Union HC 2026

[tornado99]

1 minute ago, sup_rbeast said:

The formation has a lot to do with it. Theres not many where you just line up and batter the opposition 30 times per night with the same back running 2 or 3 base plays. I can tell you from experience, to a man PV wasn’t any bigger or faster than the teams they played than most other quality teams are. Most years the PV O Line averaged around 6’ and 220 lbs. They had a monster here and there, but most were just normal sized kids for their positions. The backs usually were fairly fast, with usually at least 1 speed demon…but nearly every team has similar players. It had more to do with coaching from P-Nut thru Varsity than anything else. The two teams from the LPD in the 80s thru the mid 90s with the biggest linemen were usually Clintwood and Coeburn…by a longshot.

I agree with you here, but didn’t realize the similarities in size. I usually point out the speed demon as the usual difference in success here.  Apparently, the youth coaches do a great job. My perception overall, is that the Vikings had special speed demons more often than most others. I think that gift or ability is the usual factor that sets some teams apart when a hole or a missed tackle is a TD vs an extended series. In all fairness, my memories include Thomas and Julius who were truly unique.

[bucfan64]

23 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

Over the last few years, I have often wondered why all suggestions, offers of help (Phil Robbins offered assistance in 2015 on stopping the single wing of Clarke Co and was met with an emphatic "thanks, but no thanks"), and anything viewed as a critique has been met with scorn, ridicule, banishment and those with the loudest voices being completely ostracized.

 

Phil knew how to stop the Single Wing, your mention brings back memories of the 2000 Regional Finals when I was coaching at Honaker, we just beat PV and Phil came into the coaches office , grabbed a marker, went to the board and said "here is how you beat that bunch." 

We implemented his rules and strategy and went on to beat them in the State Semis.

 

If we listened to him, I can't imagine why anyone from BSG wouldn't.

 

[sup_rbeast]

6 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

I agree with you here, but didn’t realize the similarities in size. I usually point out the speed demon as the usual difference in success here.  Apparently, the youth coaches do a great job. My perception overall, is that the Vikings had special speed demons more often than most others. I think that gift or ability is the usual factor that sets some teams apart when a hole or a missed tackle is a TD vs an extended series. In all fairness, my memories include Thomas and Julius who were truly unique.

The Jones boys were both obviously talented from the first time they played P-Nut Football. People tend to forget that PV had 4 titles before they ever made it to varsity. Honestly, out of 65 players, the Vikings usually had 2 or 3 really fast kids, a handful of really big kids, and then the rest were kids that didn’t have any standout features to their height, weight, or speed. They had the benefit of a great 10 year program, though. Of the really big kids, usually 1/3 were just big and hardly ever saw the field.

[Union_Fan]

22 minutes ago, bucfan64 said:

If we listened to him, I can't imagine why anyone from BSG wouldn't.

 

Explains a lot now though, doesn't it?

[Liam McPoyle]

11 minutes ago, bucfan64 said:

 

 

If we listened to him, I can't imagine why anyone from BSG wouldn't.

23 hours ago, Union_Fan said:

Over the last few years, I have often wondered why all suggestions, offers of help (Phil Robbins offered assistance in 2015 on stopping the single wing of Clarke Co and was met with an emphatic "thanks, but no thanks")

 

Travis would’ve been just 35 years old and only in his fifth season, so there are several reasons he might’ve declined Robbins’ help:

-Youthful confidence — believing he didn’t need anyone’s help to stop the single wing.

-Pride and perception — maybe he did want the help, but didn’t want to share the credit or have fans think he couldn’t handle it himself.

-Personal friction — or, deep down, he simply didn’t like Robbins.

[redtiger]

2 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

The Jones boys were both obviously talented from the first time they played P-Nut Football. People tend to forget that PV had 4 titles before they ever made it to varsity. Honestly, out of 65 players, the Vikings usually had 2 or 3 really fast kids, a handful of really big kids, and then the rest were kids that didn’t have any standout features to their height, weight, or speed. They had the benefit of a great 10 year program, though. Of the really big kids, usually 1/3 were just big and hardly ever saw the field.

When watching old games of PV one thing that jumps out is they had football players, not just kids on the team, at every position. 11 legit ball players were on the field every play, no holes, no kids being "coached up". 

