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PowerPoint Standings Class 1/2 Reg C/D 9-21-2021


Union_Fan
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Taking the top 4 from each district seems kind of stupid.  There are ONLY 3 teams in Region D that don't make the playoffs with the 8 team format.  There are six 2A teams in the M7 and five 2A teams in the Southwest, so that means 8 of 11 make it.   What's the point in taking the top 4 in each district, if you only have 11 teams which means 3 only miss out.  Might as well go with the power points.  If you had 15 teams in the region instead of 11, then ok, I get the point of taking the top 4 in each district, but with 11 teams, this already means 8 are getting in.  

Instead of starting on the premise of "who makes the playoffs" in Region D.  As long as there is an 8 team format, the premise should start out with ..."which of the 3 teams out of 11 in Region D don't make it."  Now, if  you go ahead and assume Marion and Lee for 2 of those 3 than don't make it...(which is almost a given each year) then you really can make it easy and it's down to the one team left that doesn't make it.  John Battle is the frontrunner.

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Ive said it before and ill say it again, the way to do this is go back to the West/East setup but take 8 from each instead of 16. Ive yet to see a case where the top 8 allows anyone truly "undeserving" in or leave a "deserving" team out.  And I liked the +1 setup so keep that.

 

This season your playoff teams would end up with the West looking something like:

Appomattox, Glenvar, Floyd, Radford, Graham, Union, Central, and Ridgeview. 

I love having a Regional Champion but the above setup makes for some really good football in every round.

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1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

Yep! Maybe 2 is too few, 4 is too many, and 3 is too hard because of the bye that would be needed. In reality, top 4 ensures that the #1 seeds get a "tune-up" game for the 1st round while the 2 and 3 seeds battle their hearts out. I'd rather include a "bad" team than leave out a good one.

I will agree with that plus the fact that sometimes a bad team really isn't bad and gets it worked out by then and can make a real run.

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1 hour ago, redtiger said:

Ive said it before and ill say it again, the way to do this is go back to the West/East setup but take 8 from each instead of 16. Ive yet to see a case where the top 8 allows anyone truly "undeserving" in or leave a "deserving" team out.  And I liked the +1 setup so keep that.

 

This season your playoff teams would end up with the West looking something like:

Appomattox, Glenvar, Floyd, Radford, Graham, Union, Central, and Ridgeview. 

I love having a Regional Champion but the above setup makes for some really good football in every round.

That has been tried and done. There was that set up, and people complained to go back to the Region format.  You had 1 vs 16, and 2 vs 15 etc.  People complained because of travel.  Now it is back to Regional.  People need to make up there mind!

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1 hour ago, 1Wingit23 said:

Would be Great if there was a Giles/Narrows rematch in the playoffs the first year Giles dropped to 1A!!

As much as I would love to see that happen for the first time in history, I don’t think it will. I know it’s early but I see Narrows as a 4th seed at best. Galax and Giles have pretty much secured the top 2 seeds as they should both finish at 8-2 and GW will probably get the 3 seed. Narrows would likely play Galax in the second round and Giles/GW would rematch which would be another barn burner. If Giles can somehow outpoint Galax for the top seed then it is possible for a Giles/Narrows rematch but with Galax beating Radford that likely won’t happen.

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5 hours ago, FoxTrot said:

That has been tried and done. There was that set up, and people complained to go back to the Region format.  You had 1 vs 16, and 2 vs 15 etc.  People complained because of travel.  Now it is back to Regional.  People need to make up there mind!

16 teams was horrible, too many long trips for terrible unevenly matched games. 1-8 would be more travel but man would the games be great!

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7 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Isn't Lee still last 2D team to beat them years ago?

Yep, a truly bizarre trivia piece considering where their programs are right now.  Lee was 8-2 that season, and Appo was 6-4.  I don't think the script has flipped as decisively in SWVA history as it did with those 2 schools.  That would end up being the last game Appo lost for over 2 years, and Lee has lost 25 straight with just 18 total wins in the last 6.5 seasons.

 

That's also the only playoff game Lee has won since 1997.  

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5 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

Yep, a truly bizarre trivia piece considering where their programs are right now.  Lee was 8-2 that season, and Appo was 6-4.  I don't think the script has flipped as decisively in SWVA history as it did with those 2 schools.  That would end up being the last game Appo lost for over 2 years, and Lee has lost 25 straight with just 18 total wins in the last 6.5 seasons.

 

That's also the only playoff game Lee has won since 1997.  

That's wild.  And 97 was Lee in the D4 final four. 

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38 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Thought you were meaning Division 2 in general. Graham would have in 2018, and really should have in 2019.

