Will Glenvar soon go to aa?

[the watcher 10]

It looks like!Former part of Salem high, just a couple of miles away!

[deuceswild 15]

I feel like if they were further down 81.. maybe. But they are still under 650, moving to AA would make them miniscule compared to the other AA schools in that area (Cave Spring, Hidden Valley, Salem, etc.)

[trigger 10]

Why would they go to AA? Their numbers are well under alot of other single A teams.

[the watcher 10]

they are the largest a team in region c!

[GMan 3,569]

But they are still 130 kids smaller than the largest Class A team...

[trigger 10]

Grayson and Floyd were ahead of Glenvar in enrollment until recently. We were always hearing rumors about them moving up. It hasn't happend yet. I don't look for it too now. There are 4 teams in region D that are bigger than Glenvar. If Glenvar were in region B, they would be the 3rd smallest in D2. There are 9 schools in that region alone that are bigger than Glenvar. If Glenvar goes, they should be taking a bunch of other schools with them.

[KCFan 10]

Yeah, doesn't Lee have almost 900 kids or around the 850 range?

[Beamerball 566]

http://www.vhsl.org/files/fb-divisions-2009-10.pdf

[KCFan 10]

It's pretty crazy. As long as the VHSL lets these teams keep dropping that have big enrollments, you can make a case for anybody moving up to AA or dropping to A. If they just had a set number and stuck with it, solve a lot of problems. if 500-under was A, and you had 502, well too bad, you are AA.

[trigger 10]

It used to be that way until they started catering to the regions.

[deuceswild 15]

It used to be that way until they started catering to the regions.

 

Not disputing that in any way... but can you elaborate?

[VHSLhelper 571]

It's pretty crazy. As long as the VHSL lets these teams keep dropping that have big enrollments, you can make a case for anybody moving up to AA or dropping to A. If they just had a set number and stuck with it, solve a lot of problems. if 500-under was A, and you had 502, well too bad, you are AA.

 

They DO have a set number... ONE-THIRD.

Each of the 3 Groups gets 1/3 of the schools.

[KCFan 10]

Yes but 1/3 is skewed because the highest enrolled schools are 2,000 kids. A set number doesn't take into account more schools being built or consolidation.

[VHSLhelper 571]

NC, WV, TN & KY also divide equally instead of using a set number. The problem is the school ppl. who make up the VHSL. TN & KY both recently added more Groups, which is what VA should do. At least we're not as bad at this as NC. They're set-up is sooooo screwy. The have a LOT of combination Districts, and they don't do their "Divisions" until AFTER they've determined who has qualified for the playoffs.

 

Imagine Graham & Carroll Co. making the playoffs. They could be in Div. 2 & Div. 3 this year, then in Div 1 & Div. 4 next year. It all depends on the sizes of the other playoff schools. Brookville could be in Region 3, Div. 3 this year and Region 2, Div. 4 the next.

(And this happens EVERY year, not just the realignment years.)

[KCFan 10]

Like you said 4A or 5A system would really solve a lot of problems

[hoard 18]

NC, WV, TN & KY also divide equally instead of using a set number. The problem is the school ppl. who make up the VHSL. TN & KY both recently added more Groups, which is what VA should do. At least we're not as bad at this as NC. They're set-up is sooooo screwy. The have a LOT of combination Districts, and they don't do their "Divisions" until AFTER they've determined who has qualified for the playoffs.

 

Imagine Graham & Carroll Co. making the playoffs. They could be in Div. 2 & Div. 3 this year, then in Div 1 & Div. 4 next year. It all depends on the sizes of the other playoff schools. Brookville could be in Region 3, Div. 3 this year and Region 2, Div. 4 the next.

(And this happens EVERY year, not just the realignment years.)

 

I don't think NC does it that way. They have a four-class system for most sports but in football, two divisions per class, so eight state champs. They do have a lot of combination conferences but the conferences are allotted playoff spots based on the number of schools in the conference. For instance, an 8-team conference will get "x" number of spots, and so on down.

 

Virtually everyone makes the playoffs in NC because 32 teams qualify per division. They end up with a lot of 2-win teams in the post-season.

 

Kentucky went to six classes for football only within the last few years (they had four for 20 to 30 years). Four teams per district make it there and you play district opponents in the first two rounds, I think. They too have a ton of teams with losing records in the playoffs because most of their districts contain four to six teams. Not sure if they do it in equal sixths or set numbers though.

 

I think Michigan, and maybe some other states, do it the way you mentioned above.

[trublue 939]

GA high school classifications.

 

"The GHSA currently has five classes, AAAAA, AAAA, AAA, AA, and A, (called "five-A", "quad-A", "triple-A", "double-A", and "single-A" respectively) based on the schools' student population. Each class has eight regions, numbered 1 through 8, based on the geographic location of the schools involved. Region 1 of each class is usually the southernmost region, with the region numbers generally increasing as one moves north. Regions have been realigned every two years. Starting in 2010 realignment will happen every four years. Regions generally have ten schools, but can range from 4 to 16 teams.

