Paradise Lost...Again

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Twenty minutes after the game, when I walked out of Scott Stadium, I called my best friend from UVA, a sports addict who lives in Los Angeles, to make sure that he was alive. I'm really not joking. The man's so high strung, there's about a 2%-3% chance that UVA just killed him. We talked until my battery died. We both sounded like we were coming back from open-heart surgery, except my voice was an octave deeper from screaming myself hoarse until the first drive of the second half. We both agreed on one thing: the manner of defeat taints the whole damned season.

 

It happened. Again. In the biggest statement game UVA's had since Florida State in 2004, the Hoos failed in catastrophic fashion (coincidentally, much like the 36-3 blowout in that game). Six times UVA crossed midfield, six times UVA was denied a single point. Four turnovers, five if you count the mind-boggling decision to go for a 4th-and-2 on a defense that limited UVA to 1.2 yards/carry. The secondary had been a weakness all season, but it was a sieve. So, too, was our run defense. A missed short field goal that would've avoided a shutout. The Hoos lost RB-of-the-future Kevin Parks to a leg injury. Everything that could go wrong did. It doesn't matter that if these two teams played 50 times, this would be the most lopsided score of the bunch. Virginia Tech played an A+ game against us, just like they always seem to do. UVA played an F- game for the first time all season. In the words of John Facenda, "it was a loss from the dimensions of which no honor could be salvaged".

 

In the sporting world, I'm seldom taken aback by the result of a game. How could any rational person ever see this coming. No, idiotic "we're gunna beat you'ns by thirtee" predictions by homer/bandwagon "fans" don't count. UVA fans feel like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas, getting it made and never seeing that bullet to the back of the head coming. Actually, I think the better comparison is Carrie. UVA football is the girl that constantly gets crapped on, who never has anything come easy. Out of nowhere, UVA gets invited to the prom and gets the attention that's been so long coming. All of a sudden...WHAM. The blood, the cackling..."They're allllllll gonna laugh at youuuuu."

 

This is my team, though. I've come to grips with that the hard way. They're part of me, for better or worse. Sometimes UVA lifts me to a higher place. Just as often, UVA kicks me in the crotch with stilettos. There are several thousand diehards like me, all trapped in the same bad relationship. If UVA was a girl, though, I'd break up with her. I'd tell her that I just can't take the constant downs compared to all the wonderful things she gives you. Sports isn't dating, though. Unless you're a bandwagon jumper, of which there are many around here, you're stuck with the same teams. It's more like a marriage.

 

Given that the Hokies were involved, though, this was worse than Florida State, 2004. I really can't explain why. You have to be a UVA fan to understand. You just do. It's not that Virginia Tech wins so often. It's everything else that comes along with it. The not-so-friendly barbs. The condescending remarks, as in calling someone that you don't know a prick. The general sense of unwarranted superiority from a collection of fans that derive a grossly disproportionate amount of self-esteem from the success of its football team. I don't care that the Hokies keep winning as much as so many of their fans are vindictive asses about it. Not all of them, not even most of them, but enough of them.

 

This doesn't mean that I hate Virginia Tech. Fine school. Have many, many friends who went there, some of whom are on this board. Have a fiancee who went there. I also like the passion that their fans as a collective whole show. I wish UVA had more of that and less of donors that buy season tickets just to sell the package for a profit on the ticket exchange sites. However, there's a clear difference between passion and vitriol. With age comes wisdom, and with wisdom comes the difference to differentiate between the two. Keep in mind which is which if you think about jumping all over me for this post, much as I'm sure has been done in the other two threads.

 

Nothing lasts forever. One day, the shoe will be on the other foot. I just hope I'm not gray-headed when it happens.

Edited November 27, 2011 by UVAObserver

[GMan 3,569]

Virginia Tech played an A+ game against us, just like they always seem to do. UVA played an F- game for the first time all season.

 

Maybe there is a reason for this...one you always seem to avoid...

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Maybe there is a reason for this...one you always seem to avoid...

 

What are you getting at? There's no question VT has the better team, I think that was proven quite convincingly yesterday. Since this streak began, except for 2008, VT has played its best, most complete game of the season against UVA.

