hoard 18 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 I also posted this on Virginia Preps. Anyone have any thoughts on this idea? Refer to the thread about Loudoun Valley and Stone Bridge on Virginia Preps for more details, but this setup offers a solution to the problem Lee High faces. As background for those who don't know, Lee is a Group AA school that plays in the Highlands District in Region IV, but has requested to play down in the Group A, Lonesome Pine District due to geographic location. The five-team Southwest and four-team Highlands had planned to merge a couple of years ago but Lee threatened to sue over the move because of travel, notably to such places as Carroll County, Graham and Grundy. The idea for NOVA could actually work for Lee; here's how: 1) Merge the Southwest and Highlands districts as originally planned (just call it the Southwest, as it used to be before it split in 1986). This would eliminate the four-team Highlands and prevent a lot of .500 and below teams from making the playoffs in all sports. 2) Have Lee play as a full member in the Southwest in FOOTBALL ONLY but be in the Lonesome Pine in all other sports for the REGULAR SEASON. This eliminates the "combination district" setup which often hurts teams in the football power ratings. 3) Beginning in post-season tournaments in all sports but football, Lee would participate in the Southwest District; however the only way they could advance to the Region IV playoffs is by winning the SWD tournament. Lee would not be allowed to knock out the SWD regular season champion from an automatic berth in Region IV simply because it won the LPD. There would, of course, need to be some sort of method devised to determine where Lee would be seeded in the SWD tournament. This isn't ideal, of course, but it does solve the travel problem, at least as far as the regular season is concerned. Lee would still be playing the same teams plus the current SWD schools in football, but the travel is not as much of a factor since the games are played once a week on weekends. Some would say this is "unfair" to Lee in that it couldn't automatically advance to regionals based on a regular season LPD championship, but it's better than them having to stay in the Highlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Lee would never go for something like that...they can't compete in the Highlands,much less a combined highlands/SWD...and they have no...and I mean ZERO inclination to travel to Grundy for anything. The best thing would be for the VHSL to stand up to Lee and merge the the two districts and send lee to the LPD or whatever andjust let them have their way and play down...they can't compete in the LPD anyway...none of the LPD teams would complain. There is no reason Va High, Marion, and Abingdon can't play in the SWD....I'd like to personally trade Va High for Lebanon and let Va high go to the Hogo...that would just be a perfect world for everyone involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoard 18 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Actually, I think Lee might go for this proposal. They want to play in the LPD anyway and would be doing so in all sports but football. Their travel concerns are based more around the other sports which have weeknight games. By being in combined SWD in only football, they would have to travel to Grundy or Carroll County once every two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverHokie 35 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 I just have to say...after reading this, it is clear to me why I like the West Virginia arrangement. No districts, no regions...you schedule who you can, try to play the best teams, and let your record and ranking determine whether or not you make the playoffs. This is not a slam, but to someone not intimately familiar with the whole Virginia setup, it seems needlessly complicated and apparently outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhstigerfan 12 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 WV's system works well for them because WV is a relatively small state with few schools and smaller schools. The division system in VA is neccessary because of the number in schools and the desparity in the sizes. The average size of a division 2 school in VA for example is nearly 500, and most of the D1 schools have around 200, 300, or even 100 students. The divisions can hopefully be eliminated in 2007 when we go to 4 classes because the schools in each Group will be closer in size. As for Lee, they should just let them play an independent schedule in football and vie for a wildcard spot and automatic 4th seed in regional playoffs, and play in the LPD in the regular season in everything else. If Lee wins the regular season in the LPD, let them play in the Highlands(or SWD if the two districts merge) tournament in the post season as the automatic lowest seed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89bluedevil 10 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 That sounds like the most common sense solution yet. Put Lee in the LPD, it will help the travel problem and I don't see them dominating. Merging the Highlands and SWD would probably clear up some of the playoff questions also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 only problem is the vhsl doesn't want to let Lee play down...and I know va high doesn't want to go to the SWD...so they would have to go to the hogo (they could replace Lebanon) and I don't think Lebanon wants to go back to AA...so there are several things keeping it from happening...plus it makes to much sense and that dooms any good idea. My Plan: SWD: (7 Teams) (AA) Grundy Graham Tazewell Richlands Lebanon Abingdon Marion Highlands: disolved Piedmont: (7 teams) (AA) Bassett Dan River Magna Vista Tunstall Patrick County Martinsville Carroll County Hogo: (A) (8 Teams) Va High George Wythe (Wytheville) Holston John Battle Northwood Patrick Henry (GS) Rural Retreat Chillhowie LPD: (A) (9 teams) Lee Gate City Powell Valley Clintwood Coeburn Appalachia J.I. Butron JJ Kelly Pound - If you really think 9 teams is to much, you could move Clintwood over to the BDD...giving them 5 teams and the travel time is not that far to it's worst place being Hurley. Haysi and Honaker would be closer fit for Clintwood anyway and Twin Valley is easy enough to get to from anywhere sitting between Richlands and Grundy right off of HWY 460. So what now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89bluedevil 10 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Looks good to me. I think having more teams in a district could keep some teams with losing records out of the playoffs. Geographically it makes sense and the enrollments for each school seem close. Just makes too much sense. By the way, I've lived in Southwest Virginia all my life and this is the first year I've heard of Twin Valley- how old is that school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Garden High and Whitewood High had a baby...and they named it Twin Valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoard 18 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Lee High wouldn't be playing down, at least in the usual sense, because they would still be competing for a Group AA title in all sports. Given the fact that the Loudoun Valley proposal will probably pass, I really don't see how the VHSL couldn't let Lee do the same thing. The VHSL just doesn't want Lee competing for a Group A title. I agree that Virginia High belongs in the Hogo, however they already tried to go and Region C didn't want to add another school. Whether or not Virginia High is in the SWD/Highlands doesn't really affect this plan anyway. In fact, if