Mountain Seven Title Bout

[S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE]

Sounds like Union fans should be ut fans bahaha. Travis has work to do, but still pretty consistent near the top but I can agree with the frustration.  In the end, it could always be worse. I think it just resonates more when a program like Graham you compete with and beat 1/2 the time is winning/sniffing a state title and you're not.  Gotta make up ground somewhere.  I don't think it's all on the sidelines either.  Got a lot of kids on the field that haven't seen the  weight room/ track anywhere near enough to suit team needs and it shows.  Last night a senior (6'1 165lbs) pulled and a freshman (6'2 205lbs) put in his spot for a few plays. Unbelievable difference looking at them side by side where one pounded the weight pile and one didn't. If you're paying freshman on Friday,  you're not in good shape for whatever reasons the last few seasons.  15-20 per class is hard to keep but it has been done.  Foundation has to be solid. What the kids get in little league and middle school builds a lot towards the future.  Seems most kids could use some old school mentality. Running a spread vs full house isn't adapting to modern football, it's admitting you don't have it in you too be old school tough anymore imo.

[tornado99]

Thanks for your opinions and analysis. I was seeking an unbiased analysis, and I believe you have given me some admittedly. I only have one retort, which is totally my opinion, and others are welcome to retort. I believe Graham has a good staff based on experience, and the ability to attract talented kids to their program. I disagree that there are any X’s and O’s brilliance that sets them apart from some of the other places, and Union is arguable. They’ve gotten more to work with, which allows them to occasionally do more. Maybe they are unique to their community, but I don’t see any vast superiority compared to some places with less talent.

Edited November 2, 2024 by tornado99
Correction

[tornado99]

In other words, even if solid, I don’t think Graham’s staff does much better than many staffs if anywhere else.

[Vol Hater]

1 hour ago, S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE said:

Sounds like Union fans should be ut fans bahaha. Travis has work to do, but still pretty consistent near the top but I can agree with the frustration.  In the end, it could always be worse. I think it just resonates more when a program like Graham you compete with and beat 1/2 the time is winning/sniffing a state title and you're not.  Gotta make up ground somewhere.  I don't think it's all on the sidelines either.  Got a lot of kids on the field that haven't seen the  weight room/ track anywhere near enough to suit team needs and it shows.  Last night a senior (6'1 165lbs) pulled and a freshman (6'2 205lbs) put in his spot for a few plays. Unbelievable difference looking at them side by side where one pounded the weight pile and one didn't. If you're paying freshman on Friday,  you're not in good shape for whatever reasons the last few seasons.  15-20 per class is hard to keep but it has been done.  Foundation has to be solid. What the kids get in little league and middle school builds a lot towards the future.  Seems most kids could use some old school mentality. Running a spread vs full house isn't adapting to modern football, it's admitting you don't have it in you too be old school tough anymore imo.

My point is Edward's refuses and I mean absolutely refuses to make adjustments. Same defensive scheme all night until 6 mins left in game and he finally went to a 6 man front. That dude shouldn't be allowed to coach the Frisbee golf team at Union. And anybody that had played the new NCAA college football game can see where Travis's playbook is coming from this year. Heck at this point let Bostic take over play calling and see what happens can't be any worse then the same 6 plays travis runs.

[jeffro]

6 minutes ago, Vol Hater said:

My point is Edward's refuses and I mean absolutely refuses to make adjustments. Same defensive scheme all night until 6 mins left in game and he finally went to a 6 man front. That dude shouldn't be allowed to coach the Frisbee golf team at Union. And anybody that had played the new NCAA college football game can see where Travis's playbook is coming from this year. Heck at this point let Bostic take over play calling and see what happens can't be any worse then the same 6 plays travis runs.

Wait. Union has a frisbee team?  Damn I’m old!

[Union_Fan]

1 hour ago, tornado99 said:

In other words, even if solid, I don’t think Graham’s staff does much better than many staffs if anywhere else.

That is only debatable at this point due to the talent levels. Hard to fully judge until the talent is equal with other teams.

One thing that may sway the argument to Graham's staff being better...

After the Graham/Union game, most posters made comments about how equal the teams were. If that's true, look at the play calling. Graham running the ball with Palmer, then putting a WR in the wildcat, back to a traditional set with the QB getting the ball to their athletes.

Now, what did Union do? Chandler left, Chandler right, Chandler up the middle.

Graham pulled everything out of the playbook until they found something that worked according to the situation.

Union kept beating their head against the wall. Run, run, throw on 3rd and long, take a sack. Rinse and repeat.

[tornado99]

6 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

That is only debatable at this point due to the talent levels. Hard to fully judge until the talent is equal with other teams.

