Black Diamond District - Outlook For Other Teams

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

I was wondering if any of the people here might have some insight on what Honaker, Haysi, and Twin Valley project to look like for 2004. I'd love to hear some early comments about them. I remember Honaker being very Senior heavy, but I don't doubt the talent is there to reload and do as well as they did last year. Haysi I remember being a good mix of Juniors and Soph's, so they should be better than last year. Twin Valley had some talent, but with there coaching staff I doubt they win 3 games, especially if they have another loaded schedule.

 

As for Hurley, they only graduate 3 players (1 started at OL/LB, the other two just played offense primarily). Again, the Senior class will be small (no more than 2-3 again unless more kids come out and stick with it), but the Juniors and Soph's should give them a good core of 20. I have no clue about incoming Freshmen, as I never heard an exact estimate on the number of 8th graders in JV (as low as 3, as high as 10 as the JV consisted of 8th through 6th grade). I haven't seen a schedule yet, but if it is similar to last years then the potential for improvement is there. 4-6 was mediocre for what could have been last year. With the kids getting some experience, they shouldn't get jumped on so quickly from the defensive side and with the offensive coord going into his second year, maybe his preparations and game decisions will be improved. Outside of the few kids who play baseball, I've yet to see what the winter in the weight room has done. The biggest concerns I have is there ability to settle on a QB and situate the kids in there positions where they can function best. Last year, a QB controversy arose as the expected starter got injured, then got outplayed in the first few games by the backup, only to see the backup turn into a dud as the season closed with the former starter practicing well. The biggest portion of the running duties should fall on a kid named Shane Justice as he came on really strong toward the years end. He's lightning fast, and has the ability to cut through gaps and sprint to paydirt on every touch. Throw in that he's a hard runner, rarely does one tackler bring him down, he'll have a good year (if he gets his share of carries; last year, he shared carries with roughly 5 or 6 backs). The defense will be coached by somebody else this year (of course, whether they will bring somebody in or Coach Hall takes it over is to be seen). I can only hope that whoever is in charge moves the kids around a bit, getting more size on the D-line, improves tackling in the LB unit, shift undersized kids at LB to DB, and not stick 5'5 kids at Corner spots going up against 6'+ kids at WR and TE.

 

Enough for now. The season is still in its prematurity.

 

 

-Josh

[hhstigerfan 12]

Here's my BDD prediction:

 

Honaker or Haysi, whoever doesn't win the BDD this season, misses the wild card bid 'cause the two schools just love running wild through the Cumberland teams every year.

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

What does Honaker return? The Hurley/Honaker game was the only one I missed last year (moved to Thursday for Halloween, which I worked). I know they replace the QB, but the kid coming up is supposed to be good (Bostic his name, right?), really fast at least. How many Seniors do they lose? How many starters return? Any bright spots to point out early?

 

 

-Josh

[hhstigerfan 12]

We lost our entire back field. Matt Hayes will probably replace Kevin Rose as running back, Andrew Bostic will be the QB. We also lost some good linemen like Ryan Miller and Dustin Short and a good line backer in DJ Hall. But we basically return most of our line from last year. The JV players coming up should do fine, they finished 6-2 last year and they play mostly AA schools. Having Tyler Patrick back free of injuries should be good too!

[bucfan64 309]

I agree with most of the your post, however, I take offense to the comment about TV not having any coaches or somtething to that effect. I am one of the TV coaches and have coached HS football for 14 years and have served as an assistant to 6 different head coaches at 5 different high schools, I have coached on the staff of 3 region chapions and have coached in one state finals, I know what it takes to get there, and I can tell you first hand the situation at TV is much better than it was a few years ago, and it is improving. Amd with that comment, I am not putting down Coach D, he had small numbers and very little help, he finished one season with only two assistants, it was these things that hurt his teams as well as a lack of discipline. Although, the TV coaching staff is overall a young and inexpereinced group, especially on the varsity level. The time that is put into preparation is above average. Last year I alone averaged 6 to 8 hours of video and prep time on Sundays alone. The program was in rough shape and it will take a while to develop a program with some continuity and discipline. Winning will come once we get this current group through the weight program for a couple of years. Will TV ever be able to compete with Honaker and Haysi? Who knows for sure, but the overall product will be better as the next few years go on. We have softened up the schedule in order to compete with smaller schools and hopefully it will have a positive effect on the turnout as well as the morale of the players and community. Hurley did a wonderful job last year and they now have the kids believing in themselves, I commend Wayne Hall on the job that he has done over at the cliff.

