Jump to content

should union get a new head coach


tarheel1217
 Share

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, foosballer said:

And that there is the reason PV lost their mojo. It was never Phil Robbins it was Barry Jones.....where did Barry go after PV? Gate City?....How did GC do from 2000 till he left there?

 

Travis Turner needs to find his Barry Jones....defense wins championships! 

Jesus I despise that argument. They needed each other. Jones was in no way an offensive guy, he needed someone on the other side who could run the program as a HC and decide on offensive strategy. 

He went to GC in 2000, yeah they were soooo bad then 😕 they won a state title three years before  they didn't need Jones to put them over the top, they had a!ready reached the top. IIRC, after the "break up', Jones won one state title as a DC at GC, Phil played for one state title as a HC. I don't believe Jones was there in 2010 but I could be wrong. 

Phil won 300 games and seven state titles but sure, he was just a scrub with a clipboard and Jones deserves all the credit lolol that's so dumb. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
4 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

I've been saying this for years!

Then you've been wrong for years. 

 

It's been proven out pretty clearly Jones was much more of a fit as a coordinator, not a head coach. Phil on the other hand did everything a head coach is supposed to do as well as running things on offense. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
3 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Then you've been wrong for years. 

 

It's been proven out pretty clearly Jones was much more of a fit as a coordinator, not a head coach. Phil on the other hand did everything a head coach is supposed to do as well as running things on offense. 

I figured that would get you fired up! haha

I have talked to fans and former players for 20 years, and you are in a very small minority. Jones was the DC, and a VERY good one at that, but many people don't realize how much he had to do with the offensive side of the ball as well. Barry's problem, as a head coach, was his bluntness and his lack of coddling punks and babies. Phil was good at running interference, schmoozing and catering to people. I'll give him that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
12 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

I figured that would get you fired up! haha

I have talked to fans and former players for 20 years, and you are in a very small minority. Jones was the DC, and a VERY good one at that, but many people don't realize how much he had to do with the offensive side of the ball as well. Barry's problem, as a head coach, was his bluntness and his lack of coddling punks and babies. Phil was good at running interference, schmoozing and catering to people. I'll give him that.

I've also been around the program for nearly 30 years, talked to players from the mid 80s til now, and not one has mentioned Jones as being super involved on offense. He was a defensive guy, he might work a bit with the OL, but from what I've gathered over the years, Phil let him do whatever he wanted on defense while Phil ran the offense. You make it seem like Phil was a big time people pleaser,that wasn't Phil at all. He was very good at raising money for the program, getting what they needed, etc but Phil's attitude was not easy to deal with at times. Phil had an ego, Barry had an ego, and eventually they needed to go different ways. Simple as that. If Jones was the HC at PV from 1985-2000, I doubt he wins nearly as many state titles. If Jones was not the DC during that period, PV doesn't win as many titles. People also vastly understate Phil's acumen as a coach, people always take shots at him. But every PV team that won a state title averaged at least 30 PPG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
38 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

I've also been around the program for nearly 30 years, talked to players from the mid 80s til now, and not one has mentioned Jones as being super involved on offense. He was a defensive guy, he might work a bit with the OL, but from what I've gathered over the years, Phil let him do whatever he wanted on defense while Phil ran the offense. You make it seem like Phil was a big time people pleaser,that wasn't Phil at all. He was very good at raising money for the program, getting what they needed, etc but Phil's attitude was not easy to deal with at times. Phil had an ego, Barry had an ego, and eventually they needed to go different ways. Simple as that. If Jones was the HC at PV from 1985-2000, I doubt he wins nearly as many state titles. If Jones was not the DC during that period, PV doesn't win as many titles. People also vastly understate Phil's acumen as a coach, people always take shots at him. But every PV team that won a state title averaged at least 30 PPG.

That's what I mean by schmoozing. He was good at getting what he needed from the influential and wealthy people of BSG, but to the regular Joe, yea, not very popular.

You and I have had this discussion several times, and we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I didn't pull this opinion out of thin air. Over the years, I have worked with MANY of Phil's peers in various ways, and I have a lot of inside information. I'm going easy on him compared to what some of them have had to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
53 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

Jesus I despise that argument. They needed each other. Jones was in no way an offensive guy, he needed someone on the other side who could run the program as a HC and decide on offensive strategy. 

He went to GC in 2000, yeah they were soooo bad then 😕 they won a state title three years before  they didn't need Jones to put them over the top, they had a!ready reached the top. IIRC, after the "break up', Jones won one state title as a DC at GC, Phil played for one state title as a HC. I don't believe Jones was there in 2010 but I could be wrong. 