One thing that may sway the argument to Graham's staff being better...

After the Graham/Union game, most posters made comments about how equal the teams were. If that's true, look at the play calling. Graham running the ball with Palmer, then putting a WR in the wildcat, back to a traditional set with the QB getting the ball to their athletes.

Now, what did Union do? Chandler left, Chandler right, Chandler up the middle.

Graham pulled everything out of the playbook until they found something that worked according to the situation.

Union kept beating their head against the wall. Run, run, throw on 3rd and long, take a sack. Rinse and repeat.

I hear you and definitely agree they are as equal as ever this season. I think the 7-6 score definitely reflects that how equal they are in talent.

In the Lebanon game, I don’t understand why they didn’t just stick with what you said instead keeping it closer than they need be. It feels like they play with their food and try to experiment instead of simply doing what works. They have greater luxury to make mistakes.

[S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE]

End of the day, kids gotta perform but they have to be put into a position to achieve desired results. 

[tornado99]

Forgive me for this hypothetical, but do you prefer a great situational coach who can potentially get you a title, but also potentially set your program back by doing whatever it takes to win?

I’m not insinuating that in reality you have to choose, but just thinking of a couple of past examples/experiences.

[Dawg pride]

18 hours ago, bearforce1 said:

Union does what Union has always done and always will do. Cant and haven’t won a big game yet. When it gets hard we fall apart.
 

 in turners best interest to clean house. 
 

bostic needs to be gone

edwards needs to be gone 

 

I’ve never seen a worse display of playcall offensively. I mean you have jones, wharton, bunch, mccray, dillman, kaiden keith, maddux, should I go on ??I mean wtf. Did we run more than 6 different plays?? I think we are all tired of watching dive left/right, qb counter/lead left/right, qb counter left right/left. Other than that you can forget it. It is just mind blowing man, I mean when do you step in and change things because they aren’t working? 
 

How are we letting our d coordinator have the authority to burn timeouts? To beat it all, nothing changed after. I mean 0 adjustment defensively.  42 and 58 were absolute cannon fodder up front, but at the end of the day the kids can only do so much and you have to question one of the 15 coaches why we are putting these kids on the field??

 

Will turner get tired of letting his athletes sit on the sideline because they don’t meet the criteria? Will he get tired of being an early playoff exit every year? 
 

probably not, wheels come off every single time against a competent football team. 
 

 

 

9 hours ago, tornado99 said:

Are the Bears where they are because of coaching, talent, or both? I understand your frustration, and the fact that either you see them consistently second or third best. 
 

It seems that the games they lose are always to teams with greater or equal talent and not to those they shouldn’t. They are consistently good, though. The years they go the farthest is usually because of an x-factor (x-James Mitchell). While they have experienced victories over Graham and Abingdon, the Falcons have more to choose from and better resources despite their past history. Graham has had consistently more of those x-factors (Allen, Lester, XTB, Clements, etc.). As I see it from afar, they are about where they should be talent-wise. I’d caution against changing unless you have someone better in mind.

The biggest problem is we have players on the sidelines often times better than is on the field, especially defensively and we have 6 or 7 capable running backs and we use one. When you have a 170lb freshman in on nose guard getting drove 10yds off the play with 260lb beasts standing on the sideline begging to go in and make plays yes people are gonna be up set and advocate for them.

[Union_Fan]

38 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Forgive me for this hypothetical, but do you prefer a great situational coach who can potentially get you a title, but also potentially set your program back by doing whatever it takes to win?

I’m not insinuating that in reality you have to choose, but just thinking of a couple of past examples/experiences.

Obviously, if you knew that would happen after a title, you'd take a pass.

However, with the situation I know about, Union would be in good hands for 10+ years.

[redtiger]

12 hours ago, Dawg pride said:

 

The biggest problem is we have players on the sidelines often times better than is on the field, especially defensively and we have 6 or 7 capable running backs and we use one. When you have a 170lb freshman in on nose guard getting drove 10yds off the play with 260lb beasts standing on the sideline begging to go in and make plays yes people are gonna be up set and advocate for them.

Union has 260 pound BEASTS on the sidelines that don't play? 

[Union_Fan]

2 hours ago, redtiger said:

Union has 260 pound BEASTS on the sidelines that don't play? 

Specifically, I think he means don't play on the D-Line.

[Widespread_Panic]

On 10/28/2024 at 10:27 AM, swva_havok_fan said:

Union wins and it won't even be close.

This did not age well...

[Real Sasquatch]

4 hours ago, redtiger said:

Union has 260 pound BEASTS on the sidelines that don't play? 

Lol

[redtiger]

10 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

Specifically, I think he means don't play on the D-Line.

