PGA Tour tournament at The Greenbrier...

[GMan 3,569]

Buy or sell???

 

Those guys made a joke of that course...SELL...

 

Very similar to what the Nationwide Tour players did to the Pete Dye Club in Bridgeport...that made one of WV's toughest courses look silly...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Big-time SELL.

 

It's not like Appleby was the only one putting up ridiculously low scores. The 59 is impressive, don't get me wrong, but look at these scores:

1. J.B. Holmes-60

2. D.A. Points-61

3. Jeff Overton-62

4. Chris Stroud-63

5. Matt Kuchar-63

6. Tim Gillis-63

 

Outside of Appleby and Kuchar, I have never heard of any of these people. The lowest score of anyone who finished the weekend was John Daly's E. That's just simply too easy for a PGA tour event. Like most every course in a 200-mile radius (though I would like to see them carve up Fincastle).

 

It was a cute experiment. But I hope that this is the LAST Greenbrier classic. For the sake of golf.

 

But congrats to de Jonge for a 3rd-place finish. I wonder if being relatively "local" helped him this weekend.

[GMan 3,569]

Like most every course in a 200-mile radius (though I would like to see them carve up Fincastle).

 

Brendon de Jonge, who finished 3rd at The Greenbrier, shot 60 in the Pocahontas Tournament at Fincastle while he was a student at VT...'nuff said...

[dlaw 11]

I thought they had a 6 year contract to put this tournament on.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I thought they had a 6 year contract to put this tournament on.

 

Probably so. If so, savvy move by the Greenbrier braintrust.

Hopefully, they'll make the course somewhat more difficult next year.

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

Buy. Buy. Buy.

 

The Greenbrier had an amazing turnout, and all parties involved loved it.

 

Second, the course played easier in the mornings and weekends because it was wet, anyone who had a hot putter could shoot low easily because the ball would stick at all time. Most could hit it close but could not convert putts, because the greens at the Old White are legitimately hard. There was standing water on the course all day Sunday, and fairways were waterlogged.

 

Third, when you are there, you love to watch offensive golf. I used to hate the John Deere Classic, which is 10X easier and has been around for years. (BTW, someone shot 13 under there, also a 59). I love seeing winning scores over par, on TV. Nothing is more exciting than watching someone stick it to just a couple of feet. There were roars everywhere all week, because it was exciting golf.

 

The Greenbrier Classic is here to stay. Sorry guys, but it is a huge boost to all parties involved and gave the wonderful people of this area a chance to see 4 amazing musical talents, and some of the greatest golf talents in the world for a really low price. BTW, UVAObserver, it is sad that you don't know who JB Holmes was, and where he got his namesake from. Obviously you do not watch golf. But just try google bud.

 

I think you ask anyone on this board who was there or volunteered that this event will be here for longer than 6 years. Sure make it a little harder, but you can see me there for the next 5 years from Wed-Sun every time.

Edited August 2, 2010 by StoneyCalhoun

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

Also, just from talking to the wives of players that walk the course, they loved it here. The Greenbrier provided plenty of things for them to do, and that included the concerts. John Daly's wife included and you know how much it must take to contain her lol.

 

Also talked to some guys from CBS who travel to every week to do coverage and they loved every bit of it, except the fact that sometimes roads were backed up, but that is expected if you ask me.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

The Greenbrier Classic is here to stay. Sorry guys, but it is a huge boost to all parties involved and gave the wonderful people of this area a chance to see 4 amazing musical talents, and some of the greatest golf talents in the world for a really low price. BTW, UVAObserver, it is sad that you don't know who JB Holmes was, and where he got his namesake from. Obviously you do not watch golf. But just try google bud.

 

J.B. Holmes's best finish in a major is T-14 (the British Open this year). He's only placed in about 7 majors, off the top of my head. 4 cuts, 1 WD, after checking his player profile. He got his card from 2005 Q-School. He has two PGA tour wins, both at the TPC Scottsdale. He was on the 2008 Ryder Cup team, which no one except diehard golf afficionados cares about. And that's about it. It's not like there aren't about 60+ active golfers with better profiles than Holmes (including Kuchar and Appleby, which I mentioned earlier). He's not even the best active golfer from the state of Kentucky. That's Kenny Peery.

 

Regardless, Holmes shouldn't be shooting 60 at ANY PGA Tour event.

