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On 11/11/2021 at 6:40 PM, BigWinners said:

And missed Appomattox to do it. That's not to denigrate Graham winning a title whatsoever, only using it show how important timing is. Union basketball benefited greatly from timing this past year, as did Graham in 2018. My point was I don't see a significant gap between Graham and Union over the last five or ten years as programs. The state title clearly puts Graham ahead, but I don't see it as a sizable gap. 

Exactly right timing is everything.  Union just had to deal with an Appomattox program with one of the best 2a teams ever.  Unions 2017 team in just about any other year wins state.  And like you said nothing against Graham they to me are the better program but not by much they just always have 1 or 2 freaking athletes who make a difference at our level

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1 hour ago, goose111874 said:

Exactly right timing is everything.  Union just had to deal with an Appomattox program with one of the best 2a teams ever.  Unions 2017 team in just about any other year wins state.  And like you said nothing against Graham they to me are the better program but not by much they just always have 1 or 2 freaking athletes who make a difference at our level

I feel like if Mitchell and Jeb and then were seniors in 2018 as opposed to 2017, that title probably sitting in BSG right now. Graham beat us pretty handily (28-7 IIRC) but nothing liked the 37-0 we put on them the year before. I feel like we probably don't win state in basketball if we had to travel, the refs woulda called it tight and that hurts Union, but we were fortunate and the trophy still there. Same for Graham. The timing matters. Until someone in 2D beats Appomattox and wins a title, it's hard to say one team is on that much of a higher tier.

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1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

I feel like if Mitchell and Jeb and then were seniors in 2018 as opposed to 2017, that title probably sitting in BSG right now. Graham beat us pretty handily (28-7 IIRC) but nothing liked the 37-0 we put on them the year before. I feel like we probably don't win state in basketball if we had to travel, the refs woulda called it tight and that hurts Union, but we were fortunate and the trophy still there. Same for Graham. The timing matters. Until someone in 2D beats Appomattox and wins a title, it's hard to say one team is on that much of a higher tier.

Graham will beat them if they play this season

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  • 4 weeks later...
 
6 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Some have probably already seen, but Rye Cove will be needing a football coach.

Surprised by them getting rid of Cheyenne, seemed like he had things trending in the right direction there...

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11 minutes ago, cityofRaven said:

Surprised by them getting rid of Cheyenne, seemed like he had things trending in the right direction there...

I know this was his 2nd stint, and from what I understand, including talking to a kid that played for him his 1st go around, he had the same problem. Low numbers and overall, kids didn't want to play for him.

Not sure why, and don't have any 1st hand knowledge.

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1 hour ago, Union_Fan said:

I know this was his 2nd stint, and from what I understand, including talking to a kid that played for him his 1st go around, he had the same problem. Low numbers and overall, kids didn't want to play for him.

Not sure why, and don't have any 1st hand knowledge.

 I don’t think his style of play gets kids excited to come out for football and that’s the ultimate challenge at small schools. They aren’t going to attract many coaches but think they should go after a young coach who may get a better turn out. 

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12 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

 Low numbers and overall, kids didn't want to play for him.

 

That was the reason given but I think their numbers in this year's upper grades have always been low, their 8th and 9th grade classes have quite a few players.  

 

10 hours ago, 276 for the win said:

 I don’t think his style of play gets kids excited to come out for football and that’s the ultimate challenge at small schools. 

They were running the Single Wing and were punching above their weight(playing with Union in MS/JV and dominating Cumberland teams). The next guy may go Spread like everyone else but I doubt he will be able to get any more kids out than are already playing in those lower grades. The issue there may not be kids wanting to play in that offense,  but parents questioning the offense in front of their kids.

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1 hour ago, redtiger said:

That was the reason given but I think their numbers in this year's upper grades have always been low, their 8th and 9th grade classes have quite a few players.  

 

They were running the Single Wing and were punching above their weight(playing with Union in MS/JV and dominating Cumberland teams). The next guy may go Spread like everyone else but I doubt he will be able to get any more kids out than are already playing in those lower grades. The issue there may not be kids wanting to play in that offense,  but parents questioning the offense in front of their kids.

As a player, I would have loved to play in a single wing or any misdirection offense. I think that would be more fun than the spread. Union kids love the T. They've mentioned it in interviews several times over the years.

Hard to say what pleases kids these days.

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4 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

As a player, I would have loved to play in a single wing or any misdirection offense. I think that would be more fun than the spread. Union kids love the T. They've mentioned it in interviews several times over the years.

Hard to say what pleases kids these days.

