Refs at Carroll were horrible!

[Huntercav 10]

@Lance: I would love to see your stats on beating playoff teams like a drum because I don't remember beating many teams, Single-A, playoff bound, or other, like a drum. I posted Carroll County's all-time record, including home record, and away record last year when this "stuff" surfaced. I also posted their all-time records against Richlands and Graham, some of which you surely witnessed. They have won a total of 3 games against those programs-3! Statistically speaking at most EVERY level of most every sport, picking the home team will keep you over .500! There is no statistical anomaly with CCHS's home record in the past or in the present. Ironically, 3 of their 5 losses came at home last year. IMHO, they were more program losses (C'burg, Richlands, Magna Vista) than anything to do with coaching, or refs, or venue. So if you could send me a PM with your information I would love to be better educated on this topic.

 

@ba961: "Facts are the facts." What facts? Some fan asked if you were at Carroll because of calls at Abingdon? WTF? There is not much of a reason to get into a pissing contest here over any of this. I asked for examples and you reference any calls going against a road team making an opponent feel like they are playing at CCHS? Last year's RHS/CCHS game was a mess. Nobody from either side should look at it any differently. There were 30 calls and it was 16/14 and the yardage was within 10 yards. The score was 28-13. Very good game that wasn't great because of all the flags-BOTH WAYS. As for some bus ride up or down I-77, I have no clue what you mean? I said travel was difficult most everywhere in the district including teams traveling to Carroll. It is NO different for Grundy to come here than Carroll to go there. It is EXTREMELY difficult to make back to back road trips to Grundy and Richlands for CCHS-period! That is no excuse or reason for any outcome in either game. Like I said, I will be THRILLED when this district goes belly up and it has nothing to do with any hard feelings toward any community within the district. Travel is miserable (especially for basketball and wrestling due to inclement weather and darkness) and there are no natural rivals for CCHS. It was never a natural or good fit geographically or with enrollment. Those factors have already made for changes with more on the way.

[Lance 228]

@Lance: I would love to see your stats on beating playoff teams like a drum because I don't remember beating many teams, Single-A, playoff bound, or other, like a drum. I posted Carroll County's all-time record, including home record, and away record last year when this "stuff" surfaced. I also posted their all-time records against Richlands and Graham, some of which you surely witnessed. They have won a total of 3 games against those programs-3! Statistically speaking at most EVERY level of most every sport, picking the home team will keep you over .500! There is no statistical anomaly with CCHS's home record in the past or in the present. Ironically, 3 of their 5 losses came at home last year. IMHO, they were more program losses (C'burg, Richlands, Magna Vista) than anything to do with coaching, or refs, or venue. So if you could send me a PM with your information I would love to be better educated on this topic.

 

 

the period everyone was complaining about was the 2002-2005 years...in 2005 it was changed so you guys used the same refs as everyone else for the 2006 season.

 

if you can't see the trend here and the change as soon as the refs were changed then i dont know what else to tell you...also the complaining about the refs EVERY game has stopped...you might get the occasionally bad called game, but thats the norm every where...and you are more in line with that now as a result.

 

 

 

2002

3-2 at home. 2-3 road. lost to graham and floyd co at home

 

2003

unbeaten at home 4-2 road

 

2004

 

unbeaten at home 2-5 road

 

2005

4-1 at home (Richlands loss 7-6) 3-3 road.

 

2006 new refs

 

2-3 at home 4-2 road.

 

2007

 

3-2 at home 1-4 road

[Huntercav 10]

Ah, it's a shame you didn't go back just another season or two and that would have covered our 0-5, 0-5, 0-10 season! I didn't realize the window was "only" four seasons and I still don't remember drumming playoff teams in that time frame. I remember not winning the district and losing a playoff game 3-0 to Magna Vista (it's a shame that one wasn't played in Hillsville I guess). If it's a moot point and things have changed, why is it being mentioned? It would be akin to throwing up the Richlands "cleat gate" every week also? Carroll's overall win total has declined over the last decade, mainly due to adding more AA schools to the very weak schedule in the late 90's early 2000's that included mostly A schools. I wasn't aware of the change made with refs and haven't seen much improvement myself. I still beleive the games are poorly called BOTH WAYS and that horse is dead. I agree with your assertion that flags should only be thrown if it gives a team an advange in the flow of the play or relates to injury risks.

