2D/1D/1C Seeding Projections/Scenarios

[Real Sasquatch]

2 hours ago, Gridiron60 said:

No, any team that ends up 2-8 shouldn’t be in the playoffs but unfortunately, the VHSL has a flawed system in place that allows this to happen. If Region D had several more schools, then maybe not but unfortunately with only 11 teams & 8 spots, not much can be done about it.  Kids that wouldn’t get to play one more game get to have that chance. It just drags out the season into December which I dislike. If they would eliminate the bye week & start a week earlier in August that would eliminate December playoffs though. That makes too much sense. 

I think they should limit the playoffs to top 6 or even top 4.  But teams who don't make the playoffs should get the chance to play a "Plus One" game to end their season against an opponent with a similar record and it would be up to the A.D.'s to contact each other to set something up for that final week.  Teams could get a chance to play a team they don't normally play and the VHSL could still get a cut of those plus one's and everybody would be happy.  Teams ready to pack it up, could pack it up.

[CPF]

Who cares if teams that have undeserving records make the playoffs. It's about the kids not the adults. I'd rather have too many than someone deserving not get in. In 96 Graham finished 7-3 with losses to Bluefield Grundy, and Gate City(combined 29-1).  A 9-0 Magna Vista team lost to an ordinary Bassett team on the final week of the season getting Bassett in and leaving Graham at home. Graham wouldve blasted both Bassett and Magna Vista in the playoffs. That sucked way worse than watching an extra round of playoffs.

[Union_Fan]

41 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said:

Someone should ask the kids from Cumberland High School how they felt about "suiting up more time." Cumberland finished 0-10 in 2017 and was awarded a playoff berth against Lunenburg Central, a team that curb-stomped them in the regular season.  The playoff game went no better.  And guess what happened in 2018? Cumberland (0-10) was awarded a playoff berth yet again against, you guessed it, Lunenburg Central. And, yes, another woodshed beating that year. 

So... to those of you who support eight playoff teams per region, is this an acceptable consequence?

 

They didn't forfeit the playoff game due to lack of players, so the kids must have wanted to play what they already knew was going to be a beat down.

The games are for the student athletes not us bleacher bums, so I feel that my thoughts and opinions are irrelevant.

As they would say in the legal realm, I lack standing to bring about any case for or against. Haha 

[Liam McPoyle]

You're assuming because they played, that they wanted to play. Marion has been the recipient of far too many undeserving playoff berths. Admittedly, there were a few kids who never wanted to play their last game. But I can tell you by talking to those kids personally, many knew their team didn't deserve a berth, and frankly, were ready for the season to end. Most played basketball, wrestled, swam, or ran indoor and were more than ready to start a new season. The season-ending sacrificial slaughter to the #1 seed was not appealing. 

[Duke2015]

18 minutes ago, CPF said:

Who cares if teams that have undeserving records make the playoffs. It's about the kids not the adults. I'd rather have too many than someone deserving not get in. In 96 Graham finished 7-3 with losses to Bluefield Grundy, and Gate City(combined 29-1).  A 9-0 Magna Vista team lost to an ordinary Bassett team on the final week of the season getting Bassett in and leaving Graham at home. Graham wouldve blasted both Bassett and Magna Vista in the playoffs. That sucked way worse than watching an extra round of playoffs.

I agree too many is better than a 8-2 team missing out.  I remember in the 90s D2 had some years where honaker haysi Clintwood or Powell valley would miss the playoffs and someone like Thomas walker would go 10-0 or 9-1 playing cupcakes and get in only to lose by 50 in round 1

[Duke2015]

4 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said:

You're assuming because they played, that they wanted to play. Marion has been the recipient of far too many undeserving playoff berths. Admittedly, there were a few kids who never wanted to play their last game. But I can tell you by talking to those kids personally, many knew their team didn't deserve a berth, and frankly, were ready for the season to end. Most played basketball, wrestled, swam, or ran indoor and were more than ready to start a new season. The season-ending sacrificial slaughter to the #1 seed was not appealing. 

To be fair this season the #4 team will probably be crushed by Graham doesn’t mean we should drop to 2 teams.  I say keep it at 8 and give them the option to forfeit 

[EH31]

What seed was 5-5 Blacksburg when they won state?

[Liam McPoyle]

39 minutes ago, EH31 said:

What seed was 5-5 Blacksburg when they won state?

IINM, instead of 4 groups (regions) of 8 teams each, all the West teams were combined into a single 16 team bracket. Blacksburg was #10 of 16.

