On 11/15/2023 at 10:05 AM, S10SQUAREBODY4LIFE said:
I don't think Pennington had any runner-up finishes other than 76. They lost a couple of Semi's in the 80s but I don't think they made the state game.
With Bluefield Researcher's help, I got it to come up. In 84, the Bobcats lost to Covington in the semis, and later on in the 80s lost to Drewry Mason & Lexington.
I don't think Pennington had any runner-up finishes other than 76. They lost a couple of Semi's in the 80s but I don't think they made the state game.
I tried to look on 4 Seasons Football, but the spreadsheet with the results isn't showing up for me. I want to say it was in 84. Maybe it was in the semifinals.
Pressure doesn't necessarily imply "courtroom" nor did I ever imply anything within the legal system. If this issue were to gain enough traction, there are any number of ways something can take off resulting in pressure for VHSL. Weird things go viral on social media every day and become national stories. Those stories end up leading on the Nightly News and Sportscenter. That type of attention would be enough, I believe, to force VHSL to reevaluate the current playoff system.
But as I stated earlier, not enough people care about this to make it go viral. Therefore, it's highly unlikely anything changes and we'll be having this same conversation next year.
There's not enough care in the world to make the VH$L (or other associations) cut that much money out of their yearly budget. Take the T$$AA a few years ago when a cash strapped, bad, player depleted Unaka team refused to make the 3+ hour bus to undefeated Greenback for a first round blowout. Was the T$$AA sympathetic? No, they punished Unaka for it. They simply don't care about anything other than getting their money that the opening round generates.
With enough pressure, I think they might. But it would require an exorbitant amount of pressure. I just don't think enough people care so, it's highly unlikely anything changes.
Pressure from who? As you said, very few people care about this issue and the ones that do, what would they do? Sue the VH$L? I'm no lawyer, but I can't see that going anywhere in a courtroom.
Appalachia and jonesville won state in the 80s at 5-5
Yep, and Garden finished 6-4 and made the finals where they lost a tight game to Lunnenburg. One year in the 80s, PV lost something like two of their first three by something like less than 5 points combined, finished 8-2 and thumped state runner up Pennington Gap 35-14, but missed the playoffs.
Here is an excerpt from the article. Everyone knows VH$L playoff system is "questionable" at best. But will VH$L change the system? I think they might with enough pressure from articles like this.
Why did this travesty happen?
A questionable high school football playoff system in Virginia created this unfortunate matchup. Phoebus entered the game 10-0 with seven shutouts. Jamestown entered the game 1-9, with seven of those losses’ shutouts. “No disrespect to Coach (Lambin) and his team, but it wasn’t a matchup that we were excited about,’’ Blunt said. The game got out of hand almost as soon as it started. Jamestown committed turnovers on the first play of each of its first three possession, and Phoebus led 20-0 just 48 seconds into the game.
Jamestown trailed 56-0 at the end of the first quarter. “Those poor kids shouldn’t have been in that game,’’ said Blunt, adding that he pulled out most of his starters early in the first quarter. The schools’ athletic directors discussed ending the game at halftime, according to Blunt, who said Jamestown chose to play on even after trailing 84-0 at halftime. Lambin, a former Marine, suggests he draws on his military background in coaching a team that went 0-10 last season. “The biggest takeaway from last night is we didn’t quit,’’ he wrote.
I've seen this discussion play out every year on message boards from various states after some ridiculous 1st round blowouts. That extra round provides the VH$L (and other associations) with a nice chunk of change for their operating budget, and they are not going to give that up under any circumstances.
While there’s no trophy for getting in, having a first round bracket including teams who don’t have excellent (or at least very good) records lessens the accomplishment for those who do. I’ve seen and remember in the past 8 and 9 win teams failing to get in. Thing is, before those seasons ever started, every team in the region knew how high the bar to get in was…and that turned several games per year into must win games. IMO it gave the season more meaning and gave the playoffs a lot more meaning. I’m not saying it has to go back to that, but I wouldn’t mind it, either. The way it sits right now (especially in 2D where there are only 2 districts) 4 is plenty, 6 is a tad much, and 8 is just making teams who deserve to be there beat several who don’t. I think everyone understands the VHSL gets an extra round of ticket sales, but that’s just part of the problem.
