Gridiron60 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 34 minutes ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said: Watched Graham vs PC. Difference in Graham last night from what I haven't seen in YEARS is offensive coaching/route design. It was Noticeably changed/different. Amazing how a struggling QB passing the ball can all of a sudden look different with just a little offensive coaching improvement. The Improvement for Graham last night offensively wasn't the QB in my opinion (who did fine) but it was the offensive coaching and specifically, pass route design. In the past if you look at the Graham QB and throwing deep and into coverage, the kid had zero or very few other options to throw too. 3 out of 4 routes at minimum were deep routes or way down field. They gave the kid some short routes and what happened? Speed. Ball to WR quickly and sure, he's tackled for a 6 yd gain 4 out of 5 times, but 1 of those one in five goes to the house as athleticism takes over. If.....IF Grahams offensive coaching keeps that pass route design in place and doesnt revert, and sticks with short and intermediate balls, they will not be beaten this year. Graham’s offensive play calling was on the money tonight & Roberts executed well. Graham offensive coaching staff has to be very pleased with tonight’s performance compared to last week. There’s stilll work to do but offense is headed in the right direction. I hope penalties get cleaned up as well. Defense just needs to keep the pedal to the metal. That defensive front is just nasty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 1 hour ago, BandanaVTDavis4321 said: Watched Graham vs PC. Difference in Graham last night from what I haven't seen in YEARS is offensive coaching/route design. It was Noticeably changed/different. Amazing how a struggling QB passing the ball can all of a sudden look different with just a little offensive coaching improvement. The Improvement for Graham last night offensively wasn't the QB in my opinion (who did fine) but it was the offensive coaching and specifically, pass route design. In the past if you look at the Graham QB and throwing deep and into coverage, the kid had zero or very few other options to throw too. 3 out of 4 routes at minimum were deep routes or way down field. They gave the kid some short routes and what happened? Speed. Ball to WR quickly and sure, he's tackled for a 6 yd gain 4 out of 5 times, but 1 of those one in five goes to the house as athleticism takes over. If.....IF Grahams offensive coaching keeps that pass route design in place and doesnt revert, and sticks with short and intermediate balls, they will not be beaten this year. I agree.. As a Graham fan this is what we,ve been waiting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbgfan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Tonight the Loris Lions play away at Marlboro County High School. This game will be broadcast on NFHS. Air time is 7:30. Loris is 7-1 and ranked 3rd in 3A. Marlboro HS is also 7-1 and ranked 5th in 3A. The Lions with a win tonight clinch their 1st regional title (Region 5) and the #1 seed in the postseason since 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado99 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 To question myself and open up to interpretation the talent vs coaching/culture argument, but here goes…What is Graham’s culture besides winning? I ask this because while they are winning, they have a reputation for being notoriously penalized. Is that due to a lack of discipline? Is it because of coaching to play right up to the edge? I didn’t watch the Lebanon game, only listened, but one poster commented to the effect of the refs got tired of throwing flags, and they got away with one on the interception. Just curious, because talent as coming up continually, covers a lot of deficiencies. The talent can sure make the coaching look much better. What do you all think, both G-men supporters seeing firsthand and opponents who have seen them in person? For context, I have been an outspoken supporter of how valuable Dennis Palmer is as an assistant based on experience. On the flip side, I think about anyone could have a winning record with that much talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union_Fan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 When I look at Graham, I see three things. Speed, strength and defense. There's tons of talent behind that speed. There's a great coach behind that defense. There's a great process behind the strength. There's nothing special about the offense. Since 2018, Graham has used superior talent to score points. I think that's why they've struggled to score points this year. They still have talent but don't have an Allen, Lester, Bradshaw, Clements, etc... like previous years. I think the defensive and unsportsmanlike penalties are coming from kids that are a little cocky and know how talented they are. You want to see this, but the line is a little blurry. Do you want an aggressive kid that makes plays with an occasional penalty or no penalties and kids that are afraid to go that extra mile? With the false starts and holds, I think this goes back to the offense being nothing special, and I'm talking about scheme and strategy here. Whoever is behind the offense, and not