Phil won 300 games and seven state titles but sure, he was just a scrub with a clipboard and Jones deserves all the credit lolol that's so dumb. 

Yap ole Phil took all the credit.....all the way to the hall of fame. But he wouldn't have had the teams he had in the non-Thomas/Julius years if it hadn't been for the defenses those teams had. From personal experience as a player, Phil lost more chances at state titles due to his offensive schemes and ego.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
2 hours ago, foosballer said:

And that there is the reason PV lost their mojo. It was never Phil Robbins it was Barry Jones.....where did Barry go after PV? Gate City?....How did GC do from 2000 till he left there?

 

Travis Turner needs to find his Barry Jones....defense wins championships! 

Gate City? Let’s talk about Gate City. They played for a state championship in 1994 and lost to John Handley 12-7. 
 

They were 7-3 before losing to Graham in the second round of the Division 3 playoffs in 1995. 
 

They went 10-0 before losing a heartbreaker against Brookville in the Division 3 state semis in 1996. A team that is considered one of the best Gate City teams that didn’t win state. 
 

The 1997 team was a team of destiny. Going 8-2–losing to Appalachia and PV the respective Division 1 and 2 champions—and winning the Division 3 state championship. 
 

1998 3-7. Not their standard at the time. 
 

1999 10-0. Lost against Brookville in the D3 semis. 
 

2000 10-0. Lost against Rustburg in the D3 semis. 
 

I believe Jones began coaching Gate City as a DC in 2001. 
 

It’s not like Gate City was a shitty team prior to Jones as a DC. I am certain his touch helped Gate City. 
 

Powell Valley had graduated a slew of talent. Going against JJ Kelly in 1999, PV had gone in thinking they would have the game won by halftime and got upset. Then lost a close one against Gate City a week later. Almost dropped one against Coeburn and spanked Appalachia. Then they lost first round against Clintwood. 
 

PV wasn’t bad in 2000. Nobody west of Roanoke was beating Honaker. Heath Miller. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
 
 
On 11/21/2021 at 9:47 AM, BearsFan88 said:

I think Turner just needs to clean house. 
 

But here’s the rundown of how the playoffs have ended. 
 

Here are the losses. 
 

2011 Stuarts Draft 17-15 Round 1

2012 Stuarts Draft 28-21 Round 2 (A game in which Union was fooled by how many onside and squib?)

2013 Gate City 24-14 Round 2 (Gate City peaked at the right time and Union fizzled)

2014 Glenvar 19-9 Round 2 (Glenvar won state)

2015 Clarke County 43-15 State Semi 

2016 Appomattox 43-0 State Quarter (Appomattox won state)

2017 Appomattox 23-20 State Semi. (Union honestly should have won but came up short. Appomattox won state)

2018 Graham 28-7 Round 2. Graham won state.
 

2019 Graham 48-7 Round 2. 
 

Spring 21 Appomattox 51-20 State Semis. Appomattox won state. 
 

2021 Graham 48-13 Round 2. 
 

Most of those seasons we lost to a team that was simply better. Some of the games we lost were winnable and had something turned out differently we would have advanced.  

The Clarke Co and Stuarts Draft onside kick game where 2 of the most ridiculous coaching jobs ever but no way he should be fired they just need to work on opening up offensive playbook and get a new DC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
5 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

That's what I mean by schmoozing. He was good at getting what he needed from the influential and wealthy people of BSG, but to the regular Joe, yea, not very popular.

You and I have had this discussion several times, and we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I didn't pull this opinion out of thin air. Over the years, I have worked with MANY of Phil's peers in various ways, and I have a lot of inside information. I'm going easy on him compared to what some of them have had to say.

I'm very aware of how Phil's peers view him. I can only think of one coach who seemed chummy with him in the entire region. Phil has an ego, Phil would cater to some to ensure the program was well funded, etc.. I have no false illusions about him. But I also recognize his ability to coach football is very, very good. Every town has the stories about the rich kids playing over the supposedly more talented poorer kids and in some ways, that happened at PV just like it happened everywhere else. But anyone who knows Phil knows how much he HATES losing. Abhors it. He hates losing way more than he enjoys winning and if Phil thought he could make a lineup change and start winning more, it's happening. His threshold for appeasing the snob knob crew only went so far, at the end of the day he wanted to win. Think about all the great PV players: how many were from wealthy families? Significantly lesser than those who came from middle class or lower households. 

