Until its done we must start a petition.

[Weatherman 135]

14 hours ago, huh said:

How exactly would you have stopped Graham?

THIS!

[huh 16]

10 hours ago, UNION'S HAMMER said:

1st I would use the 2014 NCAA game plan instead of Madden 22. Just overall better game plan. 2nd for the love of God realized sooner to get out of the 3 man front. Hey but what do I know I'm just a little nobody fan. Don't have a college degree in art or PE and an expert in coaching. Just saying.

I agree, 2014 NCAA had a better game plan than 22 Madden. 
As for the 3 man front, that seems to be everyones argument as to why you lost the game. Let’s say in the second half when it was 28-13, you jumped to a 50 front to stop the QB run, guess what happens then? They throw to Bradshaw everytime and there isn’t  a human on Unions team who can stop it. Or let’s say a 40 front, you can still double Bradshaw, but then still really nothing you can do to stop the run, because they just manhandled you up front. So 3 man, 4 man, 5 man front it wouldn’t have mattered.

The fact of the matter is that the 1st time you played them you had Honeycutt and Bishop, losing those two killed you. The T wasn’t as effective without that 3rd good back and losing Bishop on the line killed you. And don’t forget you lost your strongest and best defensive lineman to injury in the 1st half of this game.

Union was an 8-4 team that some think under achieved, but realistically whenever they played Graham Semi’s or finals, the season was ending.

GRAHAM WAS THE BETTER TEAM

Don't take a PE or Art degree to figure that one out

[TaterHater 89]

11 minutes ago, huh said:

I agree, 2014 NCAA had a better game plan than 22 Madden. 
As for the 3 man front, that seems to be everyones argument as to why you lost the game. Let’s say in the second half when it was 28-13, you jumped to a 50 front to stop the QB run, guess what happens then? They throw to Bradshaw everytime and there isn’t  a human on Unions team who can stop it. Or let’s say a 40 front, you can still double Bradshaw, but then still really nothing you can do to stop the run, because they just manhandled you up front. So 3 man, 4 man, 5 man front it wouldn’t have mattered.

The fact of the matter is that the 1st time you played them you had Honeycutt and Bishop, losing those two killed you. The T wasn’t as effective without that 3rd good back and losing Bishop on the line killed you. And don’t forget you lost your strongest and best defensive lineman to injury in the 1st half of this game.

Union was an 8-4 team that some think under achieved, but realistically whenever they played Graham Semi’s or finals, the season was ending.

GRAHAM WAS THE BETTER TEAM

Don't take a PE or Art degree to figure that one out

I think most Union fans knew what the outcome would be. The fault lies with the effort that was given on the DC part to at least try an adjustment.

[huh 16]

32 minutes ago, foosballer said:

I think most Union fans knew what the outcome would be. The fault lies with the effort that was given on the DC part to at least try an adjustment.

Ok, I understand that, but do you know there weren’t any adjustments or did you just observe that it looked the same. There are a lot of factors go into a game plan I am sure, like personnel. If they had switched to a 40 or 50 front, but had small guys in because they didn’t have size to do it, would that have been better? If your best players are more suited for a 3-3 or 3-5, is it better to leave them or put them in something they can’t play in just for The sake of saying you adjusted something. 

I am truly not trying to sound like a prick, if I do I apologize, just having a conversation about what I saw on NFHS. I wasn’t there, but I can only imagine what goes into a game plan at these size schools for these big games. And in game adjustments when you are getting beat 48-13. Does 42-13 or 34-13 change anything. 

As a fan, and a follower of Union from a distance, I try not to question what coaches do because we as fans don’t know what goes on at their practice. And to say let’s start a petition to get rid of someone on a chatroom to me is crazy. 

 

 

[FoxTrot 180]

3 hours ago, huh said:

Ok, I understand that, but do you know there weren’t any adjustments or did you just observe that it looked the same. There are a lot of factors go into a game plan I am sure, like personnel. If they had switched to a 40 or 50 front, but had small guys in because they didn’t have size to do it, would that have been better? If your best players are more suited for a 3-3 or 3-5, is it better to leave them or put them in something they can’t play in just for The sake of saying you adjusted something. 

I am truly not trying to sound like a prick, if I do I apologize, just having a conversation about what I saw on NFHS. I wasn’t there, but I can only imagine what goes into a game plan at these size schools for these big games. And in game adjustments when you are getting beat 48-13. Does 42-13 or 34-13 change anything. 