[vol_husky]

48 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said:

 

Travis would’ve been just 35 years old and only in his fifth season, so there are several reasons he might’ve declined Robbins’ help:

-Youthful confidence — believing he didn’t need anyone’s help to stop the single wing.

-Pride and perception — maybe he did want the help, but didn’t want to share the credit or have fans think he couldn’t handle it himself.

-Personal friction — or, deep down, he simply didn’t like Robbins.

Well. Phil Robbins did put Travis Turner in position to take his spot at Powell Valley, and by extension the coach at Union since Wise County consolidated schools. One would imagine that he would remember that and appreciate the help afforded to him. 
 

Also, looking at history, Phil coached at Christiansburg, and didn’t they play Giles every year? Seems like he would have gotten quite a bit of experience coaching against the single wing. 
 

Also, didn’t Powell Valley have the upper hand in the series against Giles? That right there should have been a clue that perhaps the guy knew what he was talking about. 
 

Single wing is no joke when it is run right. 

[Union_Fan]

43 minutes ago, Liam McPoyle said:

 

Travis would’ve been just 35 years old and only in his fifth season, so there are several reasons he might’ve declined Robbins’ help:

-Youthful confidence — believing he didn’t need anyone’s help to stop the single wing.

-Pride and perception — maybe he did want the help, but didn’t want to share the credit or have fans think he couldn’t handle it himself.

-Personal friction — or, deep down, he simply didn’t like Robbins.

Believe it or not, all these reasons were discussed at the time, up to and including just a few weeks ago, and accepted as the likely answer. I mean, they make perfect sense, right?

As time went on, a pattern emerged, which I and @Fairlawncat addressed, and it started to become abundantly clear what the problem was... "You're either for me or against me." No room for complaints, critiques or simple advice. When people are directly told "we don't want criticism, we only want fans."

I've never seen such a scrubbing of social media in BSG. Before all is said and done, it will look like there was never a single supporter of the ol' head football coach.

[BigWinners]

1 hour ago, vol_husky said:

Well. Phil Robbins did put Travis Turner in position to take his spot at Powell Valley, and by extension the coach at Union since Wise County consolidated schools. One would imagine that he would remember that and appreciate the help afforded to him. 
 

Also, looking at history, Phil coached at Christiansburg, and didn’t they play Giles every year? Seems like he would have gotten quite a bit of experience coaching against the single wing. 
 

Also, didn’t Powell Valley have the upper hand in the series against Giles? That right there should have been a clue that perhaps the guy knew what he was talking about. 
 

Single wing is no joke when it is run right. 

Yep, Phil was 3-2 against Giles. Should have been 4-1 but they got us in 96 by a touchdown in Pearisburg.  They drummed us in 06 but they were miles better than PV that year and wanted revenge for the drubbing we gave them in 04 up there. Giles never won in BSG, PV was 2-2 against Giles. Four seasons has it wrong, PV went to Giles in 2004, not played in BSG. 

[vol_husky]

1 hour ago, redtiger said:

When watching old games of PV one thing that jumps out is they had football players, not just kids on the team, at every position. 11 legit ball players were on the field every play, no holes, no kids being "coached up". 

I would have compared those old Powell Valley teams to 6 headed monsters that you could not vanquish. If you neutralized one element, the other element would step up long enough for the previous elements to step up later. Like cutting off one of the six heads. The head needed time to grow back. During the interim, the other heads grew more ferocious. Then the cut off head would grow back, strong as ever. 
 

You couldn’t neutralize them. 

[Liam McPoyle]

32 minutes ago, Union_Fan said:

Believe it or not, all these reasons were discussed at the time, up to and including just a few weeks ago, and accepted as the likely answer. I mean, they make perfect sense, right?

As time went on, a pattern emerged, which I and @Fairlawncat addressed, and it started to become abundantly clear what the problem was... "You're either for me or against me." No room for complaints, critiques or simple advice. When people are directly told "we don't want criticism, we only want fans."

I've never seen such a scrubbing of social media in BSG. Before all is said and done, it will look like there was never a single supporter of the ol' head football coach.

I went back and reread your post and I see your point — not sure how I missed it the first time. The pattern really does suggest something deeper. He’s got those classic rigid, narcissistic-type traits where every suggestion feels like an attack, and disagreement simply isn’t tolerated in his realm.

