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Union vs Graham


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Of Unions 400 or so total ydss, about 150 came from fooling Graham. Graham can and will adjust simply by film on the quick pitch that outflanked Graham and the QB keepers. Union has about 250 of its total yds of the gashing type last night. 

Of Graham's roughly 350 yds, Union wasn't fooled. No misdirection. This again is why I favor Graham in a second match. Graham's QB ceiling/improvement and Graham not giving up about 150 yds that were by being fueled, not gashes that can be adjusted for with film. Union completed 4 first downs on this game in which they had 3rd down and 14 yds or more. That won't happen again if the two play.amynofnthese long third down conversions were outflanking Graham, QB keepers, just fooling Graham, and not gashing them off tackle. The gashing occured in the fourth quarter.

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11 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

Obviously did not want to see us lose this game, but if we play twice I'd rather lose this one than the next.

Were there a lot of penalties? Yep.

Were a couple bogus? Yep.       

Did they affect the outcome? Nope.

3 plays lost this game... the bad snap/fake, whatever it was on the punt... the fumble, when we had all the momentum, about to go up 2 scores... and the ultra conservative play calls on the possession before Graham scored the go ahead TD.

If the Bears can make it through Richlands, Ridgeview, Abingdon and Central unscathed, we'll definitely meet again. Congratulations to the GMen!

Thats they way i saw it also, about 4 plays with two of them just plain out being bad play calls. That one passing play deep with two recievers open and the QB throws it to the furthest down field was a bone head. The closer reciever would have had blocks into the endzone and no coverage on him at all.

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23 minutes ago, vtdavis4321 said:

Of Unions 400 or so total ydss, about 150 came from fooling Graham. Graham can and will adjust simply by film on the quick pitch that outflanked Graham and the QB keepers. Union has about 250 of its total yds of the gashing type last night. 

Of Graham's roughly 350 yds, Union wasn't fooled. No misdirection. This again is why I favor Graham in a second match. Graham's QB ceiling/improvement and Graham not giving up about 150 yds that were by being fueled, not gashes that can be adjusted for with film. Union completed 4 first downs on this game in which they had 3rd down and 14 yds or more. That won't happen again if the two play.amynofnthese long third down conversions were outflanking Graham, QB keepers, just fooling Graham, and not gashing them off tackle. The gashing occured in the fourth quarter.

Rematch might not happen lots of good teams left who might have a say in that one

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Holy cow, just watched the film.  Several terrible calls,  but at the same time had some that got caught holding.  2 obvious, lead back#3 squared a guy up and pancakes him, another called on #21 not questionable but called, saw several that were called,  not giving numbers but they did it.  On the other hand, it's like any other game,  it can be called on any play on either team! Good game,  can't wait until November! The good news for both teams,  that crew is out for Tommy John surgery, iced elbows after that one lol.

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12 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Holy cow, just watched the film.  Several terrible calls,  but at the same time had some that got caught holding.  2 obvious, lead back#3 squared a guy up and pancakes him, another called on #21 not questionable but called, saw several that were called,  not giving numbers but they did it.  On the other hand, it's like any other game,  it can be called on any play on either team! Good game,  can't wait until November! The good news for both teams,  that crew is out for Tommy John surgery, iced elbows after that one lol.

Your story, no offense, is the oldest one in the book.  You can take ANY game ever played in the history of football from little league to the NFL and go back and watch the tape/film, and find calls that may not have been holds or illegal blocks, etc, and more important, you can easily find the no calls that were holds, etc.  It's to easy dude.  In the end, good calls and bad calls in football games wash out.  This means that across the country, across the board, when considering 1000 games, the Refs for the most part get it right.  It's to easy to take one individual game and run with it.  

Union in my opinion, got away with More holds than they were called for in that game.  This wasn't talked about much because the story was Graham's big play and speed and Union's smashmouth run game with both having success, but another story was evident in that game.  Union had lots.......and I mean,......lots of trouble actually blocking Graham on many plays that required holding to avoid a big loss on plays that went laterally.  Up front, off tackle in the second half, no holding by Union there.  They were having success with the quick hitters off tackle, but throughout the game, a bunch of the plays that Union ran that went laterally, around the ends had lots of grabbing and tugging of jersey..  I think Union got away with a bunch of no-call, 50-50 calls for holds.  This doesn't mean the officials made bad calls.  They were 50-50 holding type calls I think on Union that Union received the benefit of the doubt more than Graham and that wasn't intentional by the officials, it's just the way the ball bounces. A 50-50 call also means it's not automatically a hold.  Just the way it was called.

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1 hour ago, vtdavis4321 said:

Your story, no offense, is the oldest one in the book.  You can take ANY game ever played in the history of football from little league to the NFL and go back and watch the tape/film, and find calls that may not have been holds or illegal blocks, etc, and more important, you can easily find the no calls that were holds, etc.  It's to easy dude.  In the end, good calls and bad calls in football games wash out.  This means that across the country, across the board, when considering 1000 games, the Refs for the most part get it right.  It's to easy to take one individual game and run with it.  

