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#8 team in 3A decides not to play.


Real Sasquatch
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19 hours ago, SW_VA_boy said:

Im sure the OP meant Warren County.  However, I remember Warrenton being one of the schools to forfeit/refuse to play what would have been a state championship game vs Narrows back in the 30's. 

Haha you remember it? Haha

J/k

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This is our society today.  Society wants the easy way out.  Nobody wants to or has any fight left in them  This is a reflection of our country period.  I applaud every team that has been a low seed and gone and faced the music.  There are teams that have been willing, and eventually it has paid off.  

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On 11/11/2019 at 9:55 PM, Real Sasquatch said:

Sorry.  Warren County.  Apparently they only have only 23 healthy players and are citing this as their reason for not playing. "Stupid auto-correct".

Hell Tazewell played with 20 a couple years back. 

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On 11/12/2019 at 7:11 AM, sixcat said:

Narrows split the MED with Grayson County in 1998, not Pocahontas.  Pocahontas lost regular season district games to Fort Chiswell (25-10), Grayson County (28-14), and Galax (15-14).  They beat Narrows 36-28 while Narrows beat Grayson County 12-7.  Grayson and Narrows finished with one loss in district play each while Pocahontas lost 3 district contests. Pacahontas would lose to Covington in round 1 of the D1 playoffs 31-6.  Narrows beat Galax in the opening round of the playoffs 8-0 and lost to Covington the following week 41-8.  Grayson lost to Giles in the opening round of the D2 playoffs 28-21.

Credit to FourSeasonsFootball.com for score verification!

 

Agreed!  Grayson was 1A-Division 2 in 1998 and was never Division 1.  They would have never had the opportunity to play Narrows or Pocahontas in the postseason.  Grayson's enrollment in the late 90's would have been in the neighborhood of 700.  Virginia DOE statistics suggest an enrollment of 675 in 2003-2004, which is the farthest the statistics go back on the VADOE website.

Never Division 1 but they were in Single A.  D2 was a part of Single A and all other sports would have competed vs everyone else in Single A.

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45 minutes ago, Bulldogs52 said:

Hell Tazewell played with 20 a couple years back. 

Gate City has played with 35 or so all year. 

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1 hour ago, 1inStripes said:

Never Division 1 but they were in Single A.  D2 was a part of Single A and all other sports would have competed vs everyone else in Single A.

All other sports aren't football!  Narrows and Pocahontas would not have had to face Grayson in postseason play.  Which was the implication.  Or at least how some of us took it.

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To offer a slightly different perspective: Having 23 players on a 1A team and having 23 players on a 3A team are two different animals. On a 1A team the opposing team may have around 25-35 players. Your 3A opponent may have around 55-65 players.

*Totally made up those numbers for comparison.

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11 minutes ago, Great City said:

To offer a slightly different perspective: Having 23 players on a 1A team and having 23 players on a 3A team are two different animals. On a 1A team the opposing team may have around 25-35 players. Your 3A opponent may have around 55-65 players.

*Totally made up those numbers for comparison.

Robbie Norris when he coached at Sullivan North always said he just wanted around 50 players, he said that was the perfect amount to keep everyone interested and involved. He would go to NFL coaching clinics and learn how to use the 50 players he had. You don't have to have 90 kids, but you have to have depth at the higher levels. The school chose not to participate, now we will wait to ig if the VHSL does anything. The may set a bad precedent if it's not addressed!  

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8 minutes ago, SXSW said:

Robbie Norris when he coached at Sullivan North always said he just wanted around 50 players, he said that was the perfect amount to keep everyone interested and involved. He would go to NFL coaching clinics and learn how to use the 50 players he had. You don't have to have 90 kids, but you have to have depth at the higher levels. The school chose not to participate, now we will wait to ig if the VHSL does anything. The may set a bad precedent if it's not addressed!  

The VHSL tweeted that it actually has nothing to do with it. They said each region sets their own format and so it’s actually that region that allowed the 9th seed to take the 8th seeds place. I thought that was interesting that they admitted they don’t control what happens for the playoffs — just the formula to get the points. 

