JIB/PV - 1992

[Football is Cool]

Elders of SWVA, Why did Norton forfeit that contest? 

[Union_Fan]

Do not recall the name or the reason, but pretty sure it was due to an ineligible player.

[Unchained]

38 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Do not recall the name or the reason, but pretty sure it was due to an ineligible player.

Matt Cowden if I recall right.

[Gridiron60]

28 minutes ago, Unchained said:

Matt Cowden if I recall right.

Do you know if Ryan Cowden who played for Lebanon in the 90s would have been related? I could be wrong but I was thinking PV lost to Lebanon in the playoffs that year. I might be totally mixed with all that though. 

[Unchained]

2 minutes ago, Gridiron60 said:

Do you know if Ryan Cowden who played for Lebanon in the 90s would have been related? I could be wrong but I was thinking PV lost to Lebanon in the playoffs that year. I might be totally mixed with all that though. 

I'm not sure. There are several Cowdens in Norton.

[Gridiron60]

2 minutes ago, Unchained said:

I'm not sure. There are several Cowdens in Norton.

I checked Four Seasons site, Lebanon did beat Powell Valley in 1992. 

[Football is Cool]

2 hours ago, Gridiron60 said:

I checked Four Seasons site, Lebanon did beat Powell Valley in 1992. 

Interesting enough you mention four seasons. That’s where I got this question 

[vol_husky]

4 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

Do not recall the name or the reason, but pretty sure it was due to an ineligible player.

Was a game actually played? If so what was the result if not for the forfeit?

[Union_Fan]

45 minutes ago, vol_husky said:

Was a game actually played? If so what was the result if not for the forfeit?

I have no idea. Can't find any info other than it was a forfeit.

[Gridiron60]

1 hour ago, Football is Cool said:

Interesting enough you mention four seasons. That’s where I got this question 

Also, on Four Seasons, Powell Valley put down Lebanon two years later in state semifinals. I’ve searched some newspaper archives & have only found the game in 1992 was a forfeit but no reason given. Ineligible player seems plausible but if so, ineligible for a single game or maybe only game he had played in while ineligible??

[BigWinners]

The game this year will be super fun. Can Leb give Reese enough time to throw? Can they stop Bears ground game?  Huge trap game coming off Graham and Tazwell

[RichRich]

7 hours ago, Gridiron60 said:

I checked Four Seasons site, Lebanon did beat Powell Valley in 1992. 

Was it Leb that has cleats that were to long one yr in the playoff?  I don't remember Norton Forfeiting a game against them but its crazy to think that's over 30 yrs ago.  

[swvavol]

7 hours ago, RichRich said:

Was it Leb that has cleats that were to long one yr in the playoff?  I don't remember Norton Forfeiting a game against them but its crazy to think that's over 30 yrs ago.  

No, that was Richlands that had the cleats that were too long

[PV8]

There was an incident with the head coach making racial remarks to a player. PV fans were in line and were told game had been forfeited. It was also the first Lions Bowl game between the two schools. Burton had beaten PV the previous year at Bullitt Park. Strange situation for sure.

[redtiger]

I conferred with the elders, JIB played an ineligible player 

[Fairlawncat]

18 hours ago, RichRich said:

Was it Leb that has cleats that were to long one yr in the playoff?  I don't remember Norton Forfeiting a game against them but its crazy to think that's over 30 yrs ago.  

I know I'm getting old when the Richlands-Vaught-Cleat-Salem issue has for the first time in my life, kind of been forgotten as to its exactness. Seems like it was yesterday to me and I was a junior in college.

If I'm not mistaken, it was actually the Richlands supposed treatment of Orange County fans (state title game) in the 1992 season which was the next game after Salem. People often tell or think the long cleats issue is why Richlands was placed on probation/banned from the playoffs the following year in 1993, but to my understanding, officially, it was due to the treatment of Orange County fans in the state title game in the form of massive snowballs being hurled at Orange County fans, team, and band that officially penalized Richlands for the 93 season. Richlands was not required to forfeit the win over Salem in the semis in 92 or the state title win the next week over Orange County. 