 

The biggest change in TV football will come from the use of the weight room. Currently there are a few dedicated athletes in the weight room and the numbers are increasing. On average 18 player are lifting weights regularly and although the numbers look good it is the underclassman who are making the efforts. Only time will tell, as far as my BDD analysis, without a standings . I see it shapin up this way.

 

Haysi will probably be the team to beat, they didn't lose too many seniors and they have a good nucleus returning

 

Honaker will be better than many expect and they do have Haysi at home.

 

Hurley ,Wayne Halls bunch will be much improved and are still very young. They could very well sneak up and upset Haysi or Honaker. This bunch could find a spot in the Division II playoffs. A playoff trip may come down to the TV game

 

Twin Valley- Should win a few this year and be playing competitively with Hurley and smaller schools. If the Panthers can develop an offensive line, 4 or 5 wins just might get them into the Division II playoffs. A trip to the playoffs may come down to who wins the Hurley game

 

 

[ QUOTE ]

 

 

[/ QUOTE ] Whoooooooooooooooooooooo!

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

Granted I only saw Twin Valley play once (against Hurley), there was one thing in particular that stuck out in my mind and said to me "this team is poorly coached". Please pull out your game tape if you do not remember this.

 

Hurley ran the same "gimmick" play twice in this ballgame. The setup is that 5 players lineup to the right of the field, Stack formation with two on the line, and a man falls behind a yard each there after (in essence, creating a wall for the guy in the back to run behind). The first time this play was run, Hurley got a first down (play or two later, TD). The second time resulted in a TD if I remember correctly.

 

Number 1, when such a peciliar formation appears, the smart call is to call a timeout, get your defense over to the sideline, and discuss how to protect yourself against this formation.

 

Number 2, both times this play was run, TV's defense only sent TWO men to cover FIVE. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Everybody and there mother's sister's cousin KNEW the ball would be thrown to the same guy the second time this play was run.

 

I also found it quite strange that TV did not try to establish a ground game on Hurley no more than TV did. In fact, anybody who had seen Hurley play knew how small the team was up front and that running on them up the middle was there biggest weakness.

 

In addition, when you got a QB who throws a pretty good deep ball and WR's who are the same height or taller than the DB's, why not throw deep more often? Once TV did, and they found a big mis-match (a 6' WR versus a 5'5" DB), which led to your only TD. The 5'5" DB was on the field all night, why not throw his way more often (instead of the many throws made 15-20 yards over the middle where a FS sat all night)?

 

Don't take offense to my comments. I never said you and your staff were bad at coaching. I said TV was poorly coached, based on what I saw in one game. I thought your team looked pretty good in general, but there seemed to be no direction. In fact, TV and Hurley were quite evenly matched to the point it is scary. Both of you all fared similar against common opponents (Hurley played Big Creek in a low scoring game; in a scrimmage, Hurley played Pocahontas to about the same score; Haysi and Honaker were both woodshed meetings; we scored more on Ervington than you all, but also gave up more points).

 

Without having seen any of your other games, I'd pretty much say with a high degree of certainty that what separates Hurley and TV from Haysi and Honaker is adjustments and circumstance. Hurley and TV seem to get caught up in what they PLAN to do, not necessarily what the opponents is vunerable in the game. I rarely see adjustments made to better suit the team and give them a better shot at winning (or at least not getting blown out).

 

Thanks for talking. Please respond. I love the discussion.

 

 

-Josh

[bucfan64 309]

I recall the formation that you are referring to and we did call a timeout to explain this to the kids. We also discussed it at halftime and made a proper adjustment. The kids failed to move into that adjustment early in the 4th quarter and Coach V, called a timeout again to explain this to them. I am not going to point fingers at anyone, but if coach V, says run the ball we run, if he says pass the ball we pass. He is the boss and whatever he says goes. We made some mistakes last year that should be attributed to being a new staff of coaches. None of the coaches were even hired until 14 days before two a days.

 

I have worked with coaching staffs that were organized under new coaches and once the continuity developed things improved and that is what I expect this year at TV. Let Hurley line up in some similiar formation or some gadget formation this year and we will be prepared. I have been given the assignment of coaching the defense, and I have done so on the double AA and single A level for 8 of the last 14 years. Hopefully, we can develop that continuity that is needed by assigning coaches to the right position and getting them to work together.

 

I'm not arguing with you, I too enjoy the banter back and forth. You have to remember that Coach V was a first year coach and although I didn't agree with everything he did, I stand behind him 100%, because right now TV needs loyalty, commitment and discipine.