I'll give you 2018 Graham winning.  I think we were better than Radford (5 turnovers and lost by 3) but I'm not sure we were up to graham level that year.

Now, 2019 we beat them 28-13.  Were they talented, you bet, BUT so were we.  They lost a few plays to penalties but I think we held them to 3-4 first downs the whole second half.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Thought you were meaning Division 2 in general. Graham would have in 2018, and really should have in 2019.

Graham was the beneficiary of "a refusal by the officials to let Graham have any momentum."  2 TD's called back, First and 10 and rips off a 25 yard gain, but...holding or clip leaving the GMen to start with a 1st and 20 or 1st and 25 which effectively killed the drive.  It happened time, after time, after time throughout the game to where Appo had the momentum and it didn't matter, if Graham made a play, you could guarantee there would be a flag on the field.  I realized how good the Bradshaw kid was when I watched him for the first time against Appo.  I was at that game and was blown away with how talented he was.  I think he had one, maybe 2 TD's called back in that one and he broke once and it looked like the Appo defense was standing still and that ain't easy.  Appo is fast, but Bradshaw, even as a sophomore, was electric.

No offense to Union as the Bears are very solid and an excellent program.  I'm hopeful Graham kind of wins the region.  I have no dog in the fight over Graham or Union, but I Want to see just one time.......an Appo team come west where they are not in the confines of Region C and there is no question about officials, and they come west to a team that is just as athletic.  I've seen Graham over the years bounce teams at Mitchell from the likes of Rustburg, William Campell, Liberty Bedford, etc, that were all supposed to be and they were, super athletic, but Graham also has athletes.  50/50 though on Graham wining the region.  Union of course, but Ridgeview and even Central, Central is good enough to actually come out on top of the region.  It's not out of the question.  I hope they smash the he&& out em.  But.....that's a tall task for anyone.

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1 minute ago, BoBob said:

I'll give you 2018 Graham winning.  I think we were better than Radford (5 turnovers and lost by 3) but I'm not sure we were up to graham level that year.

Now, 2019 we beat them 28-13.  Were they talented, you bet, BUT so were we.  They lost a few plays to penalties but I think we held them to 3-4 first downs the whole second half. 

 

The 3 long pass plays turned that 2019 game.  It looked like Graham spent exactly 0 seconds working on defending any sort of passing attack.  Appo's far from a run-and-shoot team but they've shown enough competency to respect the pass.  Apparently Graham's coaching staff didn't think so.  Graham had the better athletes, Appo was better prepared.  

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14 minutes ago, BoBob said:

I'll give you 2018 Graham winning.  I think we were better than Radford (5 turnovers and lost by 3) but I'm not sure we were up to graham level that year.

Now, 2019 we beat them 28-13.  Were they talented, you bet, BUT so were we.  They lost a few plays to penalties but I think we held them to 3-4 first downs the whole second half. 

 

On that day Appo was better, but after seeing Graham 2 times that year, they played horribly that game. Didn't look like the team I'd seen at all. I think losing their defensive player right before the game killed their mojo. Also, Appo got very lucky on 2 TD passes. QB just threw it up for grabs twice into the end zone and was fortunate that he completed it.

I'll agree that Appo deserved to win that game. The "Graham should have won" comment I made came from believing that Graham was a better team that year than they displayed. It happens though, the best team doesn't always win the game, but the best team THAT day does.

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28-13 isn't close to what happened.  Graham had 5, not 3, not 4, not 6, but 5 drives in that game on first down where there was either a hold on first down or a block in the back on first down.  5 times.  That means you start 5 possessions either 1st and 20 or 1st and 25ish depending where the flag was thrown.  2 were legit, 3 were not.  The officials didn't "give" the game to Appo and nothing intentional or malice.  But, they DID get caught up in the emotion of the contest and they absolutely REFUSED to let Graham take the momentum.  Graham had 2 touchdowns called back and played against 12, not 11.  Yea, I stand by that.  Horribly officiated game. In addition to forcing Graham to get an average of about 17 yards each possession for a first down, they called back 2 TD's.  One not even close to a flag, and one legit.  If that game were played on a neutral field, the outcome would have been one decided in the final minutes.  So in my opinion, I actually don't think Appo actually deserved to win the game.  I think they benefited greatly from officiating (not intentional) but they benefited.  Graham was just as good.  Graham blew them off the ball regularly, yet that didn't matter.  Hands to the face?  Not a problem.  That was called once also.