just this year, because this has been a problem for years in the games I've observed, doesn't focus on detail. It's the thought that our kids are better than yours, so we're just going to line up and beat you. We don't have to out scheme or strategize. Due to this, in my opinion, they don't focus on the details that would lower the number of false starts and holds. For the last several years, Graham folks have repeatedly talked about the need to clean up these penalties, but the level of talent was greater than the mistakes, so they survived and advanced. If Graham ever finds itself on equal footing, talent wise, with everyone else, the coaches will be forced to focus on details or they won't be able to overcome the mistakes. Mountain Football, tornado99, Gridiron60 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 59 minutes ago, tornado99 said: To question myself and open up to interpretation the talent vs coaching/culture argument, but here goes…What is Graham’s culture besides winning? I ask this because while they are winning, they have a reputation for being notoriously penalized. Is that due to a lack of discipline? Is it because of coaching to play right up to the edge? I didn’t watch the Lebanon game, only listened, but one poster commented to the effect of the refs got tired of throwing flags, and they got away with one on the interception. Just curious, because talent as coming up continually, covers a lot of deficiencies. The talent can sure make the coaching look much better. What do you all think, both G-men supporters seeing firsthand and opponents who have seen them in person? For context, I have been an outspoken supporter of how valuable Dennis Palmer is as an assistant based on experience. On the flip side, I think about anyone could have a winning record with that much talent. Myself I believe it’s a combination of things. First off they definitely play on the edge and that adds to the psychological advantage. And if you don’t think there’s a psychological edge, ask any team that has Graham upcoming. The first thing they say is oh crap. Secondly they play so hard I believe it leads to some of these. This is a very, very aggressive team. And lastly, they have the confidence and touch of arrogance that they know they will overcome this. Nice guys don’t finish first. tornado99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 4 minutes ago, Union_Fan said: When I look at Graham, I see three things. Speed, strength and defense. There's tons of talent behind that speed. There's a great coach behind that defense. There's a great process behind the strength. There's nothing special about the offense. Since 2018, Graham has used superior talent to score points. I think that's why they've struggled to score points this year. They still have talent but don't have an Allen, Lester, Bradshaw, Clements, etc... like previous years. I think the defensive and unsportsmanlike penalties are coming from kids that are a little cocky and know how talented they are. You want to see this, but the line is a little blurry. Do you want an aggressive kid that makes plays with an occasional penalty or no penalties and kids that are afraid to go that extra mile? With the false starts and holds, I think this goes back to the offense being nothing special, and I'm talking about scheme and strategy here. Whoever is behind the offense, and not just this year, because this has been a problem for years in the games I've observed, doesn't focus on detail. It's the thought that our kids are better than yours, so we're just going to line up and beat you. We don't have to out scheme or strategize. Due to this, in my opinion, they don't focus on the details that would lower the number of false starts and holds. For the last several years, Graham folks have repeatedly talked about the need to clean up these penalties, but the level of talent was greater than the mistakes, so they survived and advanced. If Graham ever finds itself on equal footing, talent wise, with everyone else, the coaches will be forced to focus on details or they won't be able to overcome the mistakes. On the money!! Union_Fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado99 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 I agree with the effort penalties. Now, as a coaching staff, do you just let the others go (unsportsmanlike conduct, late hit, etc.) and say it’s the nature of the beast? To rephrase, can or should you fix that? I realize that I am thinking on the extreme side, but I’m thinking about the lines of punishment versus ignoring. For example, player A commits penalties, gets flagged, move on because it doesn’t hurt you against a less talented team. Apply the same scenario and punish the player accordingly to teach a lesson to prevent reoccurrence of action against a more talented team. To shorten it, do or can you fix the unnecessary ones (not the incidental from effort). What if it’s your best player? I’m limiting it from a coaching perspective because I know the most talented get away with more everywhere. An example, but one enforced by the officials and rule book that comes to mind was when Richlands faced Stuarts Draft in 2016 when a Richlands player was ejected and not available to play due to unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. That obviously