Union in my opinion, got away with More holds than they were called for in that game.  This wasn't talked about much because the story was Graham's big play and speed and Union's smashmouth run game with both having success, but another story was evident in that game.  Union had lots.......and I mean,......lots of trouble actually blocking Graham on many plays that required holding to avoid a big loss on plays that went laterally.  Up front, off tackle in the second half, no holding by Union there.  They were having success with the quick hitters off tackle, but throughout the game, a bunch of the plays that Union ran that went laterally, around the ends had lots of grabbing and tugging of jersey..  I think Union got away with a bunch of no-call, 50-50 calls for holds.  This doesn't mean the officials made bad calls.  They were 50-50 holding type calls I think on Union that Union received the benefit of the doubt more than Graham and that wasn't intentional by the officials, it's just the way the ball bounces. A 50-50 call also means it's not automatically a hold.  Just the way it was called.

Exactly...people go back and watch film in slow motion and "find" all kinds of penalties...it's usually the losing team too but not always.

Bad calls gonna happen, nobody is perfect...but everyone is perfect when you slow film down and dissect every play...refs doing it at full speed in game

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On 9/17/2021 at 11:53 AM, vtdavis4321 said:

Of Unions 400 or so total ydss, about 150 came from fooling Graham. Graham can and will adjust simply by film on the quick pitch that outflanked Graham and the QB keepers. Union has about 250 of its total yds of the gashing type last night. 

Of Graham's roughly 350 yds, Union wasn't fooled. No misdirection. This again is why I favor Graham in a second match. Graham's QB ceiling/improvement and Graham not giving up about 150 yds that were by being fueled, not gashes that can be adjusted for with film. Union completed 4 first downs on this game in which they had 3rd down and 14 yds or more. That won't happen again if the two play.amynofnthese long third down conversions were outflanking Graham, QB keepers, just fooling Graham, and not gashing them off tackle. The gashing occured in the fourth quarter.

So the fact Union had 2+ long TDs called back, a fumble on the 12 going into ice game the game, won at the LOS, and aside from three ST gaffes had Graham beat means nothing?.

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"Means Nothing" are your words.  They aren't mine nor anyone else's I've read on here. Since you are asking the question of what Union did and it's meaning.  My answer would be it means Something, but not everything.  It means about 250 of Union's yds were the gashing type on Graham, and 150 yds were fooling Graham (something Graham can adjust for by watching film).  Based on this, I think Graham actually has a slight edge in game two compared to Union.   It's a very reasonable opinion I think to have.  I respect anyone's opinion who would think Union has the edge in game two.  It is what it is.

 

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15 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

So the fact Union had 2+ long TDs called back, a fumble on the 12 going into ice game the game, won at the LOS, and aside from three ST gaffes had Graham beat means nothing?.

About the same as Union winning last year’s game against Graham while Graham had multiple players out and coming off a COVID pause.

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FOOLING GRAHAM,we have run the SAME offence ever year, 5 to seven plays thats it .UNION just lines up and comes at you, no fooling anyone , EVEN PALMER SAID THAT.GRAHAM WON.....END OF STORY, move on ,ifs and buts candy and nuts MOVE ON, The score is the only thing that matters  "JUST WIN BABY"

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31 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

About the same as Union winning last year’s game against Graham while Graham had multiple players out and coming off a COVID pause.

And yet Graham had Their star back, we're at home and still barely escaped with a win.  You do realize in the spring game, Unions QB had maybe a.good week of practice coming off basketball right?  Keep beating that chest, let's see how much ND loves the effort given in defense by the star recruit. Union had three chances to ice the game and coaching decided to do something dumb (punt to Bradshaw, not go on fourth and three and not feeding Lomax inside the 15). 

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I would have taken a healthy non covid protocol Graham team over Union in the spring. I really thought Union would've won this last game. To me, Graham's spring team was better than this year's team because of Fritz and Dales. The starters we lost played more of a role than what some believe in my opinion. 

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8 minutes ago, Mountain Football said:

I would have taken a healthy non covid protocol Graham team over Union in the spring. I really thought Union would've won this last game. To me, Graham's spring team was better than this year's team because of Fritz and Dales. The starters we lost played more of a role than what some believe in my opinion. 

And yet…Graham emerged victorious still.  Exactly the point I made Thursday night.  Graham lost much more and still prevailed.

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38 minutes ago, jarhead24219 said:

FOOLING GRAHAM,we have run the SAME offence ever year, 5 to seven plays thats it .UNION just lines up and comes at you, no fooling anyone , EVEN PALMER SAID THAT.GRAHAM WON.....END OF STORY, move on ,ifs and buts candy and nuts MOVE ON, The score is the only thing that matters  "JUST WIN BABY"

Your statement is very true.....Partially.  You wrote, "Union just lines up and comes at you."<-------------that's true, Most of the time  Union actually, DID NOT always just "line up and come at Graham."  A QB keeper on 3rd and 19 on Union's first series down 7-0 and a run for 50 yds was not "just lining up and coming at Graham."   That was 50 of Union's approximate 400 yds.  A play that fooled Graham.  It was a play where Graham got outblocked or beat one on one, just simply fooled.  The quick pitch play where Union outflanked Graham on 3rd and 17 from their own 33 was not running off tackle down Graham's throat.  That was simply outflanking Graham.  The pass by Union where Graham had decent coverage but the ball thrown very well but even a better catch for nearly 50 yds.  <------That wasn't just lining up and running down Graham's throat.  

