I feel for the kids, especially those in high school that will be most affected by having to attend a new/different school. I grew up in Fries and was in 8th grade when the announcement was made that Fries High School would cease to exist after the upcoming school year, my freshman year. Since Fries sits on the border of Carroll and Grayson Counties, with roughly half of the town lying in each county, it was a fight to see which county was responsible for sending buses to get the kids in the Fries area.
If memory serves, the state eventually stepped in and declared each county responsible for its own residents and therefore, must send buses to pick up those kids. The old handshake agreements between the Town of Fries and Grayson and Carroll Counties as to where the cutoff point would be for school districts was no longer valid. It was years before the resentment subsided. I was sent to Carroll County where a Fries kid was in a fight almost every week. Kids were mainly repeating what they were hearing from their parents but the resentment contiued at Carroll until the majority of the Fries kids had completely stopped attending Carroll County schools.
A few ended up at Fort Chiswell like Dyer and Derrick Jackson and a few others went to Galax but eventually, Grayson County realized how valuable the Fries athletes were and started getting the majority of the Fries kids to come to Grayson. The 1997 baseball state championship team is a prime example with the core of the team and 5 or 6 starters all coming from Fries. Independence High School was never dominant in any sport until the arrival of the Fries kids and that continues today.
If the New River Valley is as far as you cover...you should rename your event...that isn't "Southwest" Virginia...
Typical! In the short time I have lived here, it seems as if a large portion of the state from, say, Radford east and north, think that is the ending of the state.
Which way was the wind blowing on #17 and what did you make????
The pin was middle left and I pulled it (chickened out) and was in the left waste area in one of those fingers. The wind was in my face and hurting a tad when standing over the ball so it wasn't blowing directly inland but sort of along the contour and really was not blowing hard for that area. I didn't get up and down so i made bogey but still won a skin for that hole. We played from the Dye (blue) tees and if I remember correctly, it was 2004.
Before moving to my wife's hometown (Galax), the company I worked for did a lot of contract work for Verizon so the team I was on got the opportunity to play several excellent courses all along the southeast, on someone else's dime :D.
That's a good point with some merit. Does tougher equal better? As a spectator, it would almost have to be so long as score is kept. There's the objectivity of "making a good score mean something." -9 at the Masters is and should be significantly more special than -9 at the Memorial. As a participant, perhaps not. So I think I would be well served in saying that I speak through the view of a spectator.
As far as the Memorial, since I'd be willing to wager that the number of active posters on this board who have even been to Dublin, OH, much less the course, is some low non-composite number, I'd say that we're all looking at it in terms of being a spectator.
It doesn't surprise me too much that the subjectivity of the players would rely more on general aesthetics and design over difficulty. One, they're the ones that are walking the four-plus miles every day, and it's their experience to take in. Two, if you're accustomed to shooting 70, and you put up an 81 at a place, it's going to leave a bitter taste in your mouth, whether you'd admit so or not.
I look forward to watching the Classic on TV this summer. One, because it is a big attraction for the reason and should be marketed to the gills. Two, to see if any of those improvements are actually having any kind of effect. The scores were a smidge lower last year, but not enough to where it interests me.
Like I said in another forum, golf is my deal :D. I have played the Old White, along with several other regular tour stops, therefore I know it is not up to tour standards. If they keep making the necessary changes to bring the course up to meet modern equipment, it can be. Sedgefield in Greensboro is on par with The Old White and I have played it with a Champions Tour regular. Great layout, aesthetically appealing classic old course but limited due to modern equipment. especially the ball. Harbour Town is the only course Pete Dye has ever built that I have played that I liked and I have played several. Watch this years PGA Championship in August from Harbour Town, phenomenal course.
I will give Mr. Justice credit, from where The Greenbrier was when he purchased the property to now is remarkable. I played there a few years ago and it had been let go to a certain extent and was not in very good condition. I played there a month before last years tournament and it was much better.