RB and OL love the T, I guarantee WRs  and QBs don’t.  Also, those kids can’t speak to running other offenses if they never have.  

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3 minutes ago, SwvaOG said:

RB and OL love the T, I guarantee WRs  and QBs don’t.  Also, those kids can’t speak to running other offenses if they never have.  

They've run some version of the spread or pro set since 2014.

If the playbook were opened up more, there would be plenty of action to go around, even from the T.

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23 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

They've run some version of the spread or pro set since 2014.

If the playbook were opened up more, there would be plenty of action to go around, even from the T.

I love the concept of a base “identity” offense that is used 75-80% and a few variation formations that is used 20-25%….packages, etc.  just as Union needs to mix some more modern concepts and packages, RV is a team that could use a red-zone- under-center power package.  

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4 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

As a player, I would have loved to play in a single wing or any misdirection offense. I think that would be more fun than the spread. Union kids love the T. They've mentioned it in interviews several times over the years.

Hard to say what pleases kids these days.

I hear what you are saying but I think there are more attractive alternatives to accomplish the same things. The Gun wing T has really taken off lately, 2 back formation with a TE, etc. the single wing can be effective but I think it’s too outdated in relation to getting kids excited to come out. If there was an abundance of success at Rye Cove running it previously then I think it would be no issue. 

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15 minutes ago, 276 for the win said:

I hear what you are saying but I think there are more attractive alternatives to accomplish the same things. The Gun wing T has really taken off lately, 2 back formation with a TE, etc. the single wing can be effective but I think it’s too outdated in relation to getting kids excited to come out. If there was an abundance of success at Rye Cove running it previously then I think it would be no issue. 

I'm not sure what the answer is for RC, but an energetic, enthusiastic and positive coach seems to work these days. 

Kids are completely turned off by the old school, cussing, yelling coaches. 

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The current JR and SR class has struggled with numbers since youth ball. The current 7th-10th grade classes have more traditional numbers. Will probably have around 30 out next year unless one name I am hearing gets the job. Then they may have them early but it won’t last long most likely.  
 

This young group coming up is what many have looked forward to for awhile at RC. Cheyenne has helped groomed them and along with a good group of youth coaches. There hadn’t been any of those young ones leaving because of Cheyenne. 
 

With the right hire RC is looking at strong 3-4 year run with the foundation that’s been put in place.  With the wrong hire a certain school board member is where the blame should be laid. 

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1 hour ago, 276 for the win said:

I hear what you are saying but I think there are more attractive alternatives to accomplish the same things. The Gun wing T has really taken off lately, 2 back formation with a TE, etc. the single wing can be effective but I think it’s too outdated in relation to getting kids excited to come out. If there was an abundance of success at Rye Cove running it previously then I think it would be no issue. 

The differences between the Gun Wing-T with 2 WRs without RPOs and the Single Wing with 1 WR(how RC was operating) are minimal. Same blocking schemes, same plays. Only real difference  is what it's called. One is "modern" while the other is "outdated". RC hasn't had a QB that could run a RPO offense, the past few seasons they really only had 1 legit offensive threat with some complimentary players. 

 

Again, "getting kids to come out" is parents running their mouths about things they don't understand and kids reflecting that. 

Maybe Osborne should have marketed what he was doing better?

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Guys just want to weigh in on this. SO if you do what everyone else to get kids out what happens if they dont lke the weight room and want to do something else? What if they hit too much in practice? No offense but RC does not have a spread type athletes in my opinion. Today Riverheads is playing and do they throw? Do they tell Casto what to run? How about last Monday night when the Patriots threw 3 passes? Has Belecheck lost it? the best teams playing today for the state championship will run the ball in my opinion. I know Graham is dynamic and give there coach credit for using his athletes but to criticize the rc coach for single wing shalll I say Giles?

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The thing that will get kids out at RC and keep them out is the same thing that does it elsewhere…winning. With RCs attendance numbers and football numbers, they don’t need an O or D where they will be wearing their players out running them up and down the field. Their D needs to be simple and easy to learn…with success based on effort and discipline. On O they need a ball control system that enables them to shorten the game, so they can be in it late and decide it then. Whoever offers that, is who they should go with.

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Any offensive schemes works if you have the right kids to run it and or have a coach that can coach it. RC just doesn’t have great athletes l. From what I’ve seen they need to be in a ground and pound time offense. Motioning the oline every other play is a new one to me but I never played in a single wing so maybe that’s something that works. It’s just hard to compete when you have 17 kids when you have teams in the same classification that have 35. They need a coach that can get kids out. They can run the air raid if they want if they have a dude that knows it and can get that program up to 30 kids

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