[vthokies4life 10]

Maybe there is a reason for this...one you always seem to avoid...

I think you missed the thesis of Observer's post. Regardless of wins and losses, the garish lampooning that VT fans inflict on our neighbors up the highway a little ways is completely counter to the culture that Virginia Tech hoped would come post-April 16th. And to think that the mockery is simply based on football... Yes, I like the sport. But the tribalism and barbarianism that it elicits is something that is unnecessary and off-putting. It seems like now is the time that we, as a sports/entertainment-loving society, put the games we love into perspective.

 

That's just me though.

[GMan 3,569]

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

 

Where did you get that video in your sig??!?!

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I think you missed the thesis of Observer's post. Regardless of wins and losses, the garish lampooning that VT fans inflict on our neighbors up the highway a little ways is completely counter to the culture that Virginia Tech hoped would come post-April 16th. And to think that the mockery is simply based on football... Yes, I like the sport. But the tribalism and barbarianism that it elicits is something that is unnecessary and off-putting. It seems like now is the time that we, as a sports/entertainment-loving society, put the games we love into perspective.

 

That's just me though.

 

Good post. Apparently, didn't make much of a dent, but that's very close.

 

Where did you get that video in your sig??!?!

 

The one with Greer is a much more devastating hit. Surprised he didn't use that one.

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

Good post. Apparently, didn't make much of a dent, but that's very close.

 

 

 

The one with Greer is a much more devastating hit. Surprised he didn't use that one.

 

I think it's the simple fact it was our QB. Lol. Btw, how is Greer and Parks?

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I think it's the simple fact it was our QB. Lol. Btw, how is Greer and Parks?

 

Parks aggravated an ankle sprain suffered in Week 3. He's had Grade-2 sprains in both ankles this season. He needs an offseason of rest to get the ankles back in working order. Not surprisingly, he's not going to hit holes with conviction until he heals.

 

Greer came back in on the next series. Kid's tough. Just had the wind knocked out of him.

 

As far as a QB laying that block, the "he was recruited as a TE" thing goes both ways.

[RichlandsAlum 678]

Wouldn't expect it to make you feel a lot better, but I still remember another 38-0 outcome very vividly and feeling much the same way. It was the 1991 installment of the Tech-UVa series. Your side were the victors then and were quite frankly still light years ahead of our program at the time.

 

A bitter pill, I know. But keep an eye toward the horizon. Things do change (and sometimes very rapidly) in college football. One of the things that makes it very interesting.

 

Very best of luck in your bowl game -- that's a consolation that Hokies of my vintage never knew.

[deuceswild 15]

This installment had the outcome that I desperately wanted especially in a year that UVA was confident they could win without any evidence suggesting that possibility. I wanted Tech to put UVA "back in it's place". But that outcome, unfortunately, isn't what our rivalry needs. Our program has come a long way in the right direction and along the way somehow surpassed several of our old competitors in terms of recent success. I feel what VT fans desperately want is a rivalry that matters. We want one team that gets us fired up. For a stint it was Miami, but they have fallen to the wayside. Then Boston College kept our interest for a couple years but now Super Mario has them at the bottom. One could maybe pose Georgia Tech but who knows how long that will last? What we want are games where UVA is hyped and we get a chance to prove to ourselves that we're as good as we say we are.

 

I'm always going to make condescending remarks about UVA in it's entirety, full-well knowing it is one of the best academic institutions in the world, is drenched in history, has produced hundreds of noteworthy scholars, and has a football team responsible for several exceptional NFL players. I know plenty of Hoos who are great people and have even met a few UVA football players in the past, who knowing I was a Hokie, still showed me a good time. But I'm always going to rip on UVA because you're different from us and you're our rival.

 

I also want UVA to do well for 11 games every year. I want UVA to matter when we beat them. This year UVA mattered. The scoreline tends to show that maybe UVA wasn't ready for what it signed up for, but UVA mattered. And I loved it. Even if we had lost, I would have eventually gotten over it and respected the fact that this is what our rivalry needs.

 

Matter again next year. Hell, matter more. And try it again at Lane. I'll be pulling for the Hoos, much like I do all ACC teams, during Bowl Season.

 

I also have two observations about the game...

1) Your offensive line impressed me for three quarters.