[BandanaVTDavis4321]

Error On the Safe Side.  We have 8 teams making the playoffs which is far to many in my opinion, but one positive thing about it when trying to find one is.......we error on the safe side.  This means, we are allowing some to make the playoffs that probably shouldn't be in the playoffs, but we allow that to happen in order to prevent from realizing or capturing a Blacksburg or Appalachia (5-5's) that goes on to win a state title, or some 6-4 teams that have done it as well.  It's kind of like our court system, we make the standard for criminal cases beyond a reasonable doubt and we accept and allow that some who are guilty will go free, but we do try to minimize a conviction of the innocent.

I favor 5 or 6 teams max, not 8, but here's the thing.  We put to much emotion in the word "PLAYOFFS."  It's not some weekend long conference or 2 week event for most of the teams.  It's a 2.5 hour event and it's over.  They play one extra game, 4 quarters, on the road, and the season usually ends there.  Not a big deal if we take the emotion out of the word playoffs and don't lend the word so much power.  For example with Giles....I could call it "playoffs," or I could use the statement, "we play one extra game to get ready for next season."  Clearly, one of those 2 has a lot less "emotion bite."

[BandanaVTDavis4321]

I think most know this, but maybe not.  The VHSL doesn't determine how many teams make the playoffs.  The regions do that themselves.  For example, in Virginia's Class 1, Region B (Riverheads and Central Lunenburg's region), they only take 6 teams for the playoffs.  The 1 and 2 seeds get a bye, so even in 2022, not every region in every class in Virginia has 8 teams in the playoffs, and if Region D, Class 1 and/or Class 2 wanted to only take 4 or 5 or 6, it's my understanding that they can do this and don't need the VHSL's approval.  So....in summary, 8 teams making the playoffs is not on the VHSL.  They aren't to blame if we don't like that format or that many teams getting in.  The Regions are responsible here and can change it instantly if they want to.  The region's can Not ADD to the 8 teams because the timeline is set for the state semi's by the VHSL, but they can certainly subtract from the 8 if they want to regarding how many get in.

[stu_bean]

Can't remember what year it was, several back though, a KY team was 0-10 making the playoffs going into the first round against a 10-0 team.  They won it.  Now they got crushed the following week but anything can happen and that's why I don't mind it at all.

[Deleted Account]

15 hours ago, Duke2015 said:

Seen a few years back where a 0-10 team made playoffs I think in Tn if I’m not mistaken 

It did in VA under the old A-AAA, D1-D6 system.

[Deleted Account]

12 hours ago, Duke2015 said:

I agree too many is better than a 8-2 team missing out.  I remember in the 90s D2 had some years where honaker haysi Clintwood or Powell valley would miss the playoffs and someone like Thomas walker would go 10-0 or 9-1 playing cupcakes and get in only to lose by 50 in round 1

D2 was horrifically balanced in the early 2000s.  You only had 4 playoff spots in a format where 3 district champions automatically earned playoff berths.  The one "wild card" team was always going to be whichever team of Powell Valley / Gate City had 1 district loss due to the strength of the old Lonesome Pine District.  Those were the days when you could pencil in those two teams at 9-1 or 10-0 without any thought.  The problem was the Cumberland District.  Rye Cove (then D2) would win that pitiful district with overall records like 5-5.  That left some team as the odd man out in the old Black Diamond District.  In 2003, Honaker lost to Haysi 6-0.  Haysi went 9-1, with their only loss to D1 Clintwood, and won the BDD.  Honaker went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.  In 2004, Haysi lost to Honaker 33-13.  Haysi allowed just 42 points to the other 9 teams on its schedule.  Honaker went 8-2 with no district losses, and won the BDD.  Haysi went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.

 

For folks wondering why district champs no longer get automatic playoff berths, this is why!

[SXSW]

Last Year in the TSSAA Playoffs a total of 34 Division 1 school (public schools) and 7 Division 2 ( private schools) made the playoffs with losing records. It happens every year and will continue to happen till the greed stops and common sense takes over (which means it will be here forever) I am totally old school on the playoff only the top 2 from each district should get in and cross bracket the state after the first round. 4 rounds of playoffs and you are done by Thanksgiving.

[SamJackson]

I believe it is hideous to think a 2-8 team in the playoffs.  I say take the top three teams from each district and cross bracket.  Another option, I believe you could dissolve the districts in football and just play a 9 game regional schedule.  Each team would have 1 game to pick-up like the Graham/Beaver game.  Districts in football really do not matter at this point and time.

[Duke2015]

49 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

D2 was horrifically balanced in the early 2000s.  You only had 4 playoff spots in a format where 3 district champions automatically earned playoff berths.  The one "wild card" team was always going to be whichever team of Powell Valley / Gate City had 1 district loss due to the strength of the old Lonesome Pine District.  Those were the days when you could pencil in those two teams at 9-1 or 10-0 without any thought.  The problem was the Cumberland District.  Rye Cove (then D2) would win that pitiful district with overall records like 5-5.  That left some team as the odd man out in the old Black Diamond District.  In 2003, Honaker lost to Haysi 6-0.  Haysi went 9-1, with their only loss to D1 Clintwood, and won the BDD.  Honaker went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.  In 2004, Haysi lost to Honaker 33-13.  Haysi allowed just 42 points to the other 9 teams on its schedule.  Honaker went 8-2 with no district losses, and won the BDD.  Haysi went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.