VHS drops, it makes merging the two districts a necessity. Plus, I see no reason why Lebanon would go back to AA short of a significant enrollment increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 I agree on all that...but if you flip flop Lee like that and they make the playoffs as a result, people will scream like no tomorrow and rightfully so. The other problem is the Region IV playoff picture would shape up a lot under my plan not just on the A level but AA level...for instance this year, Lebanon would have taken a spot in Div 3 and been the #2 seed more than likely. That would help out with some of the 9-1 teams that sit home while 4-6 teams make it in AA. It would also help with scheduling....with 7-9 teams in a district...teams can't dodge other teams...and that leaves only 2-4 games to fill for each school...as it stands right now Grundy is trying to fill 5 or 6 games for example. If you look at my plan, it is mostly balanced and it puts most travel times within a 1:30 min drive for all of the teams...it moves Lebanon out and va high in to the hogo so they are not adding a team or losing a team. It also does away with a weak Highlands and declares Lee to a very competetive district with schools "close" to the same enrollment. If Grundy last year at 300 kids can play Carroll County at over 1100 kids then any of those teams can play Lee. The VHSL just needs the power to quit feeding some of these schools from the tit and make a decision that would fix the biggest problem area in the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoard 18 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Why would people scream if Lee made the playoffs under this plan? In football, they would be a full SWD member and therefore have to play the same district schedule as everyone else. For the other sports, yes they would play an LPD regular season schedule, but would have to play in the SWD tournament to qualify for the Region IV playoffs. In other words, they would have to qualify by winning the tournament (or finish second to the regular season champ) just like everyone else. How they finish in the LPD basically wouldn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 dude...Lee has no business in the SWD...get out of here with that crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhstigerfan 12 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Lebanon will be AA soon enough. Lebanon has been a regular boom town the past couple years. There's more and more people moving in over there all the time. Overcrowding at Lebanon Elementary has gotten so bad that the Russell Co. school board is buying an old building to convert into an elementary school. I think Leb elem had to add a 7th or 8th kindergarten class this year alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Switch Lebanon and Lee out to AA and A, respectively. Consolidate the Southwest and Highlands Districts. There we go! Although, my A-AAAAA system would absolve this altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamerball 566 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Even though this may be one of the best ideas I've heard for Lee to do, I still don't like it. In my opinion, that whole AAAA thing sounded really good to me. Move Abingdon and Marion to the Southwest, let VA High figure out what they want to do, and move teams like Gate City, Lebanon, and Powell Valley back into the Highlands, and whoever else they could move up. I'd say Va High should stay to make it a 5 team district in that case and maybe even bring Grayson County and some other team in. The BBD could just be done away with by moving Honaker into the LPD and the others into the Cumberland. Yeah, I know this has been said before but I still think it makes sense. By the way, Lance, what did you mean by Lee couldnt compete in the southwest district and has no reason to travel to Grundy for ANYTHING. I hope you mean football, because then you would be right. But if you mean all sports, then you better think again. Just remember last year, I belive Lee played Grundy in girls basketball, and who won, Lee thats who. For the past, i think, five years Lee girls basketball has made it to Region and went to state twice. Lets not forget this year's volleyball team, which I congratulate by the way. They made it to State, and were Region IV champs, had the Region IV player of the year, who made first team All-state and finished second in kills in the state to the Player of the Year in AA. Wait, I'm not done yet, you got me going. The softball team has been very good lately, the boys basketball team has been DECENT, and track USUAlLY does really good. I think I'll stop there, but you get the point. Sorry for going on like that, your statement just got me fired up there, and I felt like saying all this. IF you just meant football then forget everythging I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMan 10 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Even though this may be one of the best ideas I've heard for Lee to do, I still don't like it. In my opinion, that whole AAAA thing sounded really good to me. Move Abingdon and Marion to the Southwest, let VA High figure out what they want to do, and move teams like Gate City, Lebanon, and Powell Valley back into the Highlands, and whoever else they could move up. I'd say Va High should stay to make it a 5 team district in that case and maybe even bring Grayson County and some other team in. The BBD could just be done away with by moving Honaker into the LPD and the others into the Cumberland. Yeah, I know this has been said before but I still think it makes sense. By the way, Lance, what did you mean by Lee couldnt compete in the southwest district and has no reason to travel to Grundy for ANYTHING. I hope you mean football, because then you would be right. But if you mean all sports, then you better think again. Just remember last year, I belive Lee played Grundy in girls basketball, and who won, Lee thats who. For the past, i think, five years Lee girls basketball has made it to Region and went to state twice. Lets not forget this year's volleyball team, which I congratulate by the way. They made it to State, and were Region IV champs, had the Region IV player of the year, who made first team All-state and finished second in kills in the state to the Player of the Year in AA. Wait, I'm not done yet, you got me going. The softball team has been very good lately, the boys basketball team has been DECENT, and track USUAlLY does really good. I think I'll stop there, but you get the point. Sorry for going on like that, your statement just got me fired up there, and I felt like saying all this. IF you just meant football then forget everythging I said. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Lee would never go for something like that...they can't compete in the Highlands,much less a combined highlands/SWD...and they have no...and I mean ZERO inclination to travel to Grundy for anything. [/ QUOTE ] I am talking about football in particular...but in all sports overall, I don't think Lee wants to TRAVEL to Grundy for anything if they can find a district that is a better fit travel wise. After all, travel time is the whole reason they are asking to play down.....right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoard 18 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 The 4A idea is good conceptually, but when you apply it to the whole state it creates more problems than it solves. You end up with too many spread-out districts which means more travel, which is why I don't think it will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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