So these beasts that aren't exactly dominating Abingdons D line are going to suddenly become playmakers on defense? All while becoming 2 way players?

 

I dont think that argument holds water

[BigWinners]

1 minute ago, redtiger said:

So these beasts that aren't exactly dominating Abingdons D line are going to suddenly become playmakers on defense? All while becoming 2 way players?

 

I dont think that argument holds water

The bulk may have helped but we made no effort to adjust to their zone blocking scheme, which they had watched film of all week. 

[redtiger]

Maybe Union just got whipped?

I seem to remember J putting in a 5 man front vs Central several years ago and the U fans crying that it was a 3 man front, now he runs a 4(that the players are comfortable with) and he's dumb for not running a 5/3/whatever. 

If your starting DL can't stop it what makes anyone think the backups will be able to, assuming the starting DL are the best DL available? And if they're not the absolute best then how are the supposedly better OL/DL going to be able to hold up going both ways? 

Maybe things could have been done better, maybe adjustments should have been made, but J isn't a terrible DC. I guarantee he knows the strengths and weaknesses of his players better than anyone on here.

[BigWinners]

1 minute ago, redtiger said:

Maybe Union just got whipped?

I seem to remember J putting in a 5 man front vs Central several years ago and the U fans crying that it was a 3 man front, now he runs a 4(that the players are comfortable with) and he's dumb for not running a 5/3/whatever. 

If your starting DL can't stop it what makes anyone think the backups will be able to? 

They absolutely got whipped.  But when you’re getting whipped, doesn’t it make sense to try something a little different to stop some of the bleeding?  
 

I don’t blame the loss all on Jay at all. The offensive play calling was quite disappointing and in game nine we still have no semblance of a passing game that isn’t a bubble screen or bombs outside the hashes. 

[Unchained]

1 hour ago, BigWinners said:

They absolutely got whipped.  But when you’re getting whipped, doesn’t it make sense to try something a little different to stop some of the bleeding?  
 

I don’t blame the loss all on Jay at all. The offensive play calling was quite disappointing and in game nine we still have no semblance of a passing game that isn’t a bubble screen or bombs outside the hashes. 

I really wish Abe was pulling the trigger and Bostic back at WR. What a weapon he is at that spot. The knock-on Abe is he isn't fast, but he has picked up some speed and has a MUCH better arm.

[Union_Fan]

1 hour ago, redtiger said:

So these beasts that aren't exactly dominating Abingdons D line are going to suddenly become playmakers on defense? All while becoming 2 way players?

 

I dont think that argument holds water

The term "beasts" may be overboard, but I think his basic argument was a 260 lb body wouldn't get pushed around as easily as a 180 lb body. I'm not sure which players he was specifically referencing.

Union's O line is good, but I don't think it matters how good when 5 guys are trying to block 7. 

With Graham, it felt like they were sending 15 guys because they knew exactly what Union was doing and daring them to pass.

I guess it's hard to win any game of equal or greater talent when they know exactly what plays you're running.

 

[BigWinners]

1 hour ago, Unchained said:

I really wish Abe was pulling the trigger and Bostic back at WR. What a weapon he is at that spot. The knock-on Abe is he isn't fast, but he has picked up some speed and has a MUCH better arm.

I’d rather have an average speed QB who can throw than a lighting quick one who struggles to connect with the receivers but maybe I’m crazy. 

[Dawg pride]

3 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

The term "beasts" may be overboard, but I think his basic argument was a 260 lb body wouldn't get pushed around as easily as a 180 lb body. I'm not sure which players he was specifically referencing.

Union's O line is good, but I don't think it matters how good when 5 guys are trying to block 7. 

With Graham, it felt like they were sending 15 guys because they knew exactly what Union was doing and daring them to pass.

I guess it's hard to win any game of equal or greater talent when they know exactly what plays you're running.

 

Go watch a practice or 2 / you'll see real quick who needs to be starting on DL and it's none that are but 11 on DE

[goose111874]

4 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

The term "beasts" may be overboard, but I think his basic argument was a 260 lb body wouldn't get pushed around as easily as a 180 lb body. I'm not sure which players he was specifically referencing.

 

 

Someone referenced the player as a freshman so I assume it’s Polier.  He’s the only Freshman I saw on the D Line.  Didn’t read all the previous posts so could be wrong 

[CriticalNoise]

On 11/4/2024 at 1:05 AM, goose111874 said:

Someone referenced the player as a freshman so I assume it’s Polier.  He’s the only Freshman I saw on the D Line.  Didn’t read all the previous posts so could be wrong 

Ding Ding.

Last name....

What has Polier done for U?

HAHAHAHA. The piece fits the puzzle