As a fan, and a follower of Union from a distance, I try not to question what coaches do because we as fans don’t know what goes on at their practice. And to say let’s start a petition to get rid of someone on a chatroom to me is crazy. 

 

 

It’s more than crazy…it ludicrous and hilarious for those that say it,

[TaterHater 89]

2 hours ago, huh said:

Ok, I understand that, but do you know there weren’t any adjustments or did you just observe that it looked the same. There are a lot of factors go into a game plan I am sure, like personnel. If they had switched to a 40 or 50 front, but had small guys in because they didn’t have size to do it, would that have been better? If your best players are more suited for a 3-3 or 3-5, is it better to leave them or put them in something they can’t play in just for The sake of saying you adjusted something. 

I am truly not trying to sound like a prick, if I do I apologize, just having a conversation about what I saw on NFHS. I wasn’t there, but I can only imagine what goes into a game plan at these size schools for these big games. And in game adjustments when you are getting beat 48-13. Does 42-13 or 34-13 change anything. 

As a fan, and a follower of Union from a distance, I try not to question what coaches do because we as fans don’t know what goes on at their practice. And to say let’s start a petition to get rid of someone on a chatroom to me is crazy. 

 

 

So yes, formation changes were one issue that you can see. They have ran 4 and 5 man fronts before against running teams, so they do have players capable of doing do. Setting up to defend the pass would be appropriate if the opposing offense is passing the ball but that was not the case. Also on known passing downs to not dial up a blitz of some kind is not very helpful. If you watch film; for the most part MLBs on pass plays are not rushing nor are they covering receivers...they are just setting there 5 yards off the line of scrimmage looking lost. 

There was a point early in the game were Union had a chance to get Graham off the field. It was something like 3rd and 4 near the Graham 40. The defense was basically setup all zone, there was absolutely no pressure on the QB and he had all day to throw; instead he waited till most of the DB's were down field and took off with a run to the sideline and made it across the 50. You could tell after that play the defense lost momentum, and in HS football momentum is BIG. IMO that was when the game changed and it was all down hill from that point on. Had the DC brought pressure, I think they would have been able to contain the QB or at least caused him to make a decision while more defenders were in the vicinity to make a tackle.

IMO the DC is just too conservative with the calls. Setting back in a zone defense and getting hammered trying to prevent the big play vs adjusting against to the 5, 7, to 10 yard plays they were getting killed with. Also, against several teams this year and last they were getting killed by the same play ran continuously. I've said it a bunch of times but Abingdon lined up in the I formation and ran lead 7... 4 and 5 times IN A ROW  on multiple drives and not once did he move someone in place to counter.      

[TaterHater 89]

This was what Travis said:

“Give Graham credit. They outcoached us and were more prepared and I didn’t do a very good job of getting our guys ready to play today,” Union coach Travis Turner said. “This one falls on me. We’ve got to go back to work and get in the weight room.”

 

Give Palmer a HUGE amount of credit..........the man had his team ready to play even during a week were he lost his father!

 

R.I.P Butch Palmer

[T8KNDookeez 100]

It looked like they didn't want to get beat by the QB running so they spied him (waiting in space to see if he runs). They tried mixing it up to counter the offensive set. Sometimes spying with 1 LB and sometimes 2. Good plan but Graham QB still ran and did well. Not the first time Graham seen that and overall a good plan, "Make the QB pass not run to beat us," but execution was lacking. Graham will see the same thing this week too.

[Gridiron60 2,554]

18 minutes ago, foosballer said:

This was what Travis said:

“Give Graham credit. They outcoached us and were more prepared and I didn’t do a very good job of getting our guys ready to play today,” Union coach Travis Turner said. “This one falls on me. We’ve got to go back to work and get in the weight room.”

 

Give Palmer a HUGE amount of credit..........the man had his team ready to play even during a week were he lost his father!

 

R.I.P Butch Palmer

Turner & Palmer, both first class acts. I have great respect for both men as coaches and off the field as well. Condolences to Coach Palmer on the loss of his father. 

[BandanaVTDavis4321 1,717]

28 minutes ago, foosballer said:

This was what Travis said:

“Give Graham credit. They outcoached us and were more prepared and I didn’t do a very good job of getting our guys ready to play today,” Union coach Travis Turner said. “This one falls on me. We’ve got to go back to work and get in the weight room.”