 

For the future:

1. Google "Hyperbole".

2. Don't try to tell me what I know or don't know about a sport. Not a battle you want to fight.

Edited August 2, 2010 by UVAObserver

[GMan 3,569]

Holmes was able to go low because his length ate up that "short", by PGA stardards, golf course. Its easy for all PGA guys to score when they are hitting short irons (9-PW-SW) into every Par 4 and mid-irons into the Par 5s. With short rough and receptive greens, that course had no defense...everyone who played all four days shot a total of even par or better.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Holmes was able to go low because his length ate up that "short", by PGA stardards, golf course. Its easy for all PGA guys to score when they are hitting short irons (9-PW-SW) into every Par 4 and mid-irons into the Par 5s. With short rough and receptive greens, that course had no defense...everyone who played all four days shot a total of even par or better.

 

A pitch-and-putt, pure and simple.

And that golf course is barely 7000 yards. That might've been fine in 1990, but not now...

 

If this contract isn't bought out by the PGA and in fact does run the full 6 years, the Greenbrier Classic will be lumped in with the same slag as the John Deere. Trust me, baby.

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

J.B. Holmes's best finish in a major is T-14 (the British Open this year). He's only placed in about 7 majors, off the top of my head. 4 cuts, 1 WD, after checking his player profile. He got his card from 2005 Q-School. He has two PGA tour wins, both at the TPC Scottsdale. He was on the 2008 Ryder Cup team, which no one except diehard golf afficionados cares about. And that's about it. It's not like there aren't about 60+ active golfers with better profiles than Holmes (including Kuchar and Appleby, which I mentioned earlier). He's not even the best active golfer from the state of Kentucky. That's Kenny Peery.

 

Regardless, Holmes shouldn't be shooting 60 at ANY PGA Tour event.

 

For the future:

1. Google "Hyperbole".

2. Don't try to tell me what I know or don't know about a sport. Not a battle you want to fight.

 

 

Ryder Cup? Only die hards? LOL.

 

Seriously? I never watch golf, rarely play anymore after high school. Don't care for majors, but EVERY DAY my TV is on during the event. The third most watched event in the world (rydercup.com) is not something to scoff at. I don't know about you, but I enjoyed watching Holmes dominate the competition.

 

Glad you mentioned Kenny Perry (also glad you didn't know how he spelled his name). BTW, man he tore it up this weekend, posting a whopping 75 on the first day. Sure did miss him this weekend too. Just shows that the Greenbrier isn't a guaranteed under 70 round.

 

And everyone was knocking down pins all weekend, but thanks to shot link, and the great scoreboards at the Greenbrier, when I followed the final groups on Saturday and Sunday, there were holes with NO putts made over ten feet. Like I said, the greens are the tough part of the course, nothing else. Hot putter, slower greens from the rain, and you have low scores. For perfect example, on the driest days, such as Thursday, all low scores were shot before the course hardened up:

 

Pat Perez - 64

Erik Compton - 63

Jeff Overton - 64

George McNeil - 63

Brenden de Jeong - 65

Charles Howell III - 65

Aron Price - 65

 

That's 7 of the top 8, all teeing off in the early group before 9. Point Proven.

 

And FYI, Holmes went off early as well on Saturday, and got even luckier as the rains came and widened the course (balls can't roll through the fairway) and slowed the greens down.

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

A pitch-and-putt, pure and simple.

And that golf course is barely 7000 yards. That might've been fine in 1990, but not now...

 

If this contract isn't bought out by the PGA and in fact does run the full 6 years, the Greenbrier Classic will be lumped in with the same slag as the John Deere. Trust me, baby.

 

It also only had 2 par 5s and only allowed 21 eagles all week on them. 7000 yards, yes, is short, but not as short as you think.

Move some bunkers around, lengthen the rough and narrow the fairways and you will see higher scores without a doubt.

 

The rain stays away and they will go up as shown by the earlier post.

 

But honestly, like in the first post I wrote, who does not want to see the players score low???

 

I was in the same boat as you all. I loved Pinehurst, and hated when they watered a green down. Love to see the pros struggle. But not when you are there in person. Watching your favorite player stick it close and make a run is amazing. You cheer for birdies and love the fist pumps. There are no fist pumps for bogeys. There is nothing wrong with it being easy. You cheer for birdies as you know the leader won't be moving back down, your player has to attack.

 

And honestly, who cares as long as it stays here. I don't care if people scoff at our tournament in our little state. Pros will come because of the crowds and the great hospitality (and casinos) at the Greenbrier. Fried Green Tomato sandwiches will still be just $1.75 with a glass of Peach Tea for $1.25.