I think I made my point above. 

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39 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Graham made big plays when needed, but if the Union staff had done a few things differently, it would not have mattered

Now this here, we agree on.  I don't question that a bit.  What I do question is......round 2.  I say it again, Union had a LOT....a whole LOT of fooling Graham, NON GASHING off tackle yards in the form of passing, QB keepers, quick pitch simply outflanking Graham and Graham's D not adjusting.  Yes, this counted and yes, it mattered and happened, but those things are fairly easy to prepare for in watching film study for round 2.  That's all I'm saying.  As to who should have won the game and who outplayed who.  I give Union the edge in round one.  

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One last point as for fooling Graham or call it what you want if you are into the semantics game.  Whether Graham not adjusting or whatever, Union, 3rd and 19 and down 7 to nothing and already on the ropes with about 10.5 minutes to play in the first quarter and the QB fake/keeper around the end for about 50 yds where Graham over pursued and totally bit on the fake?  If that is not being fooled and you reach a conclusion other than simply calling it for what it is, being fooled, then someone is either mentally retarded, blind, or just oblivious.  Now, did the play count?  For sure it did.  Good call by Union?  Heck ya.  Did it spark Union to go down the field and tie the game 7 a piece?  Heck ya it did.  But........is it something that might....keyword....MIGHT......just have a hard time replicating in a second game against Graham since Graham, like most every other team in the country watches film?  You and I both know the answer to that question, and this is my original point with why I favor Graham in a rematch.  Union gashed Graham for a quarter and 1/2 of that game (which counts) but it's not 4 quarter.  Much of Unions yardage came from great play design, fooling Graham or call it what you want, Graham not adjusting with the sweeps, simply being outflanked which is easily correctable in the film room for game two.   

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32 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

And yet…Graham emerged victorious still.  Exactly the point I made Thursday night.  Graham lost much more and still prevailed.

lolol okay big guy whatever you sag. 

 

21 minutes ago, Real Sasquatch said:

Graham threw an INT in the end zone and had some costly penalties as well.  

Two huge iffy penalties that took points off The board? The INT sure, but that's BC the QB threw into.coverage. Not quite the same as fumbling unassisted going into ice the game. 

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16 minutes ago, vtdavis4321 said:

Now this here, we agree on.  I don't question that a bit.  What I do question is......round 2.  I say it again, Union had a LOT....a whole LOT of fooling Graham, NON GASHING off tackle yards in the form of passing, QB keepers, quick pitch simply outflanking Graham and Graham's D not adjusting.  Yes, this counted and yes, it mattered and happened, but those things are fairly easy to prepare for in watching film study for round 2.  That's all I'm saying.  As to who should have won the game and who outplayed who.  I give Union the edge in round one.  

We will see. You can't just fix being dominated up front but who knows. 

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30 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

We will see. You can't just fix being dominated up front but who knows. 

It was more of a linebacker issue for Graham in my humble opinion.  They played too close to the line, over pursued, got caught up in traffic and had a lot of broken "arm" tackles. 

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2 hours ago, BigWinners said:

We will see. You can't just fix being dominated up front but who knows. 

I agree BigWinners.  I do agree.  Here's the thing in my opinion (only my take dude, just an opinion on a message board like anybody else), the second game, assuming the two meet again comes down to 2 things in my opinion which hinge some from game one to base a guess (only a guess).  Two things happened with Union against Graham.  Much of Union's yards, about 150 of the 400 came from things that Graham can fix in the film room and were not gashing, down your throat domination.  About 250 of the 400ish yds came from gashing, down your throat, nothing Graham can do to fix it even if watching film.  I think Graham fixes the 150 yds in the film room and Union WILL Gash Graham in the second game, but only some.  They will not do it for 4 quarter and they didn't do it for 4 quarter in game 1.  That gashing will not be enough to overcome Graham's offensive improvement, especially with the QB who is only getting better rapidly by the day.  Now, this is just my take on it.  A pure opinion, but I am giving some evidence to at least form my opinion which is what I was instructed to do in college years ago.  

I also admit and respect other's takes and admit I probably would be in a minority for picking these two in game two.  There is lots of time between now and then, and things from injuries to Covid to upsets, but if the game were played today, I imagine most would probably pick Union and I respect that.  I also agree 100% Union probably should have won the first game, but big plays are apart of the game and Graham is a big play team.  But, because Union should have won the first game doesn't mean I'm picking them to win the second one.  I gave my reasons (opinions like anyone else ) why.

Just my take on it.  Only a message board with another opinion and nothing more.  Tons of time between now and then.

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