 

 

I'm guessing Union is fine in the weight room.  I'm also guessing many Union fans would have wanted to hear something related to mixing up, modifying a little bit, the offensive scheme.  The weight room applies to Giles in the off season a lot!  Our offensive scheme is a given and one the players know very well, but they need the weight room.   Union in my opinion, is kind of the opposite.  Work needs to be put in by the coaches to help that run oriented conservative offense be a touch more diverse and misdirectional, while still being conservative.  The guy at WVU was masterful at it (Rodriguez).  He would often boast in interviews that WVU's offense had the highest run to pass ratio in the country (which means it's pretty conservative) but boy were they diverse and misdirectional with that conservative offense.  <-----You've still got to have the jimmy's and joe's to do that.  Having guys like Pat White, Slaten, and Austin certainly help, and football is still always centered around the basics.  It all starts with the bigs up front and how well they block.  In my opinion, if you break football down to its basics, it still comes down to blocking and tackling and no matter how you scheme or don't scheme, if you don't block and tackle well, you get beat.  <-----that's kind of stating the obvious, but I think we sometimes forget it.

Agree on Palmer and Turner.  Both are class.  I think Turner is being vastly underrated by SOME Union fans.  He's an incredible coach. 

[goose111874 967]

Not 1 person thought Union was beating Graham what everyone is pointing out is the coaches can't seem to adjust during the game

[Vol Hater 276]

I guess I'm ridiculous and crazy for expecting the defensive coordinator to know something about football or at least make some adjustments during the game multiple teams just lined up and ran it down Unions throat this season and not 1 adjustment. I knew Union wasn't beating Graham. 

[SwvaOG 600]

4 hours ago, GilesDavis4321 said:

I'm guessing Union is fine in the weight room.  I'm also guessing many Union fans would have wanted to hear something related to mixing up, modifying a little bit, the offensive scheme.  The weight room applies to Giles in the off season a lot!  Our offensive scheme is a given and one the players know very well, but they need the weight room.   Union in my opinion, is kind of the opposite.  Work needs to be put in by the coaches to help that run oriented conservative offense be a touch more diverse and misdirectional, while still being conservative.  The guy at WVU was masterful at it (Rodriguez).  He would often boast in interviews that WVU's offense had the highest run to pass ratio in the country (which means it's pretty conservative) but boy were they diverse and misdirectional with that conservative offense.  <-----You've still got to have the jimmy's and joe's to do that.  Having guys like Pat White, Slaten, and Austin certainly help, and football is still always centered around the basics.  It all starts with the bigs up front and how well they block.  In my opinion, if you break football down to its basics, it still comes down to blocking and tackling and no matter how you scheme or don't scheme, if you don't block and tackle well, you get beat.  <-----that's kind of stating the obvious, but I think we sometimes forget it.

Agree on Palmer and Turner.  Both are class.  I think Turner is being vastly underrated by SOME Union fans.  He's an incredible coach. 

This caught my eye too Giles.  I thought the same thing…..you can’t lift this away.  He needs to develop his skill personnel and find ways to consistently get them in space. SWVA teams can’t just line it up and run it down your throats and win state championships anymore.  You have to have a varied offense and stress the defense and not just in a physical way.  Look at what RV did to Central.  They said “Yeah, you’ve got the best run stopping LB core in the M7, but can they cover and make stops out in space”.  They couldn’t and RV moved the ball in chunks from the 2nd quarter on.  Union needs a football evolution….NOT a revolution.  They also need to be careful because I can see talented WRs/ skill positions saying “I don’t want to spend 4 years blocking on the edge, I wanna go where I can catch footballs”.

[BigWinners 1,643]

15 minutes ago, SwvaOG said:

This caught my eye too Giles.  I thought the same thing…..you can’t lift this away.  He needs to develop his skill personnel and find ways to consistently get them in space. SWVA teams can’t just line it up and run it down your throats and win state championships anymore.  You have to have a varied offense and stress the defense and not just in a physical way.  Look at what RV did to Central.  They said “Yeah, you’ve got the best run stopping LB core in the M7, but can they cover and make stops out in space”.  They couldn’t and RV moved the ball in chunks from the 2nd quarter on.  Union needs a football evolution….NOT a revolution.  They also need to be careful because I can see talented WRs/ skill positions saying “I don’t want to spend 4 years blocking on the edge, I wanna go where I can catch footballs”.

It's not like Union hasn't done it in the past is what's kinda crazy. Some of the better Union teams like 2015 weren't afraid to get athletes in space and create matchup issues on the edges. 2017 woulda been same way had the QB not been injured. But the last 3-4 years, it seems like Turner has not believed in either the QB, the OL or the skill guys and has buttoned up the offense quite a bit. Maybe it's been for the best, Lomax is an absolute monster, but running against 11 men boxes isn't easy. 