 

Anyone who was there will tell you it was a great event, no matter what the scoring was. And many more will tell you they can not wait for next year.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

It also only had 2 par 5s and only allowed 21 eagles all week on them. 7000 yards, yes, is short, but not as short as you think.

Move some bunkers around, lengthen the rough and narrow the fairways and you will see higher scores without a doubt.

 

The rain stays away and they will go up as shown by the earlier post.

 

But honestly, like in the first post I wrote, who does not want to see the players score low???

 

I was in the same boat as you all. I loved Pinehurst, and hated when they watered a green down. Love to see the pros struggle. But not when you are there in person. Watching your favorite player stick it close and make a run is amazing. You cheer for birdies and love the fist pumps. There are no fist pumps for bogeys. There is nothing wrong with it being easy. You cheer for birdies as you know the leader won't be moving back down, your player has to attack.

 

And honestly, who cares as long as it stays here. I don't care if people scoff at our tournament in our little state. Pros will come because of the crowds and the great hospitality (and casinos) at the Greenbrier. Fried Green Tomato sandwiches will still be just $1.75 with a glass of Peach Tea for $1.25.

 

Anyone who was there will tell you it was a great event, no matter what the scoring was. And many more will tell you they can not wait for next year.

 

7000 yards is very much on the low end for modern golf courses (pro tees, of course). For example:

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/r/04/21/toughestcourses2008/index.html

About 1 in 6 contain fewer yards than Old White. And it scored like it.

 

I'm not saying that it wasn't a great event for the state of West Virginia. The Greenbrier braintrust went all-out this weekend to ensure that any national exposure would be positive, and it was, by and large. A hearty congrats to the Greenbrier staff.

 

I have two points of view on this. First, as you said (and I agree), I hope that the event can stay there. It was a big draw, bigger than I could have even imagined it would be; it could be a HUGE revenue boost for many years to come. If you've read anything I've written online, you know how much I want industry and revenue to come into the area. That's my civic point of view. Second, I've been speaking about the Greenbrier Classic thus far from a sports' fan's point of view. Low scores mean little if the course is ridiculously easy, as this was. In terms of scores, it's like thinking that a HR hit in the old Polo Grounds (279' down the line) is the same as bombing one out of the center of Coors Field (415'). Sure, the scores are objectively the same, but subjectively to me and many others, it means less. And it devalues the event for many sports fans.

 

I think the two points of views aren't incompatible: keep the event, but only if you can make that course produce a better product than what we saw this week. Make the course tougher, and you won't have to worry about renewing that contract in 6 years. It'll practically renew itself.

[hokie07 11]

A few of my own points about the Classic...

 

1.) Jim Justice did an excellent job with the entire Classic from start to finish. He accomodated the fans, the players, and the media as best as he could. Every employee, volunteer or paid, treated the fans with as much respect as they showed the players and that made for an extremely enjoyable environment. I knew several people who were "big" throughout the week in the sense of VIP passes, suites at the Greenbrier, free drinks, dinner with professionals, etc. and they said that the golfers were just as impressed with the facilities as I was. Several also said that this was easily one of their favorite stops on the this season's tour thus far, which is good for the future. Golfers share their experiences with other players on the tour and, more often than not, it shows several years down the road when the field gets a bit more competitive.

 

2.) Yes, the course played extremely easy because of its length and the softness of the greens. It's been touched upon already, but I'd too like to see the fairways narrowed, the greens rolled much more and dried out, in addition to much longer rough. Simple things such as those can completely transform a golf course and make it play several strokes harder.

 

3.) This tournament wasn't created to compete with the Masters, US Open, or even any TPC events. It replaced an overrated Buick Invitational featuring Tiger beating up many of the weaker players on the tour. If Buick wasn't one of Tiger's main sponsors, then he would have been nowhere to be found. Subtract Tiger from that field and then have a tournament comparable to this year's Greenbrier Classic.

 

Aside from Tiger and Phil not showing up, there were still some of the world's best golfers who made the trip. Jim Furyk, Brandt Snedeker, Boo Weekley, Kenny Perry, Davis Love III, Sergio Garcia, etc. I follow golf much more than the casual fan so I was impressed with the overall field for a first year tournament. Had two other tournaments not been held this weekend, there might have been a few more "headliners" who made the trip. The Irish Open attracted the likes of Luke Donald and the European players, while the Senior US Open slotted The Greenbrier's Pro Emeritus, Tom Watson.

 

All in all, I had a great time and can't wait to go back next year. It was well worth the price of admission.