parsons 178 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=PR&date=20121030&id=15734058 "CONSOL Energy attributed the idling of its Miller Creek operations to a sequence of permit delays that has prevented the company from securing all of the necessary environmental permits required to continue mining as identified in the company's mine plan." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Should have placed this one under political discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 CONSOL drug it's butt and is now paying the consequences for it. That simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 CONSOL drug it's butt and is now paying the consequences for it. That simple. Perhaps with a little more age you will restrain yourself from making definitive statements about topics in which you are ignorant/uninformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Perhaps with a little more age you will restrain yourself from making definitive statements about topics in which you are ignorant/uninformed. I hope your mouth is wide enough to ingest a generous helping of foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I hope your mouth is wide enough to ingest a generous helping of foot. I don't post unless the topic is extremely subjective or I have direct knowledge. I can't say the same for you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you know 1/4 as much about this particular issue as you THINK you know, you'd prove to be a worthy debate partner. In fact, I can tell that you're grasping. If you wanted to have a legitimate discussion, you would've done more than make a sophomoric retort when presented with a one-sentence explanation of why CONSOL didn't uphold its end of the bargain. You posted it with an agenda in mind, and what I know and have to say doesn't align with it. Deal with it. And since you clearly haven't an inkling of that which you're discussing, let someone who has knowledge of this particular situation help you along the trail. CONSOL knew it needed the permits about 5 years ago, which was satisfactory notice for those particular permits. If a corporation focused on nothing but these permits, it would take about 18-24 months to complete them under the best of circumstances. Needless to say, CONSOL failed to delegate the proper time and attention to the permits, for reasons that I choose not to disclose. That's not an "Obama" or "EPA" issue. Sorry, but where I come from, that's called "dragging ass". And it's really that simple. As devious and insincere as CONSOL is in many of its business practices, to its credit, CONSOL does place a premium on worker safety and business permits. It dropped the ball here, and it cost 100+ people their jobs, hopefully just temporarily. Perhaps, Parsons, with a little age... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan4VT 4,557 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you know 1/4 as much about this particular issue as you THINK you know, you'd prove to be a worthy debate partner. In fact, I can tell that you're grasping. If you wanted to have a legitimate discussion, you would've done more than make a sophomoric retort when presented with a one-sentence explanation of why CONSOL didn't uphold its end of the bargain. You posted it with an agenda in mind, and what I know and have to say doesn't align with it. Deal with it. And since you clearly haven't an inkling of that which you're discussing, let someone who has knowledge of this particular situation help you along the trail. CONSOL knew it needed the permits about 5 years ago, which was satisfactory notice for those particular permits. If a corporation focused on nothing but these permits, it would take about 18-24 months to complete them under the best of circumstances. Needless to say, CONSOL failed to delegate the proper time and attention to the permits, for reasons that I choose not to disclose. That's not an "Obama" or "EPA" issue. Sorry, but where I come from, that's called "dragging ass". And it's really that simple. As devious and insincere as CONSOL is in many of its business practices, to its credit, CONSOL does place a premium on worker safety and business permits. It dropped the ball here, and it cost 100+ people their jobs, hopefully just temporarily. Perhaps, Parsons, with a little age... Pipebomb.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you know 1/4 as much about this particular issue as you THINK you know, you'd prove to be a worthy debate partner. In fact, I can tell that you're grasping. If you wanted to have a legitimate discussion, you would've done more than make a sophomoric retort when presented with a one-sentence explanation of why CONSOL didn't uphold its end of the bargain. You posted it with an agenda in mind, and what I know and have to say doesn't align with it. Deal with it. Perhaps, Parsons, with a little age... I responded to your pm with one of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHS03 99 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Don't debate it through PM's. Debate it in the thread or it's useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Don't debate it through PM's. Debate it in the thread or it's useless. Well, since the cat's out of the bag, I said two things in a PM that I haven't said in as many words here. First, that I have been employed on both sides of the fence: on the associated-with-CONSOL side and the public side. It's quite eye-opening to see it through both lenses. To put it mildly, I'm not just taking a leak into the wind on this issue. I've seen it before. CONSOL didn't get their 402 done in time, and their 404 wasn't satisfactory, along with other permits that were minimally sufficient but hastily assembled. It's not for a lack of notice. It's not Obama or the EPA; the regulations are from Bill Clinton's era. I don't know what else in the world to say on the issue. It's that simple. I don't need a thesis to explain it. Second, that I wanted to keep it to a PM to avoid going over the top to prove my point. I wanted to keep some kind of peace. Contrary to popular perception, I don't get enjoyment from blasting people when they're wrong. I like to agree with people. I like to support people who make good arguments. I even like for someone to say "I disagree, and here's why", to which I may make a counterpoint or simply agree to disagree. But if you go out of your way to antagonize, that's when I'll lay down the hammer. What makes me facepalm is when I respond to a post in frank and certain terms, and then the OP turns around and acts condescending about my remark (first, implying that I have a lack of experience when I certainly do not; second, implying that my youth makes me more ignorant and prone to uncouth behavior, which is as false as anything I've ever read). It's not like the OP gave an impassioned defense of CONSOL in the opening post, to which I may have deserved some sort of terse response for a brief remark. He posted a link and a quote. It's frankly bizarre, as if I offended some latent pro-CONSOL agenda the OP had before he even made the post. As I said before, he'll have to deal with the fact that I, for one, will not stand aside and bemoan a company's failure to secure required permits with YEARS' notice. Thus, I reached out to him (reread those last five words, everyone) to explain the situation, or else I'd have no qualms about dropping the hammer publicly. As it appears, that failed, as the PMs were referenced. Hence, here I am, laying everything bare to the bone. I feel awfully for the 100+ miners and their families negatively impacted by this. However, you can't blame this one on Obama or the EPA. This falls squarely on CONSOL. Period. CONSOL failed their duties, and that in turn fails 100+ families. No spin required. I've said my piece. Edited October 31, 2012 by UVAObserver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 