2) What was the deal on that punt signal? I still don't understand what happened.

[hokie07 11]

This installment had the outcome that I desperately wanted especially in a year that UVA was confident they could win without any evidence suggesting that possibility. I wanted Tech to put UVA "back in it's place". But that outcome, unfortunately, isn't what our rivalry needs. Our program has come a long way in the right direction and along the way somehow surpassed several of our old competitors in terms of recent success. I feel what VT fans desperately want is a rivalry that matters. We want one team that gets us fired up. For a stint it was Miami, but they have fallen to the wayside. Then Boston College kept our interest for a couple years but now Super Mario has them at the bottom. One could maybe pose Georgia Tech but who knows how long that will last? What we want are games where UVA is hyped and we get a chance to prove to ourselves that we're as good as we say we are.

 

I'm always going to make condescending remarks about UVA in it's entirety, full-well knowing it is one of the best academic institutions in the world, is drenched in history, has produced hundreds of noteworthy scholars, and has a football team responsible for several exceptional NFL players. I know plenty of Hoos who are great people and have even met a few UVA football players in the past, who knowing I was a Hokie, still showed me a good time. But I'm always going to rip on UVA because you're different from us and you're our rival.

 

I also want UVA to do well for 11 games every year. I want UVA to matter when we beat them. This year UVA mattered. The scoreline tends to show that maybe UVA wasn't ready for what it signed up for, but UVA mattered. And I loved it. Even if we had lost, I would have eventually gotten over it and respected the fact that this is what our rivalry needs.

 

Matter again next year. Hell, matter more. And try it again at Lane. I'll be pulling for the Hoos, much like I do all ACC teams, during Bowl Season.

 

Good post. I believe that it is the sentiment of a lot of Hokie fans on this board. I, too, like to see UVA do well 11 games out of the year, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for everything that is associated with the university. I like to see Virginia as a state do well and UVA represents the state in a positive light in thousands of different ways off the football field.

 

2) What was the deal on that punt signal? I still don't understand what happened.

 

I think this was just a completely blown call by the officials. The UVA player was motioning for his players to get away from the ball by waving his hands at his hips and it was wrongly interpreted as a fair catch signal. Once he fielded the punt and began to run, he was flagged for delay of game. ACC refs dropping the ball on a call, surprise surprise.

[bhs7695 185]

I think this was just a completely blown call by the officials. The UVA player was motioning for his players to get away from the ball by waving his hands at his hips and it was wrongly interpreted as a fair catch signal. Once he fielded the punt and began to run, he was flagged for delay of game. ACC refs dropping the ball on a call, surprise surprise.

 

I know I've heard it mentioned watching games before that it's in the rule book that a player cannot make ANY hand signal on a kick/punt return and then run with the ball. It's a penalty no matter what the signal is, period.

[GMan 3,569]

I think this was just a completely blown call by the officials. The UVA player was motioning for his players to get away from the ball by waving his hands at his hips and it was wrongly interpreted as a fair catch signal. Once he fielded the punt and began to run, he was flagged for delay of game. ACC refs dropping the ball on a call, surprise surprise.

 

I saw that same call in another game earlier this year but the explanation was different. The explanation that was given in that instance was that once a player starts waving off his players, it is considered giving up the right to return the punt, much like a fair catch. I think the explanation of "invalid fair catch signal" was incorrect in yesterday's game but pretty sure the call itself was correct (penalty for attempting to return a punt after waving off other players).

[hokie07 11]

I know I've heard it mentioned watching games before that it's in the rule book that a player cannot make ANY hand signal on a kick/punt return and then run with the ball. It's a penalty no matter what the signal is, period.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I've never heard that before, and I saw London arguing with the refs about it and he was showing the difference between waving the hands at the waist to signal "get away" vs. waving a hand over the head to signal a fair catch. Thought he might know what he was talking about so I assumed that the refs blew another call. It'd be a good rule to know!

[bhs7695 185]

Its been a confusing rule for a while now!

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I saw that same call in another game earlier this year but the explanation was different. The explanation that was given in that instance was that once a player starts waving off his players, it is considered giving up the right to return the punt, much like a fair catch. I think the explanation of "invalid fair catch signal" was incorrect in yesterday's game but pretty sure the call itself was correct (penalty for attempting to return a punt after waving off other players).