 

Currently the largest 15% of schools are placed in AAAAA with the smallest 15% in class A and the other schools evenly divided between the other three classes. In 2008 classes were determined with a clear cut off: schools with 1850 and greater enrollment placed in AAAAA, 525 maximum enrollment for class A, and the remaining schools evenly divided between the other three classes. Schools (but not individual athletic teams) can elect to play up to a higher classification but cannot play down to a lower classification than their enrollment places them." (Above info from wikipedia but is correct I believe).

 

There are still disparities in school enrollments with 5 classifications....which is due to the tremendous growth in some counties. Gwinnett County has 15 public high schools ( in the 7AAAAA and 8AAAAA regions) that play FB; they are opening 3 new HS's in 2009-10 that will help some of the overcrowding. (Varsity FB coaches have been hired and new stadiums have been built for these schools but, they will not have a varsity team for a couple of years, I believe....only JV teams) One of the high schools, Buford, is an independent Gwinnett city school and plays AA. They are a powerhouse in AA and have won the state title several times (last year went undefeated.) The private schools in GA, also, play under the GHSA and play against public schools. Wesleyan, a private school in Gwinnett won the A state championship last year.

Following is a link to the GA schools w/enrollment and you can see in Gwinnett 7AAAAA and 8AAAAA regions that some of the schools have over 1400/1500 more students than other schools in their region.

 

http://www.ghsa.net/files/documents/Constitution/AppendixR_2008-2009.pdf

[VHSLhelper 571]

I don't think NC does it that way. They have a four-class system for most sports but in football, two divisions per class, so eight state champs. They do have a lot of combination conferences but the conferences are allotted playoff spots based on the number of schools in the conference. For instance, an 8-team conference will get "x" number of spots, and so on down.

 

Incorrect... it's based on records for the wild cards (I forgot to mention that all conf. champs get in)

If you're thinking about the "half plus one" rule, that's not used for football.

See page 52 : http://www.nchsaa.org/intranet/downloadManagerControl.php?mode=getFile&elementID=5876&type=5&atomID=6445

 

One other thing... in 4A, a couple of Fayetteville teams were in the WEST, while Greensboro fell in the East in 3AA. (http://www.highschoolot.com/content/story/3924955/)

 

And here's a story on how they determine who's big and who's small...

http://www.highschoolot.com/content/story/3864840/

(paragraphs 3 & 4)

 

And a 2007 story about the screw-up of 1 team having their opponent changed from ER to NR to M in under 24 hours and a #13 seed being corrected to a #4 seed

http://www.varsitync.com/sports/conference-633-nchsaa-cloninger.html

 

 

Virtually everyone makes the playoffs in NC because 32 teams qualify per division. They end up with a lot of 2-win teams in the post-season.

 

Wrong...it's 16 per "division", 32 per class, so 128 total.

4-6 was the worst record in 4AA, 4A, 3AA, 2AA & 2A.

In 3A, only 1 team worse than 5-5 got in (yes, they were 2-8). In Class A, 9 teams got in at 2-8. (See: http://www.highschoolot.com/content/story/3924955/)

 

Kentucky went to six classes for football only within the last few years (they had four for 20 to 30 years). Four teams per district make it there and you play district opponents in the first two rounds, I think. They too have a ton of teams with losing records in the playoffs because most of their districts contain four to six teams. Not sure if they do it in equal sixths or set numbers though.

 

They changed it back to cross-districting in the 1st 2 rounds last year.

Yeah, KY had some 0-10 teams in last year, but almost everyone knew who/where they were playing BEFORE their last regular season game.

 

And I love their rule that says "No playoff game shall be scheduled or played on a date or time that requires a loss of school time", yet the 1A state finals started at 11 am on a Friday.

[hoard 18]

No, it is 32 per division in NC. If you check those brackets in your link, they show 16 teams in 4-AA west and 16 in 4-AA east, etc, meaning 32 per division. Here's another link with full brackets and results for each:

 

http://www.nchsaa.org/championships.php?mode=publicviewchamps&sportID=10

 

As for the way NC determines the qualifiers, I was incorrect. But the schools do know they will be in one of two divisions (for instance a 4A school is going to be in either 4-AA or 4-A come playoff time). I took your initial post to mean a school could potentially be in any one of three or four divisions, which isn't the case. After reading one of those stories you linked, I see how ridiculous their seeding process is.

 

I bring this up just about every year, but the VHSL could alleviate the enrollment discrepancies between the divisions by dividing each class in half at the state (and not regional) level, then rearranging each division into four "regions" of relatively equal size just for playoff purposes. They could even do it in halves, though four regions reduces travel and expenses.