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6 minutes ago, vtdavis4321 said:

Graham was the beneficiary of "a refusal by the officials to let Graham have any momentum."  2 TD's called back, First and 10 and rips off a 25 yard gain, but...holding or clip leaving the GMen to start with a 1st and 20 or 1st and 25 which effectively killed the drive.  It happened time, after time, after time throughout the game to where Appo had the momentum and it didn't matter, if Graham made a play, you could guarantee there would be a flag on the field.  I realized how good the Bradshaw kid was when I watched him for the first time against Appo.  I was at that game and was blown away with how talented he was.  I think he had one, maybe 2 TD's called back in that one and he broke once and it looked like the Appo defense was standing still and that ain't easy.  Appo is fast, but Bradshaw, even as a sophomore, was electric.

No offense to Union as the Bears are very solid and an excellent program.  I'm hopeful Graham kind of wins the region.  I have no dog in the fight over Graham or Union, but I Want to see just one time.......an Appo team come west where they are not in the confines of Region C and there is no question about officials, and they come west to a team that is just as athletic.  I've seen Graham over the years bounce teams at Mitchell from the likes of Rustburg, William Campell, Liberty Bedford, etc, that were all supposed to be and they were, super athletic, but Graham also has athletes.  50/50 though on Graham wining the region.  Union of course, but Ridgeview and even Central, Central is good enough to actually come out on top of the region.  It's not out of the question.  I hope they smash the he&& out em.  But.....that's a tall task for anyone.

That happened in 2017. Union's little "punt play", where they stand up and get back down on punt formations, has been done by them MANY times since 2011. Appo jumped offsides when they did it that game, and Union got flagged for illegal motion. The ONLY time ever after dozens of times doing it. Bear fans still feel raw over that! haha

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i've never been a fan of Semifinal contests on home fields.  It's not about officials "intentionally" making bad calls.  For the overwhelming majority of officials, there is no ill intent.  Does it happen some?  Of course.  If you can cheat on your wife, you can throw a false flag.  You don't have swayed morality in one area of your life, and them somehow be completely 100% solid on a moral compass in other areas of your life.  It doesn't work that way.  Officials are human, but by in large, the overwhelming percentage of the time, officials try to get it right.  The problem is......High School Officials are amateurs compared to the NFL or Pro's.  This means, they are far, far more likely to get caught up in the emotion of the event and that can possibly lead to unintentional bad calls in big games where there is tons of emotion.  Again, they are not robots, they are humans.  The feel the emotion of event in a game such as Graham vs Bluefield with 10,000 just like any fan does.  They try to tune this out and do a great job of it, but emotion still seeps in.  It's inevitable.  It's just the way it is.  This is why I would love to see semi final contests played on neutral sites with a mixed crew evenly divided from each region competing.

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17 hours ago, redtiger said:

16 teams was horrible, too many long trips for terrible unevenly matched games. 1-8 would be more travel but man would the games be great!

I remember Union spanking Gretna 42-7 in 2015. Prior to that game I was hoping for a thriller given Gretna’s recent history to that point, even with their struggles for a few seasons. But I hoped Gretna would have at least been competitive at some point early. After the first Union drive it was clear that the game would be a blowout. Gretna didn’t have the faintest thing that night. 

I left after halftime .

 

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Even on here a SWVA forum folks say that Graham plays undisciplined at times.  I can tell you for sure that on the punt return in that game that there was an illegal block  (two in fact) one was a block in the back that wasn't called but then the blind side block was called.

One time we converted a 3rd and 7 when Graham had 12 men lined up (not a guy running off) that wasn't called.  

Not sure how you can say the refs didn't "allow" Graham to take momentum when your third play from scrimmage they allowed a 62 yard pass play to stand.  Not saying it shouldn't have stood just saying it wasn't flagged.  Then in the 2nd quarter that long play to Bradshaw stood.

 

I'll concede that athlete to athlete you guys were stacked and probably were better, but it was said above our coaches had our kids prepared to play disciplined football and saw areas in the defense that they could exploit and we did, scoring on plays where we simply created confusion and had kids WIDE OPEN for scores. 

 

26 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

That happened in 2017. Union's little "punt play", where they stand up and get back down on punt formations, has been done by them MANY times since 2011. Appo jumped offsides when they did it that game, and Union got flagged for illegal motion. The ONLY time ever after dozens of times doing it. Bear fans still feel raw over that! haha

I can't see how you guy can do that BUT I know that you have down it a bunch and didn't get called, so I'm not sure why they called it that day. 

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19 minutes ago, BearsFan88 said:

I remember Union spanking Gretna 42-7 in 2015. Prior to that game I was hoping for a thriller given Gretna’s recent history to that point, even with their struggles for a few seasons. But I hoped Gretna would have at least been competitive at some point early. After the first Union drive it was clear that the game would be a blowout. Gretna didn’t have the faintest thing that night. 

I left after halftime .

 

I felt sorry for them that game. Bus broke down, no fans came to support them, hostile environment, and looked completely lost in every facet.

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