 

There was a similar call in the 2006 game between us. Our returner waved for a fair catch, caught the ball, and started jogging toward the sidelines before flicking the ball to the referee. We were flagged for "advancing the ball after a fair catch".

 

But your interpretation of the rule and call is correct. Wasn't that big a deal, only a 5-yard dead ball loss, but it lit London up like a Christmas tree, which disappointed me.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Wouldn't expect it to make you feel a lot better, but I still remember another 38-0 outcome very vividly and feeling much the same way. It was the 1991 installment of the Tech-UVa series. Your side were the victors then and were quite frankly still light years ahead of our program at the time.

 

A bitter pill, I know. But keep an eye toward the horizon. Things do change (and sometimes very rapidly) in college football. One of the things that makes it very interesting.

 

Very best of luck in your bowl game -- that's a consolation that Hokies of my vintage never knew.

 

Thanks, I do appreciate that.

 

If London can come even remotely close to approaching what Beamer built, we'd be tickled pink. If we could get Welsh-like results, it'd be a vast improvement. With the talent coming in and the play-calling ingenuity that we had at times this season, there's hope.

 

This installment had the outcome that I desperately wanted especially in a year that UVA was confident they could win without any evidence suggesting that possibility. I wanted Tech to put UVA "back in it's place". But that outcome, unfortunately, isn't what our rivalry needs. Our program has come a long way in the right direction and along the way somehow surpassed several of our old competitors in terms of recent success. I feel what VT fans desperately want is a rivalry that matters. We want one team that gets us fired up. For a stint it was Miami, but they have fallen to the wayside. Then Boston College kept our interest for a couple years but now Super Mario has them at the bottom. One could maybe pose Georgia Tech but who knows how long that will last? What we want are games where UVA is hyped and we get a chance to prove to ourselves that we're as good as we say we are.

 

I'm always going to make condescending remarks about UVA in it's entirety, full-well knowing it is one of the best academic institutions in the world, is drenched in history, has produced hundreds of noteworthy scholars, and has a football team responsible for several exceptional NFL players. I know plenty of Hoos who are great people and have even met a few UVA football players in the past, who knowing I was a Hokie, still showed me a good time. But I'm always going to rip on UVA because you're different from us and you're our rival.

 

I also want UVA to do well for 11 games every year. I want UVA to matter when we beat them. This year UVA mattered. The scoreline tends to show that maybe UVA wasn't ready for what it signed up for, but UVA mattered. And I loved it. Even if we had lost, I would have eventually gotten over it and respected the fact that this is what our rivalry needs.

 

Matter again next year. Hell, matter more. And try it again at Lane. I'll be pulling for the Hoos, much like I do all ACC teams, during Bowl Season.

 

I also have two observations about the game...

1) Your offensive line impressed me for three quarters.

2) What was the deal on that punt signal? I still don't understand what happened.

 

Perhaps we can make the rivalry matter this much in the future. Starting in 2013 onward, it probably will, if London can maintain the level of performance that he got from this year's squad. We'll see.

[GMan 3,569]

If London can come even remotely close to approaching what Beamer built, we'd be tickled pink. If we could get Welsh-like results, it'd be a vast improvement.

 

But for how long will UVA fans be happy with "Welsh-like" results. Obviously, they weren't happy with his results while he was there, otherwise they wouldn't have run him off. I always told my UVA buddies that getting rid of GW was a bad move...personally, I liked George Welsh, though he was a hell of a coach and did a hell of a job at UVA.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

But for how long will UVA fans be happy with "Welsh-like" results. Obviously, they weren't happy with his results while he was there, otherwise they wouldn't have run him off. I always told my UVA buddies that getting rid of GW was a bad move...personally, I liked George Welsh, though he was a hell of a coach and did a hell of a job at UVA.

 

Some won't ever be happy until UVA hoists a national title. They're spoiled by coaches like Brian O'Connor, who came in overnight and transformed UVA's baseball team from .500 to perennial Top-10. Like Dom Starsia, the winningest lacrosse coach ever. Like George Gelnovatch, who won a national title in soccer just 2 years back and is on the hot seat again after a middling season.