[VHSLhelper 571]

No, it is 32 per division in NC. If you check those brackets in your link, they show 16 teams in 4-AA west and 16 in 4-AA east, etc, meaning 32 per division. Here's another link with full brackets and results for each:

 

http://www.nchsaa.org/championships.php?mode=publicviewchamps&sportID=10

 

 

That's what I get for trying to do this stuff at 3 in the morning. 8 games = 16 teams on each side of the bracket = 32 total x 8 champs = 248 getting in Seems like way too many, but it's like our set-up... only way to make sure those 8-2 teams in tough districts get in also allows those 2-8 guys in.

 

...the VHSL could alleviate the enrollment discrepancies between the divisions by dividing each class in half at the state (and not regional) level, then rearranging each division into four "regions" of relatively equal size just for playoff purposes. They could even do it in halves, though four regions reduces travel and expenses.

 

 

I was actually working on that last night, too (which may have been another reason I got the NC numbers screwed up). But I kept coming up with 447.5 as the split to get 43 teams in each half. Regions C & D would have 15 each in D1 while A&B combined only have 13. That means 6 or 7 Region C teams would be "adopted" by Region B... Parry, Covington, Bath, Craig, East Mont, Auburn & Radford. Yep, the east/west split would go through Pulaski.

 

In D2, Region A would have 8, Regions C & D would have 7 each, so Region B's 21 makes up hallf of the Division. Can't exactly put A, C & D on 1 half, so 7 or 8 of the Region B teams would move to the west. To make it easier on Region A, we'll take the teams along 81 ... Luray, Riverheads, SJ-Q, Page, Buffalo Gap, Strasburg, Clarke & Central-Woodstock. Now the east/west line comes down 81 to Roanoke, then 220 to NC.

 

Now, those B guys move to C, so C will have to lose 4 of their 7. Region D would get Wythe, Chiswell & Grayson Co. Meaning C woud run from Giles to Front Royal.

 

It's a real mess. Still think the easiest and best move is to go to 5 classes of 64 teams each.

[VHSLhelper 571]

Oh, by the way....

the reason we have this f'd up thing to start with is because of this....

the first year we had Divisions, it WAS split at the state level, but Region B only had 3 teams in Div. 1, so all of then got in, and poor George Mason was 0-10, and that didn't set well with a lot of people. Well, now Mason is bigger than Grundy and is just 10 students short of being bigger than EVERY school in Region C. And Region B would be down to 2 schools in Div. 1, with Altavista 1 student away from being Div. 2.

 

And the AA split would be at 1075. Basically, Regions I, III & IV would lose 2 each to Div. 3, while Region II would have 7 schools move up to Div. 4. Each Region would need 11 or 12 teams, so Reg. IV would be just right in Div. 3, but would pick up 5 schools from Region III in Div. 4. Not that it would really matter, because the western-most D4 team would be Carroll Co.

Edited June 20, 2009 by VHSLhelper

[hoard 18]

That's what I get for trying to do this stuff at 3 in the morning. 8 games = 16 teams on each side of the bracket = 32 total x 8 champs = 248 getting in Seems like way too many, but it's like our set-up... only way to make sure those 8-2 teams in tough districts get in also allows those 2-8 guys in.

 

 

 

 

I was actually working on that last night, too (which may have been another reason I got the NC numbers screwed up). But I kept coming up with 447.5 as the split to get 43 teams in each half. Regions C & D would have 15 each in D1 while A&B combined only have 13. That means 6 or 7 Region C teams would be "adopted" by Region B... Parry, Covington, Bath, Craig, East Mont, Auburn & Radford. Yep, the east/west split would go through Pulaski.

 

In D2, Region A would have 8, Regions C & D would have 7 each, so Region B's 21 makes up hallf of the Division. Can't exactly put A, C & D on 1 half, so 7 or 8 of the Region B teams would move to the west. To make it easier on Region A, we'll take the teams along 81 ... Luray, Riverheads, SJ-Q, Page, Buffalo Gap, Strasburg, Clarke & Central-Woodstock. Now the east/west line comes down 81 to Roanoke, then 220 to NC.

 

Now, those B guys move to C, so C will have to lose 4 of their 7. Region D would get Wythe, Chiswell & Grayson Co. Meaning C woud run from Giles to Front Royal.

 

It's a real mess. Still think the easiest and best move is to go to 5 classes of 64 teams each.

 

One sticking point to trying to work this out is when you end up with schools from five different districts in one region...i.e. the possibility of five district champs qualifying for four playoff spots in football.

 

I'd rather have four or five classes as well, but I think too many VHSL schools are satisfied with three classes due to financial and scheduling reasons.

[GMan 3,569]

One sticking point to trying to work this out is when you end up with schools from five different districts in one region...i.e. the possibility of five district champs qualifying for four playoff spots in football.

 

Not a problem anymore considering the VHSL now allows Regions to do playoff however they want to...for example, Region C will have SIX teams to make the playoffs this year.

[VHSLhelper 571]

yeah, but soon this mess spreads to baseball, softball, etc., and every sport will have it's own format.

[GMan 3,569]

yeah, but soon this mess spreads to baseball, softball, etc., and every sport will have it's own format.

 

They've had their own formats in other sports long before football made the changes...