 

Do you feel that Hurley has a chance to reach the D2 playoffs this year? If there schedule hasn't changed I think that they have an excellent shot at making it this time around.

 

 

In regards to the establishing a ground game against Hurley, It was the game plan, but our line play had been so lethargic all year long and Hurley started putting 9 and 10 in the box and the backers were keying every move that Booker made. We tried to offset that with some quick and short routes. As far as passing the ball over the middle. The QB made some bad reads. Yes, we went over the middle, but with a 3 deep secondary, we try to force the corner and safety into a situation. For example (If we are in a pro right formation, we will run a short out route with the right side slot, this should occupy the DB or leave him wide open, the OLB can't cover that quick out route from where he is playing, we will then run the tightend on a flag route, behind the corner or DB who is covering the out route, this forces the DB to make a decision, he can't play both of them, then if the safety tries to move over and cover the flag route we will drag the backside split to the middle of the field to fill the safety spot, in other word we are forcing 2 to play 3, the QB made the wrong read several times, he is young and that is to be expected. If you can visualize just some of what I am talking about, you will realize that it is the correct and most accurate way to attack the zone, although it is only one simple package of routes. Every pass route that we ran last year, and I mean every route was designed to creating an either or situation for the db's or the safety, it is up to the QB to make the correct decision, and in many cases he did just that. Hope this has explained some things and has been of help..

 

out!

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

To my recollection, the only timeout called in reference to the formation I speak of was called just after Hurley ran this play the first time. It was a drive or two later before Hurley ever used the formation again and only 2 players came over.

 

I have yet to hear/see what Hurley's schedule will look like for '04. In my humble opinion, I do not think the schedule is very important. Last season, Hurley was poorly prepared in a lot of situations, and the coaching staff made little to no adjustments when things didn't work.

 

Let me give you an example. At East Ridge, Hurley was trying to run the ball between the tackles at a point where they were losing 24-6 in the late 3rd, on through to the late 4th quarter. With maybe 2 minutes on the clock, they start throwing the ball, but cannot get in sync (one, maybe 2 completions at best).

 

My point is, you cannot run a fullback up the gut continuously, have it fail to gain first downs, and still expect to win the game. When Hurley went to Tug Valley and got smoked, do you realize that because the QB was throwing more completions to the defense than his offense (I think he tied for 2nd in the WV stat books for interceptions in a single game), Hurley was still trying to run out of a Wishbone in the 4th quarter?

 

If your QB was making the wrong reads (your words), then it says to me the same thing I thought all year about Hurley's QB and the coaching involved. None of them were prepared to actually throw the ball, and have a decent looking passing game. You all probably were in the same boat. There is more things involved with a passing attack than just drop back and heave it to the open guy, but I know for a fact Hurley never did anything more than "run the play as designed; throw it to the primary target".

 

Why? Because I watched most every practice they had. Am I more an expert than yourself or Hurley's coaching staff? No way. But, I am in a position of no bias, no stress, and no fault. I am not concerned with looking good, or having "my way" work. I am of the opinion that you coach a team, in all aspects, to best win every game you play.

 

It is this attitude, not the players, not the coaches, that separates Hurley and Twin Valley from being on the same rungs as Honaker and Haysi have been the last few years. The talent is there, just not the attitude of doing whatever it takes to win.

 

 

-Josh

[bucfan64 309]

I agree with what you are saying in regards to the right attitude to win a game. I like to put it this way, everybody wants to win but very few are willing to do what it takes to keep from losing.

 

The fact that our QB made some bad reads isn't due to lack of preparation, we reviewed pass skeleton every single practice for at least a half an hour. The kid was young and had the tendency to go to a receiver that he thought was more sure handed, that isn't always the best decision, but it was his first year at the position.

 

As far as Honaker goes, I can tell you anything about them, I coached there from 2000-2003. TV does similiar preparation techniques and drills as they do. The one advantage that Honaker and haysi have over TV and Hurley is numbers and continuity on the coaching staff. I am just an assistant, and like many other assistants there are times when you want to do something one way but the head coach wants it done another way. The head coach has the final decision. For example, the East Ridge game you referred to, just maybe Coach Hall wanted to keep pounding away and was playing more for pride and trying to keep the score close, he might have thought that airing it out could lead to a more lopsised defeat.

 

I am not defending the action, I am just making a point that it may not be the guy calling the offense, it may be the head coach putting reigns on him. I don't see a lot of value in losing by 12 or 40 a loss is a loss, and I agree with you that you need to do whatever it takes to try to pick up the win. But sometimes by playing a good opponent close in a game and not getting waxed by them, proves to be motivational tool down the line, a measuring stick if you will.