[sup_rbeast]

1 hour ago, redtiger said:

When watching old games of PV one thing that jumps out is they had football players, not just kids on the team, at every position. 11 legit ball players were on the field every play, no holes, no kids being "coached up". 

You were prepared during the week. If you still needed to be “coached up” on game day, you wouldn’t be out there.

[Hokiebird7]

9 hours ago, BigWinners said:

Yep, Phil was 3-2 against Giles. Should have been 4-1 but they got us in 96 by a touchdown in Pearisburg.  They drummed us in 06 but they were miles better than PV that year and wanted revenge for the drubbing we gave them in 04 up there. Giles never won in BSG, PV was 2-2 against Giles. Four seasons has it wrong, PV went to Giles in 2004, not played in BSG. 

Giles was damn good in 96

And if im correct we didn't attempt a pass in 06...we were damn good that year too led by Princeton head coach Nathan Tanner 

[Wolf1207]

9 hours ago, BigWinners said:

Yep, Phil was 3-2 against Giles. Should have been 4-1 but they got us in 96 by a touchdown in Pearisburg.  They drummed us in 06 but they were miles better than PV that year and wanted revenge for the drubbing we gave them in 04 up there. Giles never won in BSG, PV was 2-2 against Giles. Four seasons has it wrong, PV went to Giles in 2004, not played in BSG. 

Don't remind Clintwood people of 1996. The wave average about 6 yards a carry to inside the 10. Then we want to throw on 3 straight downs and lose. 

[tornado99]

Just to clear, my thoughts and responses are not meant to suggest Robbin’s or anyone else (Palmer in Graham’s case), aren’t good coaches. It’s just that they didn’t or don’t necessarily have to be because of the talent at its disposal and/or the youth program. 
Beast and redtiger clearly brought that out. I say that to point out that Union administration can concentrate on the bigger issues while being confident that the right selection will be fine if they don’t completely mess it up.

[vol_husky]

10 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Just to clear, my thoughts and responses are not meant to suggest Robbin’s or anyone else (Palmer in Graham’s case), aren’t good coaches. It’s just that they didn’t or don’t necessarily have to be because of the talent at its disposal and/or the youth program. 
Beast and redtiger clearly brought that out. I say that to point out that Union administration can concentrate on the bigger issues while being confident that the right selection will be fine if they don’t completely mess it up.

I don’t disagree with you. But I have seen teams at different levels with lots of talent, whether in general or more talent than the other team, end up coming short in title games or fizzling out due to poor coaching. 
 

If you have all the talent in the world and have someone as foolish as Rep. AOC coaching then that is going to be exposed. 
 

Take the 2016 UT Vols for instance. They had enough talent to be top 10. But that was when Butch Jones began to REALLY get exposed for the schmuck he is. And had to settle for Music City Bowl. 

[Bcats]

35 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Just to clear, my thoughts and responses are not meant to suggest Robbin’s or anyone else (Palmer in Graham’s case), aren’t good coaches. It’s just that they didn’t or don’t necessarily have to be because of the talent at its disposal and/or the youth program. 
Beast and redtiger clearly brought that out. I say that to point out that Union administration can concentrate on the bigger issues while being confident that the right selection will be fine if they don’t completely mess it up.

I think coach Palmer is a great coach, not this year Va High but Va High 2019-24 as long as I've been associated with the cats I've never seen that much collection of talent, they had more Athletes than Graham during that time, they didn't have the line play Graham did but Va High had so many kids if you blinked they would take it to the house. During those years Graham has multiple state championships and Va High didn't even come close to sniffing a state title, that's on Coach Palmer to get the kids to leave their egos in the locker room and to buy in as a team, yes he has talent but he's also a great coach 

[redtiger]

11 hours ago, sup_rbeast said:

You were prepared during the week. If you still needed to be “coached up” on game day, you wouldn’t be out there.

A lot of programs dont have that option,  most did and still have a few on the field that are developing. Those PV teams were very well prepared. Idk if that was just in the off-seasonal nd through the week or from coming up under well prepared and dedicated youth coaches.

[sup_rbeast]

8 hours ago, redtiger said:

A lot of programs dont have that option,  most did and still have a few on the field that are developing. Those PV teams were very well prepared. Idk if that was just in the off-seasonal nd through the week or from coming up under well prepared and dedicated youth coaches.

