TTownTigers

Correction, late FG by the Bobcats with 3 seconds left in 1st half, Radford 10, Fort Chiswell 8

Halftime, Fort Chiswell 8, Radford 7.

Late second qtr, S. South 21, Gate City 14

Fort Chiswell 8, Radford 7, 2:47 left in first half

Radford 7, Fort Chiswell 0, mid second quarter. Fort Chiswell with ball 1st and 10 at the Radford 48.

My and my Buddy from Pennington Gap watched that Lee High game. Lee High outplayed Tabb and the officials. Lee High was jobbed in my opinion. They should have won that game, and competed against the officials and Tabb. This thread is fun and there are tons of variables and its hard to say who has been the best, since 1970, since 1950, etc? I still think much is to be said for playing up. The last 6 titles for PV as one poster mentioned, GC was 1-5. If Graham is single A, Graham gets 1 of those 6 titles as well, at least 1. No question, PV with a great run, but in my opinion, 6 titles would be no more than 4, and that's the point I am making for GC ahead of PV, not just because GC was playing up, but Graham was playing up, so PV avoided both schools come playoff time which without question, helped PV. There is no way in the world anyone can convince me that of all those state titles, if Graham and GC were playing where they should have been (at PVs class) PV today would have 2 less titles and that's being generous, maybe 3-4 more. Only my opinion. Is there anyway to tell? Nope. GC/Shoemakers Record Against Powell Valley was 26-17-1 with a .602 winning %. GC/Shoemakers Record Against Graham has been 20-15 and a much closer series here with only a .572 winning %. GC/Shoemakers Record Against Appalachia was 24-20-1, an even tighter series and a winning % of only .544. The numbers above are from Bluefield Researchers Thread and his numbers. The above is another supporting reason why I put GC first in this discussion and Appalachia 2nd. I still can't figure out how Appalachia got all those wins in its history, not just against GC, but just wins overalls and state titles with the enrollment numbers they have had. One could have made the argument that they should have been like Council or Whitewood and simply should have not had a football team with their numbers. It still blows me away how much talent they put on the field and how competitive they were. I have PV still third because of the volume of state titles, but again, if Gate City and Graham are playing in PVs classification since 1970 as they should have been, Powell Valleys state titles are cut by a third in my opinion. PV's accomplishments are still incredible, and one can easily make the case for them being the best program historically in SWVA. I would disagree, but definitely respect that opinion because it's certainly a valid one. Rings are rings and PV demolished its competition more times than not. One can certainly make the case for the Vikings and I respect that. There is just no way to tell, other than reaching the conclusion that PV, Appy, GC, Graham, and Giles have been very, very good for a long, long time. Of course, no more Appy and PV, it's Union's turn to carry the torch.

The part you are leaving out is the strength of schedule. Powell Valley competed at its normal classification level for the amount of students and Graham didn't. Graham was playing up for years, and many of those games playing the Giles, Blacksburg's, Salem's, GW Danville's. Powell Valley did not play the schedule and did not play the level of competition that Graham has faced over the years and even this year, neither does Union. Gate City again, has played at a higher level classification since 1970 and has crossed the border and played tough Tennessee schools and competed in a very good SW District years ago against the likes of Graham, Tazewell (very solid years ago), Richlands, Abingdon, etc. When P. Valley was playing Coeburn, Gate City was playing a Graham, then having to get ready for a Blacksburg or Southampton or Martinsville in the playoffs, and Graham faced the same level of competition while P. Valley was readying up for Luneburg Central and Madison County. Not the fault of P. Valley for playing at their level, but Gate City and Graham didn't. Especially Graham who played up. I recall working with several guys in the mines from Bluefield, VA, back years ago in the 1990's, and they told me Graham's coach at the time, Glynn Carlock had tried to play Powell Valley (Phil Robbins) for years and years, and he wouldn't play. I don't know if that's true, but that's what they told me. Finally, I repeat, if we count state titles back from 1950 to 1970 like we do today, Gate City may have 10. They would at least have 8. Additionally, if Gate City and Graham both would have played single A ball since 1970, Powell Valley would have nowhere close to the amount of state titles it has today. Gate City would regularly beat P. VAlley anyway even when P. Valley had some of the great teams, only for Gate City to lose to a much better opponent in the playoffs, for example, a Radford, etc. Finally, I continue to have to bring up Appalachia. They were dramatically smaller in numbers than P. Valley, GC, Graham, etc. They just should not have won as many titles, or have as many wins as they did. This is why I give them the 2 spot behind Gate City as SWVA's all time best program. Finally, the best team to ever come out of SWVA was GC 74, and the 70 team would be second. 5 starters went on to play Div 1 football and do well at Div 1 football, not just make the team. That's unheard of for any SWVA team in history, even in today's time.