From allegedly spraying the field with water before the game with Salem (which was untrue) to long-illegal cleats against Salem (probably true) and the talk that followed for years and it reached the VHSL, I could be wrong, but if my memory is right, the official discpline/banning of the playoffs for the 1993 season/punishment by the VHSL was due to the treatment of Orange County in the title game. I remember reading that in the Roanoke Times. Years later and decades that followed, all thats remembered of the issue was the cleats, but technically it wasn't the cleats that did in Richlands for their punishment which was served for the 1993 season in the form of no playoffs/post season. I could be wrong, but swear that I read this in the Roanoke Times years ago.

[Union_Fan]

56 minutes ago, Fairlawncat said:

I know I'm getting old when the Richlands-Vaught-Cleat-Salem issue has for the first time in my life, kind of been forgotten as to its exactness. Seems like it was yesterday to me and I was a junior in college.

If I'm not mistaken, it was actually the Richlands supposed treatment of Orange County fans (state title game) in the 1992 season which was the next game after Salem. People often tell or think the long cleats issue is why Richlands was placed on probation/banned from the playoffs the following year in 1993, but to my understanding, officially, it was due to the treatment of Orange County fans in the state title game in the form of massive snowballs being hurled at Orange County fans, team, and band that officially penalized Richlands for the 93 season. Richlands was not required to forfeit the win over Salem in the semis in 92 or the state title win the next week over Orange County. 

From allegedly spraying the field with water before the game with Salem (which was untrue) to long-illegal cleats against Salem (probably true) and the talk that followed for years and it reached the VHSL, I could be wrong, but if my memory is right, the official discpline/banning of the playoffs for the 1993 season/punishment by the VHSL was due to the treatment of Orange County in the title game. I remember reading that in the Roanoke Times. Years later and decades that followed, all thats remembered of the issue was the cleats, but technically it wasn't the cleats that did in Richlands for their punishment which was served for the 1993 season in the form of no playoffs/post season. I could be wrong, but swear that I read this in the Roanoke Times years ago.

Looks like it was both...

https://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/ROA-Times/issues/1993/rt9301/930129/01290165.htm

 

[tornado99]

46 minutes ago, Fairlawncat said:

I know I'm getting old when the Richlands-Vaught-Cleat-Salem issue has for the first time in my life, kind of been forgotten as to its exactness. Seems like it was yesterday to me and I was a junior in college.

If I'm not mistaken, it was actually the Richlands supposed treatment of Orange County fans (state title game) in the 1992 season which was the next game after Salem. People often tell or think the long cleats issue is why Richlands was placed on probation/banned from the playoffs the following year in 1993, but to my understanding, officially, it was due to the treatment of Orange County fans in the state title game in the form of massive snowballs being hurled at Orange County fans, team, and band that officially penalized Richlands for the 93 season. Richlands was not required to forfeit the win over Salem in the semis in 92 or the state title win the next week over Orange County. 

From allegedly spraying the field with water before the game with Salem (which was untrue) to long-illegal cleats against Salem (probably true) and the talk that followed for years and it reached the VHSL, I could be wrong, but if my memory is right, the official discpline/banning of the playoffs for the 1993 season/punishment by the VHSL was due to the treatment of Orange County in the title game. I remember reading that in the Roanoke Times. Years later and decades that followed, all thats remembered of the issue was the cleats, but technically it wasn't the cleats that did in Richlands for their punishment which was served for the 1993 season in the form of no playoffs/post season. I could be wrong, but swear that I read this in the Roanoke Times years ago.

Right, wrong, or rumors, I attended those games as a 12-year old. The snow you speak of is what caused the mud. It was a heavy wet, snow. I remember attempts to dry using a helicopter. The leftover snow obviously made the ammunition. I vaguely remember some snowballs being thrown randomly, but I can’t remember a specific target. As for the rumor, I had heard the incident was instigated by Orange County players taunting. Either way, I think the details of the suspension may have been as you said. I just thought or remembered it as culmination of both events. Like I said, I was 12 and probably saw the world (sometimes still do) through Navy colored glasses.