 

But to deny any credit for Phil is ridiculous. He wasn't just going to fundraisers and schmoozing. His teams were always well prepared, confident, and knew what they were trying to do. He was spreading the field and playing a spread offense in the early 2000s. He knew the best way to attack an opposing defense. You don't win as much and as often as Phil did if he was a bad coach. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
5 hours ago, foosballer said:

Yap ole Phil took all the credit.....all the way to the hall of fame. But he wouldn't have had the teams he had in the non-Thomas/Julius years if it hadn't been for the defenses those teams had. From personal experience as a player, Phil lost more chances at state titles due to his offensive schemes and ego.     

What years? I'm extremely curious. In 2004, they made the state title game and had two of their best guys get hurt in the first half and were out. In 2001, they lost a razor close playoff game to GC. I'm not sure any other years post 1998 you could say PV had enough talent to win a state title. I'm not asking when you played, you don't have to say who you are, I'm just asking because I was around for almost all of the post JJ years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
48 minutes ago, BigWinners said:

What years? I'm extremely curious. In 2004, they made the state title game and had two of their best guys get hurt in the first half and were out. In 2001, they lost a razor close playoff game to GC. I'm not sure any other years post 1998 you could say PV had enough talent to win a state title. I'm not asking when you played, you don't have to say who you are, I'm just asking because I was around for almost all of the post JJ years. 

1st. 1983 he was handed a state champion team with a seinor named 40 Jackson. He laid an egg in the playoffs vs Parry McCluer.

2nd. 1986 the defending state champs had an undefeated season got blown out by Garden a team they should have beat.

3rd. 1993 got beat in the mud bowl at Haysi in region D championship because he refused to run the I formation, opting instead to run a motion centric double wing to placate Thomas Jones a sophomore who didn't like being behind an all-state senior at running back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

 

 

But to deny any credit for Phil is ridiculous. He wasn't just going to fundraisers and schmoozing. His teams were always well prepared, confident, and knew what they were trying to do. He was spreading the field and playing a spread offense in the early 2000s. He knew the best way to attack an opposing defense. You don't win as much and as often as Phil did if he was a bad coach. 

His teams always expected to win. I was telling a D-B fan friend of mine after their first loss to Alcoa that one of D-B's problems is that they don't expect to win games like that. D-B had a lead late and could have salted the game away with a first down. They didn't make it, and you could see their body language say "we're going to lose".....and Alcoa went down and scored the game winning TD, then picked off a D-B pass to seal the win. I told him that the old PV/Appy/Gate City teams always expected to win when they took the field, even if they were an underdog. Alcoa was/is the same way. That was the least physically imposing Alcoa team I'd ever seen, but at no point in that game did those kids believe they would lose. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
39 minutes ago, foosballer said:

1st. 1983 he was handed a state champion team with a seinor named 40 Jackson. He laid an egg in the playoffs vs Parry McCluer.

2nd. 1986 the defending state champs had an undefeated season got blown out by Garden a team they should have beat.

3rd. 1993 got beat in the mud bowl at Haysi in region D championship because he refused to run the I formation, opting instead to run a motion centric double wing to placate Thomas Jones a sophomore who didn't like being behind an all-state senior at running back.

86 was a bit of a miracle run for Garden. The next week they beat Clintwood who went 8-2 in the season. Getting smoked by Virginia High and PV scoring late in the 4th to win at Clintwood. (I do remember PV fans running on the field after that win).  Another side note according to fourseasonsfootball.com, Garden lost to Man, WV, Pennington Gap, and Twin Springs. Wonder what the playoff seeding system in 1986 was because at 7-3 you’d think they should’ve been at PV


93 if I recall correctly was a pretty good Haysi team.  I always wondered why they didn’t use Jones much on that team. Most people in the old LPD knew those PV teams were coming. The next 2 teams were dominant. Especially 1995, which in my opinion was the best PV team of all time. Even though I’ve heard consistently 1998, but don’t forget 1989. That team was very good as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
1 hour ago, foosballer said:

1st. 1983 he was handed a state champion team with a seinor named 40 Jackson. He laid an egg in the playoffs vs Parry McCluer.

2nd. 1986 the defending state champs had an undefeated season got blown out by Garden a team they should have beat.

3rd. 1993 got beat in the mud bowl at Haysi in region D championship because he refused to run the I formation, opting instead to run a motion centric double wing to placate Thomas Jones a sophomore who didn't like being behind an all-state senior at running back.