In my non-objective and biased opinion, Gate City is the best historic program in SWVA history up and until 2017. I here what you folks are saying about Giles and Powell Valley and Appalachia and no question, Graham is definitely underestimated in these discussions. I don't include Richlands in the discussion. Richlands has 1 title in 92 and a great team it was, and then has been good since 2004ish. Other than this history, they were mediocre forever and decades mores. No offense Blues Fans, but it's true. Since 2003-4ish, it's been the Blues at number 1. Interesting Gate City Facts that supports my opinion, and disclaimer, I'm a fan and former player. 5 State Titles since 1970, BUT.....forget about these for a minute. Let me give some numbers that will surprise you before 1970. From 1956 to 1969 for Gate City High (14 seasons), there were 3 undefeated teams during this time for Gate City that were the best in Va. They simply were not AA and don't have a title to show for it. These teams were dominant for that era. Gate City had another 3 teams in those 14 seasons with only 1 loss, and the rest of those seasons, there were a few 2 loss only seasons. If we could measure titles like we do today or since 1970, Gate City High would have 8 titles, and maybe even 10. This is what makes Appalachia underrated. Appy has been very good (before combining with PV) for a long, long time, and I mean, back to the 1950's. PV/Big Stone had a great run of about 18 years, but they were not as dominant for as long. Even Shoemaker High (now GC High) was a powerhouse for years dating back well into the 1930's. Finally, look at the Gate City runner up finishes over the years. It's incredible. Win looking at total wins and winning percentage and playoff wins, and the rest, Gate City is the best High School Football Program in SWVA historically. This of course, is only my opinion. 1. Gate City 2. Appalachia (yes, over PV due to Appalachia's longevity of being competitive) 3. Powell Valley (ahead of Graham because of the volume of state titles) but they have not and were not as good or competitive for the length of time Graham has been) 4. Graham (yes, over Giles because of Graham's success and longevity of being competitive dating well into the 1940's and 1950's playing at a higher level of Classification than all of these schools). Has this program ever really been down? Think about it, year in and year out, a threat to win every game they play in regular season. A few downers after legendary Coach Glynn Carlock retired, but other than this, the program pretty much is never down, and even this year, a threat to win every game. Even during those few down years, 5-5 or 6-4 still, not many 3-7's in this programs history. They may lose to Giles or Richlands, but again, a surprise if Graham were to win this year? Of course not. It will be the same for them next year. Right in the thick of things. There is not question about it, if Graham were playing largely at the single A level over the years, it would have had far, far more than 3 titles in its history and those PV titles of the 1980's and 1990's would not be as large. Graham would have had a couple of those and Graham's enrollment numbers showed they should have been playing at that level, not at the level of increased classification it was playing, yet it was still winning and competing at the increased (outs of its enrollment) classification level. 5. Giles (rings matter and Giles has a bunch) Did you know that in 1996, Coach Harry Fry was flown down to Gainesville, Florida, before the Gators traveled to play in the national title game against FSU to give Steve Spurrier's Gators a "pep talk." Spurrier befriended Coach Fry early in his career and they remained friends. Coach Fry was so respected and admired not just in Gate City, but well reaching into Tennessee to include a friendly relationship with former Science Hill Star, Heisman Trophy Winner, and Elite College Football Coach Steve Spurrier. Folks, the Big Blue Machine was bada** It's been that way for a long time, so you can understand the temporary frustration of late with fans such as myself. It hurts.