 

I like to see diversity in an offense, some folks believe in doing one thing and doing it very well. For example having about 6 or 7 base plays and running them to death but with pinpoint accuracy. This is predictable and it is easier to defend. I myself like to create a variety of formations with a core group of base plays but at the same time be able to make the defense think about where to line up or adjust. Have a sophisticated passing game, just in case the running game isn't working or simply to keep them from putting 9 or 10 in the box. In may case the head coach doesn't hold this view, he holds to the more conservative approach. I can't tell him what to do and neither can coach Halls assistants tell him what to do.

 

I must admit that while I was at Honaker, coach Hubbard became very understanding and open to any suggestions and ideas that his assistants might have had. This is a head coach/assistant coach relationship that is needed to be successful in football. Hopefully, both the TV program and the Hurley program can overcome the obstacles and develop what is needed to be successful.

 

By the way this year I will be doing the defense and I am looking forward to the challenge. I feel that this was our weakest area last year. What side of the ball did you feel was the weakest at TV and if you will answer the same about Hurley.

 

out!

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

Unless I am mistaken, wasn't Jeremiah Lester (I think thats his name) your QB? If so, then I know for a fact that kid has been a QB for years in Little League and JV. First in Varsity possibly, but if we're talking about the same person, then definitely he has a lot of experience. If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

Honaker accepts volunteers to help the coaching staff, aka anybody who is willingto help is allowed to. Hurley did not allow any volunteers (trust me, a lot of us tried).

 

While the numbers advantage is there, it is also the fact that at Hurley there are probably another 5-10 kids who are capable of playing football who never even try out. Throw in the eligibility issue and the numbers point is moot. I see little difference in 200 than 350 other than the number of kids who warm the bench.

 

Regardless if Coach Hall wanted the ball pounded out or not, the simple fact is this: the team did not have an offense in place that allowed for throwing the ball consistently.

 

TV's weakest part: definitely the defense - Hurley's offense was so one-sided that I was shocked they did so well against TV. There was really a lack of cohesion on that unit. Tackling seemed to be weak as well.

 

Hurley's weakest part: Special Teams. Yeah, I know, its high school. And yeah, I know, the offense left a lot to be imagined and the defense was weak, but special teams was a major problem that typically goes unidentified. The return teams were horrible (one kid took the reps in practice; another returned punts and such in games). The punting was terribly inconsistent with the coverage being weak. Throw in the fact that there are 3 kids on the team with enough leg to boot field goals within the 20-30 yard line yet this scoring ability was rarely practiced and never emphasized, special teams was a huge, glaring weakness. With FG's, Hurley definitely beats Big Creek and possibly controls East Ridge enough to play closer.

 

-Josh

[bucfan64 309]

I see where you are coming from and understand what you are trying to say. But playing little league and throwing a few hail mary's with no technique coaching doesn't make one an experienced quaterback. Jeremiah and any other QB in SWVA is going to have trouble making proper reads from time to time especially with an offensive line whose play was absolutely horrible.

 

I agree in regards to the TV defense, it lacked cohesion and direction. The kids need to learn a system and stick to it, that is the plan this year. I will be taking the D, and hopefully the kids will be able to learn their techniques and their positions and we can stay in something and learn the details of the defense.

 

If you don't think numbers matters then you are highly confused. There is a HUGE difference from 200 to 350 students to select from, you usually end up with 12 to 14 more players and your 8th grade and j.v. team is allowed to play more games and get more practice time as a unit. This helps develop the players and the strength of the program. I have worked at schools with 1,300, 800, 400 and 200 students. NUMBERS makes a difference in turnout!

 

As far as assistants and volunteer assistants, TV will have 4 volunteer assistants this year and 5 paid coaches that should help some especially when we go to our individual groups. I don't understand why coach H doesn't want more help, but that is none of my business. If I were the head coach I would be very critical of who my assistants were, it is very hard this day and time to find loyal assistants who aren't trying to undermine a coach or stab him in the back. Perhaps this is Coach Halls thinking. I am in no way saying that you would do this I am just explaining some of the reasons for not accepting outside volunteer help.

 

As far as special teams I agree, very few teams put enough of an emphasis on special teams. When I coached at Marion High School, we spent the first half hour every day working on special teams fundamentals, needless to say the special teams helped us win a few close games, especially with those inside the 30 field goals.

 

Enough rambling.........