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30 minutes ago, Ryan4VT said:

The VHSL tweeted that it actually has nothing to do with it. They said each region sets their own format and so it’s actually that region that allowed the 9th seed to take the 8th seeds place. I thought that was interesting that they admitted they don’t control what happens for the playoffs — just the formula to get the points. 

OMT......Old Military Trick!  It provides a layer of insulation to the organization that is going to bear the brunt of criticism.  Nobody is going to criticize the Region but everyone will criticize VHSL.  Being able to say "it's not our decision" can be handy and effective insulation.  

With that said, I don't see anything VHSL could or should get involved with in this situation.

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The playoff system is broken, and I think everyone in this area is aware of that.  I am no genius, but there has to be a better system that could be put in place to find the best High School football team in their division. I played in the late 90s and early 00s and it was unheard of for a team with a losing record to make the playoffs, and sometimes possible for a team 9-1 or 8-2 to miss the playoffs.  No system is perfect, and that has been proven over time. I feel until $$$$ is not the top priority we will continue to see the broken playoff system used.

Number of students plays a huge determining factor with where a team is placed in a division, and all over SWVA, numbers are declining due to our biggest industry being coal and a lot of those jobs have went away. How often are the numbers looked at and compared?

It is not only the high school football playoff system that is broke, it is pretty bad for all sports.  It needs to be fixed so we are not handing out participation trophies and being soft to make sure everyone doesn't get left out. 

I am sure some of these #7 and #8 seeds are thinking do we really have to go and play another week, knowing what they are up against.  Sometimes upsets happen, but in all reality do you really think the kids on those teams think they have a chance to win a 1st round game, region championship, or a state championship?

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2 hours ago, Great City said:

To offer a slightly different perspective: Having 23 players on a 1A team and having 23 players on a 3A team are two different animals. On a 1A team the opposing team may have around 25-35 players. Your 3A opponent may have around 55-65 players.

*Totally made up those numbers for comparison.

On a 3A team your opponent may have 25 players also, but occasionally on a 1A team your opponent may have 50 players.  Either way you can only play 11 at a time.  Coach up what you have and let the chips fall where they may.  

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16 hours ago, sixcat said:

All other sports aren't football!  Narrows and Pocahontas would not have had to face Grayson in postseason play.  Which was the implication.  Or at least how some of us took it.

I didnt think playoffs were the implication at all there, just that a school with very limited numbers won a share of a district title over the course of an entire season, not 1-2 weeks of playoffs.

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I definitely wouldnt call the system broken, 1 additional week is added with some bad games and no deserving team will ever get left out. Its not perfect but broken is an overstatement imo.  

I still say a East/West format with only 8 teams per side. This season the 2A playoffs would be 

1 Ridgeview /  8 Richlands

4 Radford / Graham

3 Union / Gretna

2 Appomattox / Central

the worst record to make it is Richlands at 6-4.   Gretna to Union and Central to Appomattox are long trips but the others arent too bad

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55 minutes ago, redtiger said:

I definitely wouldnt call the system broken, 1 additional week is added with some bad games and no deserving team will ever get left out. Its not perfect but broken is an overstatement imo.  

I agree 100% red tiger! Just 2 years ago there was an 8-2 team on the road which just speaks to the depth of the region that year. Some years it’s going to be really competitive and some years (like this one) a team that isn’t very good is going to sneak in. I’ve said this on this board multiple times more football is not a bad thing. An 8 seed is going to lose to a 1 seed most of the time BUT those younger guys on that team had the opportunity to have an extra week of practice and most likely some game experience when things get out of hand and that goes so far in developing a program. Now if you tap out and forfeit a playoff game because you don’t wanna be embarrassed take you whistle, pack up your sh** and get outta coaching you don’t deserve to lead young men. 

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1 hour ago, 1inStripes said:

I didnt think playoffs were the implication at all there, just that a school with very limited numbers won a share of a district title over the course of an entire season, not 1-2 weeks of playoffs.