war on coal...bigod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) war on coal...bigod. The "War on Coal" from the federal government is very real. The major coal companies are making it very hard to be sympathetic to them, though. I very much wish it weren't the case. The coal companies don't realize what sort of ally they have in the localities, counties, and state governments of VA, WV, and PA (all typically more conservative than not). You have entities that will fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court for YOU, AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, to save your behind. What do the major coal companies do in return? Hurt their cause by things like forgetting to keep up with permits (among many, many others). It's like having a delinquent teenager. While you're in the principal's office advocating for your son to get out of suspension, he's in the parking lot keying your car. Edited October 31, 2012 by UVAObserver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 The "War on Coal" from the federal government is very real. The major coal companies are making it very hard to be sympathetic to them, though. I very much wish it weren't the case. The coal companies don't realize what sort of ally they have in the localities, counties, and state governments of VA, WV, and PA (all typically more conservative than not). You have entities that will fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court for YOU, AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE, to save your behind. What do the major coal companies do in return? Hurt their cause by things like forgetting to keep up with permits (among many, many others). It's like having a delinquent teenager. While you're in the principal's office advocating for your son to get out of suspension, he's in the parking lot keying your car. I was talking to Lloyd the other day and he was trying to find a Snickers bar in the Breaks gift shop, but there were only Hershey bars to be found. I told him Obama had bailed out Hershey and gotten rid of all the Snickers bars...war on candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 war on candy. Halloween disapproves of this message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I said two things in a PM that I haven't said in as many words here. First, that I have been employed on both sides of the fence: on the associated-with-CONSOL side and the public side. It's quite eye-opening to see it through both lenses. To put it mildly, I'm not just taking a leak into the wind on this issue. I've seen it before. CONSOL didn't get their 402 done in time, and their 404 wasn't satisfactory, along with other permits that were minimally sufficient but hastily assembled. It's not for a lack of notice. It's not Obama or the EPA; the regulations are from Bill Clinton's era. I don't know what else in the world to say on the issue. It's that simple. I don't need a thesis to explain it. The permit applications were submitted over four years ago. The state of West Virginia has already approved the permits. The EPA has decided to make new surface mine permits impossible to obtain and simply refuses to move on them despite the protests of West Virginia politicians on both sides of the aisle. http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/262066/Consol-plans-W-Va--layoffs-over-permit-impasse-.html?isap=1&nav=5045 From the Associated Press...... Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin and fellow Democrats in West Virginia's congressional delegation blasted the EPA over Tuesday's layoff notice. "I am incensed and infuriated that the EPA would intentionally delay the needed permit for a public-private project that would bring so many good jobs and valuable infrastructure to communities that so desperately need them," said U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin, who helped launch the project while Tomblin's predecessor as governor. "The EPA has lost court case after court case for its overreach, and it should be using better judgment by now." Edited November 1, 2012 by parsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I feel awfully for the 100+ miners and their families negatively impacted by this. However, you can't blame this one on Obama or the EPA. This falls squarely on CONSOL. Period. CONSOL failed their duties, and that in turn fails 100+ families. No spin required. I've said my piece. You're extremely naive if you believe that this is merely a procedural matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well, since the cat's out of the bag, I said two things in a PM that I haven't said in as many words here. You refused to answer my pm which is why I mentioned that I had sent you one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcotton 40 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Dont make me pull this car over now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHS03 99 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 The permit applications were submitted over four years ago. The state of West Virginia has already approved the permits. The EPA has decided to make new surface mine permits impossible to obtain and simply refuses to move on them despite the protests of West Virginia politicians on both side of the aisle. http://www.journal-news.net/page/content.detail/id/262066/Consol-plans-W-Va--layoffs-over-permit-impasse-.html?isap=1&nav=5045 From the Associated Press...... Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin and fellow Democrats in West Virginia's congressional delegation blasted the EPA over Tuesday's layoff notice. "I am incensed and infuriated that the EPA would intentionally delay the needed permit for a public-private project that would bring so many good jobs and valuable infrastructure to communities that so desperately need them," said U.S. Sen. Joe Manchin, who helped launch the project while Tomblin's predecessor as governor. "The EPA has lost court case after court case for its overreach, and it should be using better judgment by now." That's pretty legit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 That's pretty legit! If it were accurate, it would be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsons 178 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) If it were accurate, it would be... Time after time you imply that you have special insight on topics on this board. You remind me of one of those guys going around claiming to be a former navy seal. Edited November 1, 2012 by parsons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 This seems oddly appropriate: Nothing more's going to be accomplished by this thread. As for me, I cannot unsee what I have seen, and I cannot unhear what I have heard. I know in my mind and my heart what's the case. People can choose who they want to believe on the issue. If they believe my take is more accurate, they can rest assured that I have made my decisions based upon (1) firsthand experience, (2) a goal of impartiality free from any preconceived biases, and (3) common sense. If they choose to believe Parsons, that's fine, too. I'm tired of living that Family Guy scene. Parsons may very well feel the exact same way. As I said yesterday, the issue is simple, and the cause simpler. There's nothing more substantively to add. It's for you guys and gals to determine which is more accurate. With that, there's truly nothing more worthy of posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluefieldRocks 14 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Very informative thread. Thanks to all the parties involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend11 32 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 This seems oddly appropriate: Nicely played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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