had a huge impact on the state finals, not saying Richlands wins. Totally, unnecessary penalties with an enormous impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union_Fan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 31 minutes ago, tornado99 said: I agree with the effort penalties. Now, as a coaching staff, do you just let the others go (unsportsmanlike conduct, late hit, etc.) and say it’s the nature of the beast? To rephrase, can or should you fix that? I realize that I am thinking on the extreme side, but I’m thinking about the lines of punishment versus ignoring. For example, player A commits penalties, gets flagged, move on because it doesn’t hurt you against a less talented team. Apply the same scenario and punish the player accordingly to teach a lesson to prevent reoccurrence of action against a more talented team. To shorten it, do or can you fix the unnecessary ones (not the incidental from effort). What if it’s your best player? I’m limiting it from a coaching perspective because I know the most talented get away with more everywhere. An example, but one enforced by the officials and rule book that comes to mind was when Richlands faced Stuarts Draft in 2016 when a Richlands player was ejected and not available to play due to unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. That obviously had a huge impact on the state finals, not saying Richlands wins. Totally, unnecessary penalties with an enormous impact. Effort vs bad judgement? Effort is hitting a QB 1/2 second after the ball is released. Bad judgement is hitting the QB 3 seconds after the ball is released. The difference between a right on the sideline hit vs 2 yards out of bounds. Jawing, taunting, fighting, etc... 100% bad judgement. Anything related to bad judgement should be punished. Effort penalties can be corrected with advice and coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbgfan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 5 hours ago, tbgfan said: Tonight the Loris Lions play away at Marlboro County High School. This game will be broadcast on NFHS. Air time is 7:30. Loris is 7-1 and ranked 3rd in 3A. Marlboro HS is also 7-1 and ranked 5th in 3A. The Lions with a win tonight clinch their 1st regional title (Region 5) and the #1 seed in the postseason since 2000. Lions News · Oct 25Tonight’s Varsity Football Game vs. Marlboro County Canceled Tonight’s varsity football game is cancelled due to a forfeiture by Marlboro County High School. Go Lions! (I heard FROM reliable source Marlboro County said their lights weren't working.) SO THE LIONS ARE REGIONAL CHAMPS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Football Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 I think the way you play on Friday nights has a whole lot to do with the way you practice during the week. Graham practices with energy and lots of motivation. As far as the penalties are concerned, it's not that they are given a free pass. The team gets the opportunity to run for each one they get. Union, Graham, and RV all three seem to get their fair share on the personal fouls and unsportsmanlike penalties. I'm not sure what the breakdown is obviously but I don't think Graham is alone. What I've noticed with Graham probably more this year is what appears to be kids arguing with the staff from the field. I couldn't handle that. As a parent if I seen my son standing on a field with the palms of his hands facing the sideline in what appears to be a temp tantrum or offering an "excuse" to the coach. That would tell me I have work to do as a parent. Gridiron60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthGreeneHuskies88 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Just now, Union_Fan said: Effort vs bad judgement? Effort is hitting a QB 1/2 second after the ball is released. Bad judgement is hitting the QB 3 seconds after the ball is released. The difference between a right on the sideline hit vs 2 yards out of bounds. Jawing, taunting, fighting, etc... 100% bad judgement. Anything related to bad judgement should be punished. Effort penalties can be corrected with advice and coaching. Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and other penalties from blatant misconduct should certainly be punished. With effort penalties, those can be coached. Like false starts, jumping offsides, and brain fart holds and PIs, and unintentionally grabbing a facemask. If the same player keeps committing effort penalties multiple times in one game then there needs to be discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union_Fan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 9 minutes ago, Mountain Football said: I think the way you play on Friday nights has a whole lot to do with the way you practice during the week. Graham practices with energy and lots of motivation. As far as the penalties are concerned, it's not that they are given a free pass. The team gets the opportunity to run for each one they get. Union, Graham, and RV all three seem to get their fair share on the personal fouls and unsportsmanlike penalties. I'm not sure what the breakdown is obviously but I don't think Graham is alone. What I've noticed with Graham probably more this year is what appears to be kids arguing with the staff from the field. I couldn't handle that. As a