Absolutely.

Richlands lost a ton from last year. They played for a state title and lost a game to a Union team that is the schools best since Appy/PV combined. They are fine defensively, but this is not a 10-0 or 9-1 team. It's a 6-4 team. Richlands has Dye and Johnson defensively which are studs, then a bunch of role players who will be good, but they just don't have the talent of years past. As for Greg Mance, he's been successful for 20 or so years. You don't become and stay successful for that long without making good decisions. Good decisions become habitual. Great coaches and leaders don't wake up one day and develop bad decision making habits. The defensive issues with Richlands is due to paragraph one above, and the same applies to their O, not as explosive. They aren't coaching issues. Richlands is still a 6-4 team. They play the toughest Class AA schedule in Va, with GC, Union, Bluefield, Graham, BBurg, and William Byrd, and Marion who is much improved. I still think they get to 6-4 somehow. The best team Richlands plays is not Bluefield, Graham, Union, or even Blacksburg, it may actually be William Byrd who lost only 2 games last year. The first to Salem by only 3 pts, and then to Salem again in the playoffs by 7 pts. Salem won the state title.

I don't think so. Some of those turnovers were due to desperation. Meaning, the defense forced us into some of those int's by stopping the run, etc. No question, the games would have been closer and much closer, but when you have the ball 3 and 13 at the opponents 49, and you throw a pick, then sure it's a little bad luck, but again, for a running team, 3 and 13 doesn't bid well and the D has forced us to throw in an uncomfortable situation and instead of us punting and giving the ball to the opponent at their 20 or 15, we give the ball to the opponent at near midfield. I know, most were unforced or "turnover" but some were true-take aways, and those take-aways were due to our offenses running game being stopped, thus forcing us to throw. Credit both opponents. I still believe that if we have no turnovers in either game, we still lose both games, yet much closer scores and both within a TD to 10 points.

More of an old-school guy when it comes to uni's favoring conservative, but this helmet is pretty dang cool man. I like it.

1. Giles 2. Union 3. Bluefield 4. Graham 5. Gate City OK folks, relax on GC, I'm just kidding. At 5, I got Richlands. Knocking on the door and a three way tie for 6th or "getting votes," is Marion, Abingdon, and Fort Chiswell.

I think we win close. Much of my thinking is wishful thinking, but I just can't find it within myself to pick against us unless the other team is by far better (Union and Richlands). GC wins 21-17.

That picture of one of the Russian Special Forces (Spetsnaz) unit known as "Alpha Group." They are the Navy Seals like equals in Russia. How do I know? History Channel my friend! Just did a special on special forces groups across the world and that picture was the one given on TV. In the unedited and original picture, they ain't holding keyboards. They are holding AK 47's.

George Wythe loses to Fort Chiswell 13-7? Wow.

Just back and no question, it just wasn't close. So much for 7-3 Gate City and a win over Abingdon. Man, I think my wishful thinking is clouding my judgement these days. We have a ways to go before we are good again. Congrats to Coach Reed and Abingdon. I am not one that believes you can be good for 50 + years due to only great talent, and then magically lose that talent in the last 4-5 years. Sure, there are ups and downs in talent from here to there season by season, but as a whole, over the long run, talent is somewhat similar which points out the obvious. The obvious was/is ...coaching matters. Harry Fry was a legend. Just simply the best. Colobro was very good. Coaching makes a huge difference at the High School level and it matters. When people say, "it's tough to replace a legend." What they are really saying is......."you had an excellent coach and the odds of getting two excellent coaches in a row are slim, and the odds are you will not get one as good as you just had, so your program is going to fall off some." Essentially, is that not what they are saying? Of course it is. You know what else, it's true usually. I am not saying Coach Akers is a bad coach either because there again, are ups and downs in talent and we certainly don't look that talented out there, but sooner or later, it will turn around if Coach Akers is a solid coach, but it just ain't happening this year. Maybe next year.