1983 was His first season. Can you really faulty any coach for not winning it all in year one? I do agree w ith  you, with Forty Jackson they were prob the best team. But was that really on his ego or him being first year at PV?

1986, I am inclined to agree. Before my time but most PV believe they were way better than Garden.

1993, it was the elements that beat PV. Mud slowed down their rushing attack. And why would you ever fault Phil for getting TJ involved? He has 10,000 career NFL rushing yards, he deserved some carries even as a sophomore behind Bishop. You kinda took a shot at TJs character and that I won't stand for. Ask anyone in BSG, TJ was one of the nicest, most humble hard working players in VA history. His character is above reproach. Greg Bihsop was a very good RB, but he wasn't Thomas freaking Jones dude. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
1 hour ago, Melvin said:

His teams always expected to win. I was telling a D-B fan friend of mine after their first loss to Alcoa that one of D-B's problems is that they don't expect to win games like that. D-B had a lead late and could have salted the game away with a first down. They didn't make it, and you could see their body language say "we're going to lose".....and Alcoa went down and scored the game winning TD, then picked off a D-B pass to seal the win. I told him that the old PV/Appy/Gate City teams always expected to win when they took the field, even if they were an underdog. Alcoa was/is the same way. That was the least physically imposing Alcoa team I'd ever seen, but at no point in that game did those kids believe they would lose. 

It faded a bit when he was Phil was near the end,  but from 1988 until 2004 or so, PV expected to win every single game. They just knew they were great and they beat most teams just getting off the bus and that's a testament to Phil and Barry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
 
 
 
 
6 hours ago, BigWinners said:

1993, it was the elements that beat PV. 

No, it was Haysi that beat them. 

You're trying to say that the elements (which really werent that bad, especially compared to the next week vs Giles) hurt PVs rushing offense more than Haysis? Both of those teams threw the ball around quite a bit.  Come on man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
14 hours ago, foosballer said:

Yap ole Phil took all the credit.....all the way to the hall of fame. But he wouldn't have had the teams he had in the non-Thomas/Julius years if it hadn't been for the defenses those teams had. From personal experience as a player, Phil lost more chances at state titles due to his offensive schemes and ego.     

I will say that Phil is an asshole but he was a great coach. 
 

Over 300 career wins. Only missed the playoffs twice, 1984 and 1991. Coached them to state titles number 2 through 8. Came close to beating a loaded Manassas Park in 2004. 
 

Found ways to win. Yeah he sucked ass 🙄

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 
 
13 hours ago, BearsFan88 said:

Gate City? Let’s talk about Gate City. They played for a state championship in 1994 and lost to John Handley 12-7. 
 

They were 7-3 before losing to Graham in the second round of the Division 3 playoffs in 1995. 
 

They went 10-0 before losing a heartbreaker against Brookville in the Division 3 state semis in 1996. A team that is considered one of the best Gate City teams that didn’t win state. 
 

The 1997 team was a team of destiny. Going 8-2–losing to Appalachia and PV the respective Division 1 and 2 champions—and winning the Division 3 state championship. 
 

1998 3-7. Not their standard at the time. 
 

1999 10-0. Lost against Brookville in the D3 semis. 
 

2000 10-0. Lost against Rustburg in the D3 semis. 
 

I believe Jones began coaching Gate City as a DC in 2001. 
 

It’s not like Gate City was a shitty team prior to Jones as a DC. I am certain his touch helped Gate City. 
 

Powell Valley had graduated a slew of talent. Going against JJ Kelly in 1999, PV had gone in thinking they would have the game won by halftime and got upset. Then lost a close one against Gate City a week later. Almost dropped one against Coeburn and spanked Appalachia. Then they lost first round against Clintwood. 
 

PV wasn’t bad in 2000. Nobody west of Roanoke was beating Honaker. Heath Miller. 

I was at nearly every game on the this list. The two that stick out the most were the 96 game with Brookville, it rained so hard you couldn't see across the field. Shoemaker the QB got a concussion and was the holder on PAT's, he has the biggest hands ever and the backup QB dropped two snap on PAT's and GC lost 13-12. and the 2000 Rustburg semi in a sleet and rain storm had the ball inside the twenty several times and fumbled into the end zone. But what coach Jones did was stabilize things I had several conversations with him at little league games and loved the way he could explain and teach football and make it interesting. He is the DL and OL coach at Westridge in Sullivan County and the OL and DL were dominate this year, just saying. Oh and before Westridge he hung out at DB with Colobro and Christian.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...