Should be interesting in the MED this year. Graham will be a year older but from other post seem to have some kids looking else where. Bland just doesn't have the depth to win year in and out with the likes of Graham, Fort, Grayson and Galax, but look to be a year away from competing with those top 4. Make note of the word Compete not saying they will win it all. Fort has a good program and look to be better than last year imo. Grayson should be solid this year but need to replace some rb's. lots of yards and TD's between those two seniors last year. and Galax wow, what a year they had but now that is all over but they seem to always have some athletic kids every year and return the peoples brothers. Narrows from what I hear is expecting a better year also like bland just can't compete every year with the rest of the district.
Galax will be better than the "experts" suggest after loosing the best senior class in school history. Of all boys teams this school year, only track failed to qualify for state. Two seniors, Eddie Hanks and Jon Alouf graduated with 5 state championship rings. That is impressive.
Grayson returns a lot of talent and if they can replace Daren Anderson and Xavier Rodriguez, they can do some damage. Max Rodgers may be the best player in this half of Virginia.
Appreciate the information. 42 of 52 is higher than I expected, but it's still not much to crow about. I think it still strengthens the arugment that the Greenbrier, while marginally sufficient as a PGA venue, isn't particularly challenging on a PGA level and should not be treated as if it is.
In terms of "worst courses", golfers have different justifications for ranking courses where they do and what weight they give to the criteria. Most of my arguments have been solely against the scoring conditions, though.
I find the list interesting for the fact that we, as the golfing public, are sold the idea that bigger/longer/tougher equals better. Some of my buddies in Raleigh continually talk about Tobacco Road Golf Club because it is generally regarded as one of the top five toughest courses in America. I think it is a goat track and would be better served as such.
Most touring professionals prefer aesthetics and layout over, say #17 at TPC Sawgrass for example. I love old style courses that have the appearance that they have been there forever. If you polled touring professionals, Pine Valley and Cypress Point would win hands down (and has in recent years) as favorite courses but they are NOT up to tour standards today. In my opinion, Greenbrier was not up to Tour standards either a few years ago although they are making strides to get the course more suited for the caliber player that plays on tour.
Because I don't agree with the absurd proposition that the Greenbrier is a challenging professional course doesn't mean that I don't have knowledge about the game. I "know" that the course was so awful in Year 1 that literally half of the Top 20 lowest rounds of the year were shot there. I "know" that the "OMG MAJOR UPGRADES" made an almost imperceptible dent in the scoring pace. I don't often fall into the "it's local, THEREFORE IT'S AWESOME" trap. If people here continue to think so in the face of objective evidence to the contrary, go right ahead. I "know" that differences of opinion does not "knowledge" make. But I digress.
Golf's by no means my specialty, but facts are facts. -9 is the 2nd-highest score to win in 22 years. Prove it wrong. The reason I used "22 years" as my measurement is that the weather was so awful in 1990 that Greg Norman won with a score of E after the rain cut it back to 54-holes. You want to talk about weather, my friend? THAT is some gnarly weather.
For your point to be nearly as strong as you want it to be, you would have to assume that the weather conditions on the first weekend in June in Dublin, OH were considerably better for 21 out of the previous 22 years (Kenny Perry's score in 2008 was a massive 1 stroke higher). I'm not a meterologist, so I don't have those records in front of me (and I'm not going to spend the time to look them up). So, it's your inference that the weather was solely responsible for the low scores against mine that this year was a historical anomaly that Tiger just happened to benefit from. So be it.
BTW, a 67, while a fine score, is hardly "shredding the course" by professional standards. Let's save that talk for the 61-65 range. Particularly when Tiger was staring at a round of 70 after the 15th hole. He "shredded" the last three holes, sure. He shredded them to an equal degree that Sabbatini gagged and to an equal degree that Romero did well. Romero was just too far behind.
Again, wake me up when Tiger shoots in the 60s in a relevant round in a major. If he wins in 2 weeks, then I'll eat the crow. If not, well, expect a parody thread of this one.