Semantics, I suppose!  Narrows won MED titles on several occasions.  They have some very good teams from time to time.  The same can be said for Burton, Castlewood, Surry, Covington, Franklin, Parry McCluer, etc. etc. etc.  All of which have enrollment figures at or below Narrows.  Enrollment figures of the other schools in those respective districts are irrelevant.  Beat the teams on your schedule, you usually win district titles and reach postseason play. I would also point out, the period following the advent of the Three Rivers District left the MED arguably the worst district in Virginia regardless of classification.  It didn't matter who won the district, they rarely made it past the opening round of the playoffs.  Where they usually were beaten into submission. 

Not sure what other district Grayson was supposed to go into?  How about Fort Chiswell?   Floyd, Giles and Graham were in the MED for a period of time.  When I graduated from Grayson in 1992, the MED was Grayson, Galax, Narrows, Fort Chiswell, Auburn, Shawsville, Giles, Bland, Rocky Gap and Floyd.  Many schools across SWVA have seen wild enrollment fluctuations over the past few decades.  Galax was AA when I was in elementary and middle school while Independence and Fries were always in the MED.  The New River District consisted of Narrows, Galax, Giles, Carroll, George Wythe, Blacksburg, Christiansburg, Floyd and Radford.

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1 hour ago, redtiger said:

I definitely wouldnt call the system broken, 1 additional week is added with some bad games and no deserving team will ever get left out. Its not perfect but broken is an overstatement imo.  

I still say a East/West format with only 8 teams per side. This season the 2A playoffs would be 

1 Ridgeview /  8 Richlands

4 Radford / Graham

3 Union / Gretna

2 Appomattox / Central

the worst record to make it is Richlands at 6-4.   Gretna to Union and Central to Appomattox are long trips but the others arent too bad

A 6 team Region bracket would make more sense. Top 2 seeds get a by-week first round.

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25 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

A 6 team Region bracket would make more sense. Top 2 seeds get a by-week first round.

I despise the entire concept of bye weeks in high school football.  6 team regions do solve the problem of truly unworthy teams getting in but gives an unfair advantage to the schools getting byes. A week to rest after a long season while the other teams are fighting their guts out against strong competition is HUGE imo. 

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2 hours ago, redtiger said:

I despise the entire concept of bye weeks in high school football.  6 team regions do solve the problem of truly unworthy teams getting in but gives an unfair advantage to the schools getting byes. A week to rest after a long season while the other teams are fighting their guts out against strong competition is HUGE imo. 

Life's not fair in many ways but the top seeds usually earn their seat at the table by playing a tough schedule and wining. It should give teams motivation to play a tough schedule and win. With what we have now you could stack your schedule with weak competition and cruise into the playoffs well rested. 

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13 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

Life's not fair in many ways but the top seeds usually earn their seat at the table by playing a tough schedule and wining. It should give teams motivation to play a tough schedule and win. With what we have now you could stack your schedule with weak competition and cruise into the playoffs well rested. 

In my opinion, we have a lot of teams content with dominating a weak-as-pond-water district, winning a few games in a watered down playoff format, losing by 55 when they eventually meet quality competition, and calling themselves a successful program.  But that's just my opinion!

The playoffs should be shortened by a week.  For the VHSL, it's a money grab.  Therefore, 15 games to win a state championship it is!

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4 teams per region make the playoffs, problem solved. No 2A team in Virginia seeded 5th or lower has ever won a state title since Virginia expanded from 3 levels of play to 6 levels of play back in 1986.

I would wager that for all teams statewide for all 6 levels 1A through 6A, the number of teams winning state titles that were 5th seed or worse has not happened more than 10 times. I know Appy at 5-5 and even Salem a couple of years back were 5-5 and I imagine these teams were 5th seed or lower, but still it's the exception to the rule. This is why 4 teams making the playoffs per region is perfect. Yes, it would mean Richland's would be staying home this year, but again, how likely are they to win a state title this year? It's incredibly unlikely.

Now, will the VHSL change and subtract to 6 or 4 teams? No chance. 

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