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I believe that is true to a degree, but the teams that do it well do so because of their execution.  I believe that they keep it simple and can do it without much thought. 

I would love to see how Union teaches the T, or the various wing teams teach their offense. The contrast in styles is what makes football so interesting. 

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It all depends on your players honestly. If you got guy that can make plays in space then spread it out and let them go to work if you dont then the ground and pound formations work out in your favor. Look at Gate Citys last 2 games. They scored 57 points in the first 5 games running spread. They scored a 115 in the single wing the last 2. I know a lot of that have to do with who they play. Marion and Lee struggled of D most of the year and that helped out a lot but single wing and wing T comes down to 2 things, are your tougher than your opponent for 48 minutes and can the defense play assignment football. If you are tougher than the other team the second part really doesnt matter honestly. I think more team are going to the spread because it there is so much more that you can do as far as moving people around and getting a numbers advantage and that is what makes spread teams hard to defend IF you got the cats out side to make you pay for 1 on 1 coverage and a mobile QB to get the ball to them. If you are coaching against a single wing or wing T team it boils down to here are there 6 plays read your keys and be tough SOBs 

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It looked like an advantage this past Saturday. @redtiger touched on it in another thread and I think he's right. When a team is used to playing against mostly "spread" teams it's an adjustment when you go against a team that executes power football like a Union, Giles, Central, etc. The way some of those old Giles teams come off the ball was really impressive. 

When you go back and watch the Graham/Union game there was arm tackling or attempted arm tackling from the 2nd quarter on. More than once defensive lineman were going towards the LBs backwards at a high rate of speed. Tough for a LB to make a play like that. That last play of the game will forever haunt me. Lol

Spread is probably an offense thats more "fun" to watch but for us old farts watching a team run it down another team's throat is also enjoyable. Just wish it didn't happen Saturday 😂😂

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15 minutes ago, Mountain Football said:

 

When you go back and watch the Graham/Union game there was arm tackling or attempted arm tackling from the 2nd quarter on. More than once defensive lineman were going towards the LBs backwards at a high rate of speed. Tough for a LB to make a play like that. That last play of the game will forever haunt me. Lol

Spread is probably an offense thats more "fun" to watch but for us old farts watching a team run it down another team's throat is also enjoyable. Just wish it didn't happen Saturday 😂😂

If I were part of the Graham coaching staff especially defensive coaches, I’d be highly ummmmm...frustrated ! You knlw those boys have been taught how to tackle and put effort into it! 

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1 minute ago, Gridiron60 said:

If I were part of the Graham coaching staff especially defensive coaches, I’d be highly ummmmm...frustrated ! You knlw those boys have been taught how to tackle and put effort into it! 

Someone commented earlier in another thread that the kids at Graham should be glad they have the coaches they have. I can GUARANTEE you Tony Palmer, Isabelle(was a man in the 9th grade), Rick Disibbio, Rex Bradshaw, Mike Horton 1. Would not play like that and 2. Would not coach kids to play like that. I would have made a change maybe on defense. Would it have changed the outcome? Maybe not. Those kids were in position to make plays and didn't make them. I know I'm gonna hear it from the "they are children" crowd but it is what it is.

I may have to put myself in timeout. Im getting pissed all over again🤣🤣

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Its a different style of football for sure. In terms of preparation its pretty much impossible for a scout team to replicate the speed of Centrals offense, or the physicality of Unions. Wise Central is Wing T and Union is Straight T (they do motion the Half Backs around some) their plays aren't the same and what they're trying to do isn't the same. Scout teams cant replicate it in practice, because 7 game scout of 10 a scout team player is playing Slot WR who catches passes and runs Jet, well Union week hes asked to lead block on Belly or Dive off tackle. He's not going to be able to do that, as where the other 7 weeks he can play Slot WR like he would rather do and is comfortable doing. 

At the same time Corners and Safeties want to cover in space, Union and Central force to to become box defenders. That was very evident in the Union/Graham game, none of Grahams DBs wanted to come up and put a shoulder in any of Unions RBs or their QB(when running from the gun). Its hard to go from covering speed like Tazewell and Graham have in the open field to tackling bruising RBs like Union has. 

 

@Mountain Football I like the games that pit two run based teams against each other because with that grinding approach 1 big play can be the difference, as where with spread pass happy teams it seems like there are a bunch of big plays. In movie terms its the difference between a thriller and a horror movie. The horror movie has a higher kill count but the thriller is more intense.

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18 minutes ago, redtiger said:

Its a different style of football for sure. In terms of preparation its pretty much impossible for a scout team to replicate the speed of Centrals offense, or the physicality of Unions. Wise Central is Wing T and Union is Straight T (they do motion the Half Backs around some) their plays aren't the same and what they're trying to do isn't the same. Scout teams cant replicate it in practice, because 7 game scout of 10 a scout team player is playing Slot WR who catches passes and runs Jet, well Union week hes asked to lead block on Belly or Dive off tackle. He's not going to be able to do that, as where the other 7 weeks he can play Slot WR like he would rather do and is comfortable doing. 