In an attempt at full disclosure, PGATour.com ranks tournament courses, at tournament setup conditions, in terms of difficulty. The Old White at the Greenbrier ranked 42 out of 52 courses used during the 2010 season.
I think this is a better judge of a courses character though.
In my opinion, this is Tiger's new normal. He is 36 with a knee, left knee on top of that, that has been cut on four times. He will win more than his fair share when in contention but the weeks he does not have "it", he will struggle just like everyone else.
Tiger's biggest advantage from 1996 to 2008 was the fact that he could win tournaments with his "C" game and everyone else would struggle to make a cut with their "B" game. Tiger wins by 5 shots with a "B" game and when he has his "A" game, well just look at the 2000 US Open results from Pebble Beach or 1997 Masters.
Tiger will play less and less as he ages and will contend less and less but when he puts it together for a week here and there, we will get weeks like this past. If you doubt my opinion, look up Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus careers. Palmer never won another major after the 1964 Masters at the age of 35. Nicklaus went long stretches between tournaments from the mid 70's into the 80's. But the weeks he put it all together, you got the '86 Masters.
ref comment was a joke...whenever CC comes up i like to mention it...not a problem these days, but back in the early 2000's it was hard to go in there and win...had a tendency to see a lot of funny flags.
I wish the guy luck, the kids in T-Town need a good coach that will stick around for a few years.
I was not living here in the early 2000's, I left at 17 in 1992 and didn't return until 2007. I had heard about some issues over the years before CC was a member of the SWD but that was many years ago. The problem, as it was explained to me, was the head of the association for referees (pre Roanoke Association and Appalachian Association covering this area) was also the longtime principal of CCHS and he would schedule ref's/umps to his/their advantage. That has all been changed from what I understand.
i didn't...in fact i said you don't need that sort of press, you don't want that sort of rep getting started...and you don't...it will be important the kids out there take to him is what I was getting at...you don't need all that hard nosed/hard ass stuff going around...too easy for kids to sit home and play Xbox than to work hard, much less if they think the guy is a slave driver.
Being from CC, he might know a few refs he can bring along to help things out though :) j/k.
That makes more sense. I don't know Shane personally and doubt he knows me. He would remember my brother as I am sure my brother would remember him. They competed against each other in high school and were two of a select few athletes to go on to compete at the college level. The talent level then is not what it is now for this area.
As for the ref's comment and as I have mentioned before, I have never been affiliated with the VHSL and will leave it at that.
Well, I am not from Tazwell and can't say I have ever been there in my life but the fact still remains, Shane is going to have enough to deal with from what I understand about the hierarchy in and around the athletic programs in Tazwell. Don't add to it by getting something unfairly started on a meaningless message board.
From what I heard....He was not the first choice...but, was a MUCH better choice than what was on the table to start with. I hope he comes in and cleans house right off the bat. I'd get rid of everyone already there and just start over if at all possible.
Also, all this "hard nosed" crap is just going to scare off some kids that might otherwise play...you don't need a coach that has a reputation of being a hard ass, you want a coach that cares about your kids and the program and is dedicated to winning...you don't always need to smash every problem with a sledge hammer.
Tazewell has a long way to go...it's more than just a coach can fix. I wish the guy luck, he's going to need all of it he can get.
*just fyi, not referring to Scammell as the other choice either...there was someone on the table before the job was shopped.
Shane believes in hard nosed, smash mouth football. That does not mean nor should it imply that HE is a hard ass. He has enough on his plate, let's not add to it with by taking newspaper quotes out of context. The kids will love him, it's the rest of the community that I am concerned about.
Shane played against my brother back in their high school days. He was a great player. If given a chance, he will be a great coach but from what I understand, that would require great change from the community.
Higher gas prices and less disposable income has some to do with that...