I got Richlands in a close game. It seems like the better team doesn't win this game. I am just not buying this stuff about the talent level being that different between the schools. Both schools have some serious talent and there isn't that much difference. Union has the experience at skilled positions, but the games are won up front, and Richlands this year, 2017 (regardless of the skilled players lost) is absolutely nasty up front. I think the Blues control games and manage to stay in a game like this one with Union because of the big ugly's up front. The lineplay of Richlands will give the young skilled position players time to improve and iron out those useful mistakes and Richlands is going to be truly badas* by regular season's end after playing that tough schedule. Mance is one heck of a coach and don't believe for a minute Richlands is undisciplined. They are simply young and raw at many positions, and Mance will turn the discipline, lack of attention, focus, and youthful mistake stuff around quickly. I have seen to many times over the years where Richlands supposedly loses a lot, and they turn around an run off a 9-1 or 8-2 type year again only to go deep into the playoffs. This year ain't no different. I watched what they did to our line and our line at GC is pretty dang good, and we simply couldn't do anything with em. They were in the backfield all game long. Offensively, by the late second, they were getting a 5 yard push off the ball with about every snap. Union's big's better be ready to battle. I got Richlands in a close, mild upset game at 24-20. With that prediction, I have to admit I have not seen Union this year.

I am a bit deflated. I was under the impression Abingdon was not supposed to be as good this year and thought we had a win here. I haven't seen Abingdon, but trust what you are saying. Time for me to crack open a fifth of Jack Daniels now. If we start out 0-2, well....oh well. Will Reed be willing to come back home? I'm sick and tired of this bullsh**. I'm sorry by the way, but I like Houseright. I don't care what some of you fans say, the guy could coach. He could flat out coach in my opinion and bye God, at least we could block and tackle and fire off the ball and smack the he&& out of people. I have not seen it since he left and I'm about tired of it.

I question if you were at Richlands my friend. I suspect you have been watching football long enough to know that the Richlands Offensive Line and Running Backs compared to Abingdon's OL and RB's are not in the same league. No offense to Abingdon as the Falcons have had some recent solid seasons, but there's a huge difference in tackling a Richlands RB that is bringing some crazy leg strength and a mammoth strong offensive lineman in front of him. Our tackling needs to be better, there is no question about it, but 35-6 Abingdon? Come on man. I understand you are frustrated and I am frustrated and mad as heck, but 35-6 Abingdon playing at our place? I truly don't think you mean that. I say we beat Abingdon. By the way, we are NOT going to pass the ball on teams and win. Richlands had 8 in the box and walked up 1 in the box several times begging us to throw. Our passing was more a product of catching them in pure-run defenses and not a product of our efficiency because we simply do not have the WR's do get open in space. They are good kids and work hard, but they are simply not going to blow by the defender and have 7 yards of separation. I also agree the wishbone is crap. Run the ball out of the spread formation or power eye, but the wishbone is a delay type of running game allowing the linebackers to tee off on our backs. We need quick hitting off tackle runs with a blocker in front that utilizes the strength and size of our backs. Our backs, even if in the right situation and a team fooled on the wishbone by the QB optioning the ball to one of our running backs around the end and having what looks like a lot of open space still equates to not huge yardage because our backs are not going to pull away from people with speed. I think the wishbone should be done and over with and as for QB, again, I don't care much who it is because I have seen all three this season and 2 of them at younger ages and they are good kids, but they just ain't throwing for 300 yards. We need Mac to play QB! I watched him years ago as a freshman play around in practice and throw the ball 50 yards on a rope, and that was as a 9th grader. I can't imagine what this kid could do in 12th grade. Oh well.