The extra round of ticket sales is...well..why we have the extra round, and that's 100% the responsibility of the VH$L (and other organizations in different states). How much are playoff tickets in VA? $8-10? They're $10 here. For the FHSAA, the first round of the 9 class system will produce over $1.3+ million based on an average attendance of 1K. That's a big chunk of change in their budget, and they couldn't possibly care less if they have blowout games, and St Thomas Aquinas doesn't feel like their 9-1 season and #10 national ranking is cheapened by mercy ruling Plantaion this weekend. I'd also wage that while the VH$L probably "only" raked in around $800K in the opening round, that they didn't care that Jamestown got railed by Phoebus, and I'd also bet that Phoebus didn't feel their 11-0 record was "lessened" by the game. I agree that there needs to be less teams, but the people (VH$L) who control the show aren't giving up a big chunk of change that helps their operating budget.
I think the results of the Region D playoffs top to bottom showed that. Everyone talks up this team or that team as having a chance at an upset and then 1-4 advances. IMO 4 is the right number, but I could live with 6 to satisfy the give em a trophy crowd.
Satisfy the "give'em a trophy" crowd? You mean satisfy the VH$L? There's no trophy awarded for making the playoffs in high school, but it puts money in the pockets of the various athletic associations, and they're not giving that up...ever, and the VH$L doesn't care if some kids from Jamestown or wherever get railed in the process. It's the same way with the T$$AA , FH$AA, the KH$AA and so on and so forth. It's not just a Virginia issue.
Will you be coming up to watch any Union playoff games?
We're coming in at Thanksgiving. Hopefully we'll be watching the Bears v Graham that weekend and anything beyond that. We'll be in Kingsport through Christmas, and hope to go to Salem for the championships regardless of who is playing, but hope it's the Bears.
There's probably around 300 people here tonight for a playoff game between two schools with 6K combined students. I miss the SWVA crowds so bad. 😕 OTOH, I'm watching playoff football while wearing short sleeves, shorts and sandals. 🤔
Westwood finishes 7-3, but has to travel to Daytona Beach Mainland next week for the first round of the playoffs. Mainland is a strong favorite to win the state title in their division.
Westwood with a 70 yard TD run to bust it open. Looks like the Panthers will finish 7-3 and head to the playoffs. Nice job by coach Chris Coakle who took over an 0-10 program two seasons ago, went 5-5 and now 7-3. Not bad for a guy whose last job was as a desk jockey at the local ESPN Radio affiliate in Palm Beach. 🌴😎🌴
Westwood had a TD wiped off with 30 seconds to go on an embarrassingly weak block in the back call that had zero impact on the play. I hate calls like that.🤬
I'm watching this Rye Cove at Twin Springs game on the NFHS network, and the PA announcer is clearly doing play-by-play, even encouraging the Titans. That's not legal by VHSL rules is it?
Why wouldn't the home PA guy be biased towards the home team? I don't think I've ever been to a stadium where that wasn't the case. 🤔
End of the regular season here in Florida. Last night we saw Jensen Beach beat arch rival Martin Co 14-7 in Stuart to finish off a 9-1 regular season where their defense pitched 6 shutouts, and technically 7 because Martin Co only score came on a pick 6.
Tonight is game #26 for us so far this season as we're watching Boca Raton at Westwood here in The Fort. Both teams come in at 6-3 and are already in the playoffs. 75 degrees and really windy at kickoff.
It's one thing to go 0-10, but to not score a single point while getting crushed every single night out is just mind boggling. 😱Their MaxPreps page says they have 47.players on the roster, but MaxPreps can be wildly inaccurate sometimes.
Blacksburg is obviously horrible, but to forfeit? Nice way to send your seniors out by taking away their final game. I remember when Unaka (TN) declined to play a 1st round playoff game against an outstanding Greenback team. I didn't like it, but Unaka was down to about (IIRC) 15 players, and it was a 3 hour bus ride to Greenback. Paying for the bus, gas and meals to take a massive beatdown made it more understandable than what Blacksburg is doing.
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Phoebus vs Jamestown
in SWVA Football
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With Bluefield Researcher's help, I got it to come up. In 84, the Bobcats lost to Covington in the semis, and later on in the 80s lost to Drewry Mason & Lexington.