 

For folks wondering why district champs no longer get automatic playoff berths, this is why!

Yeah I’ll take the way it is now over that mess 

[Duke2015]

22 minutes ago, SamJackson said:

I believe it is hideous to think a 2-8 team in the playoffs.  I say take the top three teams from each district and cross bracket.  Another option, I believe you could dissolve the districts in football and just play a 9 game regional schedule.  Each team would have 1 game to pick-up like the Graham/Beaver game.  Districts in football really do not matter at this point and time.

Or better yet get rid of district play in football and just go with region since district champs is meaningless 

[BandanaVTDavis4321]

1 minute ago, Duke2015 said:

Or better yet get rid of district play in football and just go with region since district champs is meaningless 

Districts have pretty much become defunct in Virginia for playoff purposes.  They remain in place for scheduling purposes/ease of scheduling and consistency for other sports and scheduling, hoops, softball, baseball, etc.

[1inStripes]

57 minutes ago, UVAObserver said:

D2 was horrifically balanced in the early 2000s.  You only had 4 playoff spots in a format where 3 district champions automatically earned playoff berths.  The one "wild card" team was always going to be whichever team of Powell Valley / Gate City had 1 district loss due to the strength of the old Lonesome Pine District.  Those were the days when you could pencil in those two teams at 9-1 or 10-0 without any thought.  The problem was the Cumberland District.  Rye Cove (then D2) would win that pitiful district with overall records like 5-5.  That left some team as the odd man out in the old Black Diamond District.  In 2003, Honaker lost to Haysi 6-0.  Haysi went 9-1, with their only loss to D1 Clintwood, and won the BDD.  Honaker went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.  In 2004, Haysi lost to Honaker 33-13.  Haysi allowed just 42 points to the other 9 teams on its schedule.  Honaker went 8-2 with no district losses, and won the BDD.  Haysi went 9-1 and missed the playoffs.

 

For folks wondering why district champs no longer get automatic playoff berths, this is why!

RC was D2 for 2 years due to Castlewoods numbers went from the biggest school in the district to the 3rd biggest mysteriously. RC had an enrollment of like 192.  The 05 team I think it was got royally screwed by this setup.  They had a chance to win the state in D1 but drew PV in the opening round of D2.  Lost 35-6 after being down 7-6 with a minute to go in the 3rd quarter.

[PV8]

38 minutes ago, 1inStripes said:

RC was D2 for 2 years due to Castlewoods numbers went from the biggest school in the district to the 3rd biggest mysteriously. RC had an enrollment of like 192.  The 05 team I think it was got royally screwed by this setup.  They had a chance to win the state in D1 but drew PV in the opening round of D2.  Lost 35-6 after being down 7-6 with a minute to go in the 3rd quarter.

That was in 04 and PV lost to Manassas Park in the Div 2 finals. Franklin won the Div 1 title and was the best team in Harrisonburg that day including, PV and Manassas Park. No chance RC beats Franklin that day.

[Real Sasquatch]

Split the difference - allow 6 teams to make it, top 2 seeds get a bye week.  3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 would be more competitive games, theoretically.

Do a Plus - One for everybody else, if that's what they desire.  

[Gridiron60]

14 minutes ago, Real Sasquatch said:

Split the difference - allow 6 teams to make it, top 2 seeds get a bye week.  3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 would be more competitive games, theoretically.

Do a Plus - One for everybody else, if that's what they desire.  

Best solution to date! Plus one would be more meaningful and competitive than sacrificial slaughter. 

[Hokiebird7]

11 minutes ago, Gridiron60 said:

Best solution to date! Plus one would be more meaningful and competitive than sacrificial slaughter. 

Agree I like this idea too

[redtiger]

2 hours ago, 1inStripes said:

RC was D2 for 2 years due to Castlewoods numbers went from the biggest school in the district to the 3rd biggest mysteriously. RC had an enrollment of like 192.  The 05 team I think it was got royally screwed by this setup.  They had a chance to win the state in D1 but drew PV in the opening round of D2.  Lost 35-6 after being down 7-6 with a minute to go in the 3rd quarter.

That was 04, in 05 a pretty good Eagles team came to Haysi and took a whooping. They would have fared well in D1

[BigWinners]

If you cut playoff teams, gotta do the plus-1 games. Those were great.