GMan- I have been married for 32 years and bye God, I wish he would come and still my "girlfriend"/wife/wench! Freedom!! Hey man, not to knock number 10 because this kid seems like a superstar. Down at Gate City, he looked to me to be the best athlete on the field and right there with Cooke. This kid has the athletic ability to play at the next level at WR/Slot/Flanker etc, and I think FBS type ability. He's gifted. But, he's not playing at the next level at QB, and as long as he's at the QB level in High School, he's just not going to be a passing threat for defenses, and it's going to hurt his chances for playing at the next level. I questioned why the Graham coach doesn't have the guy at WR. But hey, it's not my call. I am not paid the big bucks to coach and don't have the knowledge to do so, but....I can move some dang coal from point A to point B with the best of em.

I would like to see Vermillion get a shot. None of the three are going to drop back and throw for 300 yards in a game. Our offense is simply not there from the QB position to the WR position. It's obvious that a run oriented attack is our only option; therefore, I truly don't think it matters much who is our QB because the outcome is going to be close to the same. Like one poster said, we are probably better off with our best runner at QB with our offensive type, the weapons we have or don't have, and basing it on all 3 QB's ability to throw it.

Marion and maybe Fort Chiswell. Both are Div 2 though.

The worst thing for Graham is playing Tazewell this week. It will give a false sense of security when the QB takes the snap, drops back, gets rattled with the reads, then tucks and runs and unlike Bluefield, when he runs on Tazewell, nobody will be home and it's 6 points because the Tazewell defense will be that bad. Look for the Graham QB to have huge yards on called pass plays and to have a huge game in rushing giving the Graham faithful a false sense of security at QB. The problem for Graham is when they play a defense like Bluefield's, and Richlands and Giles will have a defense in the realm of Bluefields, and this is where the problems occur. The same thing will happen in round 2, and definitely by round 3 of the playoffs. Without a QB change at Graham, there is no way they get past round 3. They literally are no threat to throwing the football and you can not win like that in 2017. The 1980s are long gone, and I hate to say it, but ask Gate City fans. We have had to learn the hard way the past few years, but even with this year, our QB can get the ball 7 yards in the air to a receiver accurately. I have never really seen hardly anything like that at the High School level regarding the QB at Graham's inability to throw the ball what literally seems like is 7 yards. The sad part about that situation is that it's hurting the kid at QB more than the kid who is currently not at QB because the kid currently at QB seems like he may be a D1/FBS type player at flanker or WR, and he is not being played at his best position. The Graham coach should have made the change in the Gate City scrimmage, and definitely by the start of the Bluefield game, and if not that, by the 2nd half of the Bluefield game. <------you can see the pattern here which is why I questioned the decision making of the Graham coach after seeing them in the second half of the Bluefield game.

Agree. Marion is much, much improved and I would also move that one in the toss up category. But again, like Abingdon, Marion comes to Great City and that is worth 7-10 points for Gate City in my opinion, so for Marion or Abingdon to win, I think they need to be at least 7, maybe even 10 points better on a neutral field when playing in GC. The thing is, Abingdon may very well be 7 points better or even 10 better than GC on a neutral field and Marion may be 3 points better on a neutral field. You can see from my biased opinion above, lots of wishful thinking but that's what fans do. I just hope we get the W and think that the Richlands game suggested a very slight drop off from Richlands this year and improvement slightly on Gate City's part from last year. Richlands is likely to be fantastic by seasons end as they are very young and with their Coach, well....this guy works wonders with his players and they seem to get better by seasons end just like the overwhelming percentage of teams get better by season's end, but Richlands seems to improve much more by season's end than most other teams.