It was really just a build up of knowledge and coaching over the 10 years a kid was in the program. At 12 years old kids graduated the P-Nut program and were expected to know the base plays and know how to play basic defense and block and tackle. In 8th grade they started placing kids where they were most likely to play on varsity and added defensive fronts, blitzes (not allowed in P-Nut), more intricate blocking schemes, etc. The more intelligent linemen were identified to turn into offensive linemen, the faster kids were guided to skill positions, and the two most likely future QBs were picked to develop.  Until the early 90s, no freshmen dressed with varsity, they were JV only and it was basically an extension of 8th grade, except there were more blocking schemes involved and the defense started looking more like the varsity base defense. Once you got to varsity, you were expected to know everything you had been taught in the previous 7 years and you were basically coached in refining your technique and fundamentals, introduced to more and more formations to run the base plays out of, and prepared for each team you played week to week. If you paid attention, and you had to if you planned to play, you weren’t out there not knowing what to do when a particular situation arose. That was more or less it. The thing is most of the P-Nut teams back then had the same coaches year after year, and the JV and varsity coaches stayed the same. 8th grade coaches came and went, but they all did their jobs in that position. It did make for a pipeline of good football players and a deep roster for sure, but there was very much a method to it. But, it paid off with rosters every year of 50+ players where around 75% could step onto the field as sophomores if needed and not hurt the team.

[jarhead24219]

I dressed and started as a freshman as a guard, Maddox then Bolling , Graham  Clark, and Bobby Couphlin  were my coaches

[sup_rbeast]

10 minutes ago, jarhead24219 said:

I dressed and started as a freshman as a guard, Maddox then Bolling , Graham  Clark, and Bobby Couphlin  were my coaches

That ended after Bolling resigned. From 1983 to 1993, the only 9th graders I ever recall being brought up to varsity were Todd Clendenon and Kelly Willis.. and that was after QB Robbie Duncan was injured vs Appy in 1990. Neither of those guys saw the field that season, but it was just for the playoff run. The next 9th grader to play varsity was Thomas Jones. Coughlin was my JV coach, and a very important but often overlooked cog in the machine back then. The community lost a good one a couple weeks ago when he passed. He was one hard nosed coach.

[Liam McPoyle]

24 minutes ago, jarhead24219 said:

Graham  Clark

Great coach and a great man

[tornado99]

10 hours ago, Bcats said:

I think coach Palmer is a great coach, not this year Va High but Va High 2019-24 as long as I've been associated with the cats I've never seen that much collection of talent, they had more Athletes than Graham during that time, they didn't have the line play Graham did but Va High had so many kids if you blinked they would take it to the house. During those years Graham has multiple state championships and Va High didn't even come close to sniffing a state title, that's on Coach Palmer to get the kids to leave their egos in the locker room and to buy in as a team, yes he has talent but he's also a great coach 

I don’t disagree, but will add part of the brilliance is surrounding himself with a great staff. I hate to dumb it down, but you mentioned lineplay. I don’t know if it’s fair to credit the feeder program as the one that feeds Union, but with the exception of the rough years between Carlock and Palmer, Graham has usually had a combination of big linemen with those athletes. I always remember them being big, even if part of it was the Carlock neck roll illusion.

[tornado99]

Speaking of Union’s feeder system, and sup_rbeast’s description of the PV players, what always stood out to me wasn’t that the linemen were massive in size, but a lot of the players looked built, especially the fullbacks/running backs. We had some dedicated weight room warriors and some huge linemen, but our fastest guys were not as big. I feel like the PV fullbacks especially were 200 lb or heavier.

[sup_rbeast]

13 minutes ago, tornado99 said:

Speaking of Union’s feeder system, and sup_rbeast’s description of the PV players, what always stood out to me wasn’t that the linemen were massive in size, but a lot of the players looked built, especially the fullbacks/running backs. We had some dedicated weight room warriors and some huge linemen, but our fastest guys were not as big. I feel like the PV fullbacks especially were 200 lb or heavier.

You are spot on there. Most of the fullbacks at PV were as big or bigger than most of the linemen. They weren’t necessarily fast, but they had good hands, blocked well, and could get through the hole on the inside trap which is where the vast majority of their carries came.