 

I think, however, that UVA fans are like many others. Go back to 1990, if you will? Would Hokie fans have been pleased with 8-4 seasons every year? Heck yes, they would've. 8-4 now to your fans is almost a clarion call for firing someone. UVA fans were spoiled by Welsh's 8-9-10 win seasons from '84-'98. The 6-5 seasons at the end of the campaign weren't good enough for just enough people to force George out the door.

 

I agree, George should've been given a longer leash. He had some awful luck that wasn't his own doing, like Ronald Curry, for example. What he did at UVA was miraculous, considering where the program was in 1980. He's not in the CFB Hall of Fame for nothing. We've paid for that for almost a decade.

 

Finally, I think, we're starting to come out of it a bit.

[dcecilgolf 11]

It will be interesting to see the paths the two programs take once Beamer finally retires.

If London is still the coach at UVA (which I think he will be esp. since he turned down Penn State), UVA could easily pass VT as the better program in the state.

[Ryan4VT 4,554]

It will be interesting to see the paths the two programs take once Beamer finally retires.

If London is still the coach at UVA (which I think he will be esp. since he turned down Penn State), UVA could easily pass VT as the better program in the state.

 

That also depends on who takes over.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

That also depends on who takes over.

 

I think the odds are much more likely than not. Here's why.

 

Bud's gone if he's not the next head coach. It is the exception, not the norm, for a coach to toil away in a coordinator's position into his late-50s. That's what age I predict Bud will be when Beamer steps down around the end of this decade. Bud's got a bit of an ego, and he's the "elder statesman". How's he going to take to someone either from inside (Shane Beamer, for example) or outside coming in to take the position?

 

If he's the next head coach, how's that going to turn out? He's going to have to hire a new DC, unless he wants to drive himself into the ground by micromanaging the defense as the head coach. Those who are quality DCs are more likely than not entrenched at their respective universities. The choices are (1) promote from within or (2) hire from FCS or non-BCS FBS. VERY doubtful that the new DC could be as successful.

 

That being said, Bud comes off as awfully gruff, where Beamer is more of an "aw shucks" peacekeeper. How's that personality shift going to affect the staff?

 

To avoid a noticeable slip at VT, VT's going to have to open up the coffers wide for whatever successful coach 'du jour' is on the marketplace at that time. Would VT be willing to? Would VT be willing to take a chance on alienating Bud by hiring an unproven candidate?

 

Lots of questions.

[dcecilgolf 11]

I think the odds are much more likely than not. Here's why.

 

Bud's gone if he's not the next head coach. It is the exception, not the norm, for a coach to toil away in a coordinator's position into his late-50s. That's what age I predict Bud will be when Beamer steps down around the end of this decade. Bud's got a bit of an ego, and he's the "elder statesman". How's he going to take to someone either from inside (Shane Beamer, for example) or outside coming in to take the position?

 

If he's the next head coach, how's that going to turn out? He's going to have to hire a new DC, unless he wants to drive himself into the ground by micromanaging the defense as the head coach. Those who are quality DCs are more likely than not entrenched at their respective universities. The choices are (1) promote from within or (2) hire from FCS or non-BCS FBS. VERY doubtful that the new DC could be as successful.

 

That being said, Bud comes off as awfully gruff, where Beamer is more of an "aw shucks" peacekeeper. How's that personality shift going to affect the staff?

 

To avoid a noticeable slip at VT, VT's going to have to open up the coffers wide for whatever successful coach 'du jour' is on the marketplace at that time. Would VT be willing to? Would VT be willing to take a chance on alienating Bud by hiring an unproven candidate?

 

Lots of questions.

 

I agree with that

I don't think it will be as easy as a lot of people think where you can just plug and chug Foster for Beamer.

 

Bud Foster has but up some GREAT defenses over the years with 2* and 3* talent, but keeps getting passed over for a HC job.

You have to question why and ask yourself what is wrong with him that nobody will take a risk.

Muschamp had average defenses at Texas with 4* and 5* star talent but he gets the Florida job.

There is a reason Bud isn't a HC somewhere, I may be coming off as a little pessimistic for the post-Beamer era, but only time well tell.