Maybe some but here, its success with basketball and football. All the 10 year old kids that were playing golf two years ago are now playing basketball and football. It's a popularity thing and winning changes perspective. It will be hard for anyone to duplicate Eddie Hanks and Jon Alouf graduating in a few weeks with 5 state championships rings each.
I was with the BRJGT until this year...L11's dad still runs the events...
Gotcha. We have had several kids play in those events over the years. It seems to be dwindling a little over the past couple of years for local participation.
Even for the novice try playing a course at 6300 yards and then try playing it at 6700 and see what a difference it makes....just remember to let me play thru while you are looking for your ball
That is true but the Old White now plays at 7,274 yards with a slope and rating of 141 and 75.7. The slope and rating was 129 and 72.1 in 2010 with a length of 6,852 yards. In case you don't understand slope and rating, the rating number is what the USGA has assigned the course as an "average" score for the scratch golfer. The slope is a divisor to add in someone's handicap to determine the number of strokes a player should receive for the particular course. Basically the higher the number, the harder the course. Going from 72.1 to 75.7 is HUGE.
Not surprisingly, UVA's had a nationally competitive team for quite a while.
Indeed they have. UVA women's program has done what all of the men's programs in Virginia have not been able to do lately, keep the top in-state players in-state. A few like Swanson, Ellenbogen and Jessie Hollandsworth left the state but most stay and play at UVA.
And, you'd be surprised at how much difference 400 yards over an 18-hole course can make...extra distance brings hazards into to play, removes being able to cut-off a dogleg, and makes it a bit more difficult leaving longer approach shots to greens (less loft/spin to get balls to hold greens, etc...). Narrower fairways, deeper rough, faster greens...then add in the extra yardage...can make a golf course MUCH more difficult.
It also changes sight lines and if you play, you know that is key to everything in scoring.
Pretty sure VT is also adding a women's golf program in 2013-14...
If they are, it has not been posted on the NCAA website and I have not heard that. They need to. They may not have been able to keep Meredeth Swanson local because she wanted to go south (South Carolina, she played as team #4 this weekend and SC won NCAA East Regional) but they could have kept Courtney Ellenbogen. I think she would have chosen VT over Duke if that choice were available.
Agreed. Jimbo made the Old White much more difficult by adding about 400 yards to the total length of the course. No longer a pitch and putt like it was a few years back...
To add to your point, the Old White Course went through some modifications other than length. All 18 greens, as well as the practice putting and pitching greens, were reconstructed following the 2010 final round where Stuart Appleby shot a 59. They narrowed a ton of fairways, added trees, expanded the lake on #16 and reseeded new greens on all 18 holes with Tyee Creeping Bentgrass, which is a VERY fast surface.
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ervinton high is done...
in General Discussions and Local Talk
Posted
I feel for the kids, especially those in high school that will be most affected by having to attend a new/different school. I grew up in Fries and was in 8th grade when the announcement was made that Fries High School would cease to exist after the upcoming school year, my freshman year. Since Fries sits on the border of Carroll and Grayson Counties, with roughly half of the town lying in each county, it was a fight to see which county was responsible for sending buses to get the kids in the Fries area.
If memory serves, the state eventually stepped in and declared each county responsible for its own residents and therefore, must send buses to pick up those kids. The old handshake agreements between the Town of Fries and Grayson and Carroll Counties as to where the cutoff point would be for school districts was no longer valid. It was years before the resentment subsided. I was sent to Carroll County where a Fries kid was in a fight almost every week. Kids were mainly repeating what they were hearing from their parents but the resentment contiued at Carroll until the majority of the Fries kids had completely stopped attending Carroll County schools.
A few ended up at Fort Chiswell like Dyer and Derrick Jackson and a few others went to Galax but eventually, Grayson County realized how valuable the Fries athletes were and started getting the majority of the Fries kids to come to Grayson. The 1997 baseball state championship team is a prime example with the core of the team and 5 or 6 starters all coming from Fries. Independence High School was never dominant in any sport until the arrival of the Fries kids and that continues today.