[S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE 239]

It's as if there is no plan b on either side of the ball at times. I don't think any coach intentionally gets beat down.  It's not like 1990 when teams study the weak links of their opponents. Weakest lineman, lb, db, punter, og, ot, etc.  

I think it's more of the generation of athletes issue. They're exposed to much more diverse attacks than the rest of us old turds ever thought about. I just don't think their football IQ is all that it should be. 

Most coaches feel what they've got on the field is what needs to be out there.  I'm sure there us a lot more to the dynamics of the coach/defensive coordinator relationship than we know.  

End of the day,  still a great program, just gotta do some self reflection from time to time.  Hoping 2D can bring it home again. 

[goose111874 967]

1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

It's not like Union hasn't done it in the past is what's kinda crazy. Some of the better Union teams like 2015 weren't afraid to get athletes in space and create matchup issues on the edges. 2017 woulda been same way had the QB not been injured. But the last 3-4 years, it seems like Turner has not believed in either the QB, the OL or the skill guys and has buttoned up the offense quite a bit. Maybe it's been for the best, Lomax is an absolute monster, but running against 11 men boxes isn't easy. 

Go watch the JV Quarterback he looks like he could be great but rumor is he's not gonna be the QB next season.  I'd be very surprised if if Union doesn't lose him to maybe Central.  It's like they don't care about who's QB because all they're gonna do is run anyways.

[BigWinners 1,643]

52 minutes ago, goose111874 said:

Go watch the JV Quarterback he looks like he could be great but rumor is he's not gonna be the QB next season.  I'd be very surprised if if Union doesn't lose him to maybe Central.  It's like they don't care about who's QB because all they're gonna do is run anyways.

Is that the kid with the last name starting with an S? Everyone does rave about his potential and ability as a passer, but the backup this year possesses some intriguing qualities if Union is intent on running the ball 75% of the time. There are ways to be unpredictable with a run heavy offense, especially if the QB is gonna run. I'm still a firm believer in throwing the ball, I truly believe that the maximum potential for an offense lies in the ability to dictate the flow of the game and attack a defense from all stress points. But if Turner is adamant about running the ball at such a high rate, incorporating the QB and having him run as well is at least a more varied way of attack. 

Especially once Honeycutt went down, I thought the Union offense was truly at its most dangerous and explosive out of the gun with a single back and a big reason was the ability of Bunch to keep the ball on a read and run. In the regular season Graham has a ton of success because it's tougher to account for the QB in the run game when the field is spread. Force pressure on the defense, not the other way aroiund, but then again I'm purely a bystander who has opinions. I just hate seeing a QB only throwing on 3rd and 12, it's unfair to the kid and almost impossib le to succeed consistently.

[goose111874 967]

Yes that's the kid I was referring too.  I think the backup this season would be good for certain packages but I think it'll be a huge mistake to not start the JV kid he has the potential to be great.  No way he stays at Union and only gets to start his senior season

[TaterHater 89]

56 minutes ago, goose111874 said:

Yes that's the kid I was referring too.  I think the backup this season would be good for certain packages but I think it'll be a huge mistake to not start the JV kid he has the potential to be great.  No way he stays at Union and only gets to start his senior season

I thought in Wise County your address dictates what school you go to? 

[swva_havok_fan 1,261]

Union has two assistant coaches from Haysi.... Dickenson County is totally sabotaging the Union program from within.  Only reasoning as to why Union got spanked by Graham.  It can't be the fact that Graham is actually, I don't know... maybe good or something?

[Union_Fan 2,154]

15 hours ago, foosballer said:

I thought in Wise County your address dictates what school you go to? 

You can go to any school you want in Wise Co. as long as you have transportation. But if you switch schools after you start HS, you have to physically move, if you don't already live there, or sit out a semester.

[BigWinners 1,643]

21 hours ago, goose111874 said:

Yes that's the kid I was referring too.  I think the backup this season would be good for certain packages but I think it'll be a huge mistake to not start the JV kid he has the potential to be great.  No way he stays at Union and only gets to start his senior season

I haven't saw much of the JV kid but a lot of people really, really think he's got potential. I think with Anderson's athletic ability you could get him involved in many different positions and let the other kid play QB if he is really that talent. It would be growing pains as with any young QB, but look no further than RV to see that a freshman QB can succeed.