parent if I seen my son standing on a field with the palms of his hands facing the sideline in what appears to be a temp tantrum or offering an "excuse" to the coach. That would tell me I have work to do as a parent. Graham is definitely not alone. Some of my observations about them were inspired from watching Union for 14 years. With the exception of a couple years, the Bears have had at least one kid that consistently gets unsportsmanlike penalties. You want your kids to play with some fire, but they have to know how to control it. I think Union needs to play with just a little more of a chip on their shoulders. Graham32, BigWinners and Mountain Football 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Marlboro County School District officials told WMBF-TV that “electrical issues” are to blame, thus making Loris the Region V-3A champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridiron60 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 41 minutes ago, Mountain Football said: I think the way you play on Friday nights has a whole lot to do with the way you practice during the week. Graham practices with energy and lots of motivation. As far as the penalties are concerned, it's not that they are given a free pass. The team gets the opportunity to run for each one they get. Union, Graham, and RV all three seem to get their fair share on the personal fouls and unsportsmanlike penalties. I'm not sure what the breakdown is obviously but I don't think Graham is alone. What I've noticed with Graham probably more this year is what appears to be kids arguing with the staff from the field. I couldn't handle that. As a parent if I seen my son standing on a field with the palms of his hands facing the sideline in what appears to be a temp tantrum or offering an "excuse" to the coach. That would tell me I have work to do as a parent. I’ve noticed a couple mouthy ones on the field. Their butts need to come out immediately. If they can’t control their emotions & mouth, take them out. jeffro and Mountain Football 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado99 Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Thanks for your perspectives. You Union fans really drilled down to the point that I was talking about with the bad judgment penalties. I guess I failed to correlate the usually the one’s doing the jawing, trash talking, dirty play, etc. usually do so when they have the upper hand. Sometimes it is out of frustration. Mountain Football 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilesBandanaMan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 59 minutes ago, VHSLhelper said: Marlboro County School District officials told WMBF-TV that “electrical issues” are to blame, thus making Loris the Region V-3A champs. Just rolled into Bennettsville 20 minutes ago. Had no clue it was cancelled. Now racing back to Myrtle Beach to watch the Bandana Bunch on the Big Screen through NFHS. Go Lions. Huge win for Loris. Take the forfeit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 1 hour ago, BearsFan88 said: Unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and other penalties from blatant misconduct should certainly be punished. With effort penalties, those can be coached. Like false starts, jumping offsides, and brain fart holds and PIs, and unintentionally grabbing a facemask. If the same player keeps committing effort penalties multiple times in one game then there needs to be discipline. Completely agree with this statement. Hard to call off the dogs but blatant or intentional should be dealt with. Really haven't seen this with Graham but man the penalties are really racking up. Fine line between call the dogs off and just letting them play. Palmer has been letting them play but trust me the assistants are all up in their business when they come off the field after a stupid penalty. Gridiron60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Galax only brought 24-ish to the Ernie... among those missing is their QB ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Sasquatch Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 5 minutes ago, VHSLhelper said: Galax only brought 24-ish to the Ernie... among those missing is their QB ! Yeah, they are low on numbers. I only counted about 30 early in the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swva_havok_fan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Ridgeview 7, Abingdon 0 with 7:06 left in the first. 6 yard TD run by Deel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swva_havok_fan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Ridgeview 7, Abingdon 7 with 5:15 left in the first. Barr with a 2 yard TD run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbgfan Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 1Q 7:24 Honaker Tigers 8 -0 over PH Rebels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW_VA_boy Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 Narrows 7 East Mont 0 10:04 1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper Posted October 25 Report Share Posted October 25 TJ Lawson's 22 yard run gives the Blues their 1st lead of the season, 7-0. Galax then fumbles away the kickoff. Unchained and tbgfan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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