 

Now, the numbers you provide are very interesting indeed. Assuming that how the games were called is the only variable in play, which is a huge stretch, there are CLEAR anomalies. The overall win total in numbers was 63%. A home record of 85% and road record of 46%. That's +39%, which is indeed VERY significant. The other years are at 53% overall, with a home record at 60%. That % is more in line with what one would expect. A more interesting look would give us penalty yardage at CCHS games versus road games. Do you have those numbers or is your position based entirely on wins and losses? It would also be interesting to see if the opponents changed during that time frame. At any rate, good work in isolating these numbers for the years in question and a closer look at more variables would also be interesting!

 

On a related issue: ESPN mentioned Marshall University's record at their "new" stadium, Joan C. Edwards, was the best home field "advantage" or record in FBS. They have won 89% of their games at home, which represents an approximate +50% with their overall win %!!! Maybe some of the refs displaced by the changes in 2005 migrated to Huntington? There may even be an embedded period of some REAL weird numbers in those stats??? Not trying to be cute, just food for thought.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Huntercav

[Lance 228]

Ah, it's a shame you didn't go back just another season or two and that would have covered our 0-5, 0-5, 0-10 season! I didn't realize the window was "only" four seasons and I still don't remember drumming playoff teams in that time frame. I remember not winning the district and losing a playoff game 3-0 to Magna Vista (it's a shame that one wasn't played in Hillsville I guess). If it's a moot point and things have changed, why is it being mentioned? It would be akin to throwing up the Richlands "cleat gate" every week also? Carroll's overall win total has declined over the last decade, mainly due to adding more AA schools to the very weak schedule in the late 90's early 2000's that included mostly A schools. I wasn't aware of the change made with refs and haven't seen much improvement myself. I still beleive the games are poorly called BOTH WAYS and that horse is dead. I agree with your assertion that flags should only be thrown if it gives a team an advange in the flow of the play or relates to injury risks.

 

Now, the numbers you provide are very interesting indeed. Assuming that how the games were called is the only variable in play, which is a huge stretch, there are CLEAR anomalies. The overall win total in numbers was 63%. A home record of 85% and road record of 46%. That's +39%, which is indeed VERY significant. The other years are at 53% overall, with a home record at 60%. That % is more in line with what one would expect. A more interesting look would give us penalty yardage at CCHS games versus road games. Do you have those numbers or is your position based entirely on wins and losses? It would also be interesting to see if the opponents changed during that time frame. At any rate, good work in isolating these numbers for the years in question and a closer look at more variables would also be interesting!

 

i can appreciate what you are saying...really. I have said that things now seem to be more fair and the problems have been corrected. I didn't bring it up here, nor elsewhere and have not had a bad word to say about CC in years.

 

The problem was that after about 3 years of everyone going down there and getting flagged every time you got positive yardage on a play, it started to get old...after going to see other teams get the same treatment, and at a Richlands game getting pass interference calls when the defender was not within 4 yards of the WR on an underthrown pass to keep a drive alive...after reading what happened the week before to Grundy down there...yeah people started to open their eyes and question what was happening.

 

As far as penalty numbers go, a 10 yard holding penalty looks like 10 yards in the box score but could wipe out a 50 yard TD run...so even if we had those numbers there is no way you could get a feel for how they really affected the game. What we do have is a lot of complaints that started around 2004 after everyone started complaining about the refs down there...it started happening around 2002 and ended in 2006 when the refs were changed back to AOA refs like everyone else in the SWD uses. By your own figures you can see there is a difference in that timeframe.

 

I am not saying, nor is anyone else saying that prior to 2002 there was a problem...in fact there were not really any complaints that I know of prior to that time...nor since 2006 on a weekly basis...but from 2002 thru the 2005 season there were complaints...and if you look at the home vs. road records, there is something there...no doubt.

 

As for this thread and ref complaints now, you will notice that I always say since the 2006 season you guys have used our refs and the problem has been corrected...you might still get a stray game that the refs suck and screw up the calls, but that happens everywhere from time to time...the problem was that from 2002 to 2005 there were 4 seasons that no one could go to CC even when you guys were not a very good team, and get a clean win...or a clean loss...people called it out and changes were made...problem corrected.

 

Was there anything to it? you can argue no, i can argue yes...but the numbers in the win/loss column don't lie...you guys won every home game and at one point i believe it was 13 or 15 straight at home...which is fine if you have a road win/loss record that is somewhat close to that....but you didn't.

