. It boils down to Graham's coaching staff has done a phenomenal job and the players have stepped up and put the work in to be prepared. A lot of them have really good "football" sense. 

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To me the biggest impact player on defense is Edwards. The kid is all over the field making tackles. Without the transfers Graham's defense would not be what it is. I don't count Lester as a transfer. Edwards, Ray, and Atkins all three make a big impact not only on defense but offense too. What kid that is standing on the sideline now could come in and make an impact the same way each of those 3 do? I don't know of any myself. I'm not saying Graham wouldn't be good but those 3 help tremendously.

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4 hours ago, GMan said:

Graham started to decline in 2006 due to shizzy coaching...that was post Carlock.  As Gate City has said the last few years, the kids were there, just not playing due to coaching.  It happens...Bluefield may find that out when Freddy decides to hang it up.

Wait, LHL was right?

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8 minutes ago, Mountain Football said:

To me the biggest impact player on defense is Edwards. The kid is all over the field making tackles. Without the transfers Graham's defense would not be what it is. I don't count Lester as a transfer. Edwards, Ray, and Atkins all three make a big impact not only on defense but offense too. What kid that is standing on the sideline now could come in and make an impact the same way each of those 3 do? I don't know of any myself. I'm not saying Graham wouldn't be good but those 3 help tremendously.

Everyone is acting like these kids transferred to Graham on their own just to play football for the gmen. But that is not the facts. Their parents had to move to bluefield for a reason. Ic might have been for the small town atmosphere,the smaller school and better school. Or it could have been for a job. None of us know why the kids transferred I would guess unless you know them personally but the point is they are at Graham and not at tazewell or any other school and speculating on if they could or could not win without them is a mute point. They beat tazewell. The game is in the past now Graham has Giles to face and tazewell has its next team to worry about.  So lick your wounds and move on

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