[tornado99]

This is a good time to point out several factors of that 1992 state championship team. 
1. This was one of the few Richlands teams that had decent athletes at several positions, but still, not the elite athletes that are usually on a title team. As I recall, I don’t believe there was a single D-1 player on that team. (See Graham’s run of talent today. Graham and Bluefield of the 1990s almost always had 1 or 2 speedsters at least.)

2. The team had a big, strong, line. During my formative years, this was what I thought was the brand of Richlands football. I think it is a combination of stereotyping and self-awareness. During those days, the prevailing style of play could sometimes allow you to outmuscle a team. 

3. Coaching. Say what you will, Dennis Vaught knew how to get the best out of his players and then some. Also, if I recall correctly, his staff included a young Dennis Palmer and maybe Greg Mance amongst others. 
 

4. Weather and home field advantage.  Those factors could not have lined up better. That year, when it was customary for Regions to alternate hosting, Richlands had the honor by winning Region 4 of hosting the entire playoffs. The wet November-December snow on a grass/mud field allowed the power based team to overpower their more athletic counterparts (Marcus Parker and Salem), cleat controversy aside. 
 

Despite the controversy and hard feelings from the outside, this team is so special to Richlands fans. We know that we typically don’t have that talent together with the other factors often. We typically aren’t built on speed. 
Credit to Mance later, his efforts to learn and implement the spread before anyone else led to the results in the mid 2000s. The infusion of the key transfers bringing the speed element helped supplement it during the early to mid-2010s. 
Realistically, I think some of us remember the dark ages before and can look back on how special it was, and hope we can enjoy some good times again, and fully embrace when another special group come along at the same time.

[RichRich]

On 8/13/2025 at 9:18 AM, swvavol said:

No, that was Richlands that had the cleats that were too long

Thanks,  crazy how long that has actually been.   My memory is slipping.  

[RichRich]

20 hours ago, PV8 said:

There was an incident with the head coach making racial remarks to a player. PV fans were in line and were told game had been forfeited. It was also the first Lions Bowl game between the two schools. Burton had beaten PV the previous year at Bullitt Park. Strange situation for sure.

JIBs head coach was making racist comment to PV?  Seems odd as Norton def wasn't the place back then to be saying anything like that.  Not saying there is a place and a time but that time certainly seems like a very unwise time.

[Wolf1207]

The biggest shock to me was at that time Burton won at Bullet Park. Hadn’t PV just gone back to back state titles near that time. 

[PV8]

On 8/14/2025 at 10:45 AM, RichRich said:

JIBs head coach was making racist comment to PV?  Seems odd as Norton def wasn't the place back then to be saying anything like that.  Not saying there is a place and a time but that time certainly seems like a very unwise time.

His own player.

[goose111874]

13 hours ago, Wolf1207 said:

The biggest shock to me was at that time Burton won at Bullet Park. Hadn’t PV just gone back to back state titles near that time. 

I could be off on the years but after winning in 89 and 90 PV had a few only decent seasons before the Jones boys showed up

[tornado99]

1 hour ago, goose111874 said:

I could be off on the years but after winning in 89 and 90 PV had a few only decent seasons before the Jones boys showed up

I’m probably not qualified to speak on this, but that is my perception on PV and Union. They are always solid from a talent perspective and can beat most teams consistently based off that talent. The special talent correlates to championships. That special talent is has even bigger impact at the smaller schools.

Besides coaching, I believe this has been the ever so slight advantage of Graham to Union most years is the player who can score at any moment. That said, I don’t know if Graham has any edge this year as last year (7-6 regular season). As many have said, this is why Union winning would not surprise me at all. I can’t see a talent edge at all. 
 

I think both has the highest floors from year to year.