 

so...with all due respect to CC, it's 4 years in the past now...things are pretty close to where you would expect them to be...it is what it is.

[Huntercav 10]

We are not in disagreement that the numbers in that period ARE significant. I am not going to argue or defend the record. I have ZERO ownership or responsiblity for anything that happens during the course of a game-never did at CCHS. Not in 2002, in 2005, or tomorrow. I will also agree that having raw numbers wouldn't give us all we needed because of the hidden yardage you alluded to involved with all calls, as they change field position, down, distance, and play calling-especially for a team like Carroll which is getting most yardage at a clip of 3-4 yards a play. Staying ahead of the chains is a must for CCHS. We also wouldn't get the calls which were not made. That is the BIGGEST variable involved IMHO. Clearly, the way a game is called influences the outcome-positively or negatively. Seldom is it the single most important factor in winning or losing. The late Vince Lombardi said: "Winning and losing in the game of football comes down to a hand full of plays. Since I can't tell you which ones they are, you have to play them all." How true! Turnover margin is probably the single greatest factor, but I will not minimize how significant a flag or two or three can be...

[Lance 228]

and one last point, no one is saying that CC bought off the refs in this timeframe or whatever else...CCHS probably had NOTHING to do with what went on any more than the visitng team...but, the outcome was still a flag fest and CC got the win.

[a1622 10]

i hate to do this, because i love abingdon and appreciate southbound's loyal support, but southbound needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut. sure the ref's didn't help at CC, but they weren't so horrible they made us lose. we came out flat, got hit in the mouth and didn't respond, simple as that. we just didn't play solid football. i'm just as sick of people talking crap about abingdon as southbound, but it's threads like this that get everybody pissed at us. idk about you southbound, but i plan on accepting a loss where we just got beat because we didnt show up, and nutting up to fight back. i dont mean any disrespect, southbound, but think about what kind of name you're giving abingdon when you post. not everyone at abingdon is a whining baby like people think. we've just gotta nut up or shut up

[a1622 10]

and sorry i'm a little behind on the subject of the thread. i'm not big on talking on these things, but something had to be said

[jeffab20 13]

i think ppl feel the same way when they leave from playing the falcons !!!!

[CAVALIERS2 10]

Were you at the game? Pay attention and read the posts! I am going to scold you for not following directions. :mad: Remember you have a trip to Falcon Field this year and the entrance "Enter Sanman" will be waiting on you. :eek: The most electrifying entrance in SWVA!!! :D

 

thats tha stupidest shit ever. Many NFL teams and college teams use that song for an entrence. BE ORGINIAL! COME UP WITH SOMETHIBG NEW!

[CAVALIERS2 10]

Agree. I def. am not taking up for Abingdon ( they got beat period) but to me whenever someone goes to CC its always going to be a dog fight b/c of the refs, sorry to hurt someones feelings but the officiating at CC is horrible.

 

and the players and coachs for CC dont have a thing to do with what refs call tha game. stop bein lil panzies and just play football. yall been talkin about this same old s**t for yrs. ive played at cc for yrs. now im watchin games as fan. and it looks like other teams are makin an excuse. yea there might be a few questionable calls during the game.... but that is the same in any sport, at any level, anywhere!

[CAVALIERS2 10]

The ejected AHS player exhibited (punching a player and then kicking him) the most BUSH league piss poor example of football I've ever seen. The AHS coaching staff needs to address that issue-not me and not refs. As for the refs at the game, I agree they were horrible. They didn't know the rule on personal fouls and blew two of them against the home team-GASP! They also called back a CCHS touchdown. Look at the stats and stop making the same juvenile BS cries about refs. Abingdon didn't execute and got their asses kicked-period end of story-no ref influences in an outcome that surprised most everybody.

 

It still amazes me that every school has it repuation on this board. Let's see:

CCHS cheats at home games only by bringing their own refs?

Richlands recruits?

Tazewell runs off coaches?

Graham needs a coach to run off?

Grundy usually sucks, but has a decent team this year?

Marion dodges most criticism because who cares?

Abingdon is a bunch of whining a-holes that everybody loves to hate?

 

Did I miss anything? These are not my views; rather, repeated juvenile claims of misguided users of this forum. I will be glad when the district is no more, as many of you also feel the same...

 

 

 

true as hell!