At the same time Corners and Safeties want to cover in space, Union and Central force to to become box defenders. That was very evident in the Union/Graham game, none of Grahams DBs wanted to come up and put a shoulder in any of Unions RBs or their QB(when running from the gun). Its hard to go from covering speed like Tazewell and Graham have in the open field to tackling bruising RBs like Union has. 

 

@Mountain Football I like the games that pit two run based teams against each other because with that grinding approach 1 big play can be the difference, as where with spread pass happy teams it seems like there are a bunch of big plays. In movie terms its the difference between a thriller and a horror movie. The horror movie has a higher kill count but the thriller is more intense.

The Gate City highlights someone posted last week was a lot of fun to watch. 

You mentioned it being hard for a Scout team to replicate a Wing T or a Straight T. Is it equally as hard for a say Union Scout team to replicate the Spread?

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8 minutes ago, Mountain Football said:

The Gate City highlights someone posted last week was a lot of fun to watch. 

You mentioned it being hard for a Scout team to replicate a Wing T or a Straight T. Is it equally as hard for a say Union Scout team to replicate the Spread?

Ill have to watch the GC highlights. 

Absolutely almost impossible for them to replicate, like I said I think where defenses see the spread more often they're well practiced against it. Run based teams are "contrarian" in these times. They gain an advantage just by being different.

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I'm not sure it's quite as impossible since Union also runs quite a bit of spread concepts so the players on scout team aren't unfamiliar with the plays and concepts. The scout team likely doesn't execute it anywhere near a team like Graham can do and the athletic difference comes into play but they can at least run the plays since they know the plays to start with. 

Union isn't in the T 100% of the time, it's been more this year but in years past the ratio has been more in favor of the spread style.

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Of the teams remaining in AA most if not all of the run heavy teams do run some spread concepts(they will all need it at some point) but they base out of the following:

Central - Wing-T 
Union - T

Appomattox- Split Veer
Glenvar- Spread

Stuart's Draft - Pistol Double Wing
Strasburg - T

Poquoson- Wing-T 
Amelia - Spread

As these offenses become more popular again they lost some of their intrinsic advantage but right now they're not that popular and are having some success.

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3 hours ago, redtiger said:

Of the teams remaining in AA most if not all of the run heavy teams do run some spread concepts(they will all need it at some point) but they base out of the following:

Central - Wing-T 
Union - T

Appomattox- Split Veer
Glenvar- Spread

Stuart's Draft - DTDW Pistol
Strasburg - T

Poquoson- Wing-T 
Amelia - Spread

As these offenses become more popular again they lost some of their intrinsic advantage but right now they're not that popular and are having some success.

The last couple seasons are the first I can remember where Union has moved from having a spread base and using the T when the game dictates to the opposite. Even in 2017, when Mitchell was forced into the QB role, they ran outta the gun in a more single wing style. I think it's a choice really made by the roster as opposed to the coaches, the talent has been at RB more so than at the outside skill positions so they adjusted and moved into the T a lot more often. I'm not 100% sold Union can solely rely on the T to win at the highest levels, gotta be able to throw to gain chunks and play from behind if needed, but they've been successful doing it this year. But I imagine if in the fall, Turner feels that he can more effectively challenge defenses with more spacing and get reliable QB play, the spread will become default and the T will be used in short yardage/goal line like years past.

That's why teams like Appomattox and Wise are so damn good, they're rarely asked to play from behind or face long yardage situation but they're able to convert when they do out of their base offense. 

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The other thing people have to take into account with the spread offenses is some schools will basically use the run game from it using wishbone principals.  Just another wrinkle added to things to keep your mind on and develop keys for.  At the end of the day, it still creates a run game that dictates Defenses to play assignment football eventually.

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54 minutes ago, SW_VA_boy said:

The other thing people have to take into account with the spread offenses is some schools will basically use the run game from it using wishbone principals.  

A lot of 2 back Shotgun offenses really run Wishbone plays

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2 hours ago, SW_VA_boy said:

The other thing people have to take into account with the spread offenses is some schools will basically use the run game from it using wishbone principals.  Just another wrinkle added to things to keep your mind on and develop keys for.  At the end of the day, it still creates a run game that dictates Defenses to play assignment football eventually.

That was basically Unions offense in 2017 when Turner, the starting QB, went down and Mitchell was taking snaps at QB. 

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11 hours ago, Friday Night Lights said:

Had a conversation with someone who played for the single wing for Harry Ragsdale  in Narrows back in 58 and he said the key to their success was the lineman and their blocking schemes. Great conversation. 

Right before easily the most successful run Narrows High ever had before or since.  Damn shame there wasn't a playoff system back then.  

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Heard a coach on the radio a few years back, answer a question about preparing to play Giles and the single wing. He said it used to be more difficult, because the ball was snapped to the backfield and it would be the only time all year you would see that. But now, with teams running spread and more formations out of shotgun, it's not so unusual. 

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