hokie07 11 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Jimmy J is really throwing out the $$$$$.... http://www.wtrf.com/story/18374236/greenbrier-owner-says-woods-will-play-in-classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker 82 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I guess since his tournament winnings are down, he will rack up some appearance $$$$. The man has to pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Jimmy J is really throwing out the $$$$$.... http://www.wtrf.com/story/18374236/greenbrier-owner-says-woods-will-play-in-classic Nothing like playing a softball course to get the groove back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 It is against PGA Tour policy to pay appearance fees. This would have had to have been worked out in some other way. It is well known that Tiger's bag sponsor for many years was Buick and he never missed any GM sponsored golf tournaments. Much like Anthony Kim, Luke Donald, Fred Couples, Morgan Pressel, Ernie Els, Jim Furyk and Matt Kuchar are sponsored by RBC and they never miss either of the RBC sponsored tournaments, the RBC Canadian Open and the RBC Heritage at Hilton Head. They find ways around it so it's not considered an "appearance fee". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie07 11 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Nothing like playing a softball course to get the groove back. I'm kind of confused as to which softball course you're talking about. Are you talking about the one that Phil Mickelson and a slew of other of the field's top players missed the cut at last year or the one where the 10-under par winning score on the course ended up playing harder than 38 of the 50 courses on the PGA schedule last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Nothing like playing a softball course to get the groove back. I'm kind of confused as to which softball course you're talking about. Are you talking about the one that Phil Mickelson and a slew of other of the field's top players missed the cut at last year or the one where the 10-under par winning score on the course ended up playing harder than 38 of the 50 courses on the PGA schedule last season? Agreed. Jimbo made the Old White much more difficult by adding about 400 yards to the total length of the course. No longer a pitch and putt like it was a few years back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Account 5,203 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Agreed. Jimbo made the Old White much more difficult by adding about 400 yards to the total length of the course. No longer a pitch and putt like it was a few years back... That averages out to what, a whopping 22 yards per hole? For a pro, that's the difference between using a 5-iron and using an 6-iron, am I right? Even if some holes were lengthened by as much as 40 yards, a PGA Tour player should be able to hit the green on a 450-yard Par 4. Now, if the tabletop greens were reshaped and restructured, or if there were more difficult rough and hazards put into play, we might be talking. If that's so, let me know. If not, just adding distance isn't going to do the trick. Just because it's "local" doesn't mean that it's that difficult when compared to other courses elsewhere. As far as PGA-level courses go, it's easily bottom 1/4. It's the same point I try unsuccessfully to drive home to the homers on the high school board when I say that that "INSERT TALENTED REGION II SCHOOL HERE" is a 2-touchdown favorite over "INSERT REGION IV SCHOOL WITH GAUDY RECORD BUT AWFUL SOS". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Agreed. Jimbo made the Old White much more difficult by adding about 400 yards to the total length of the course. No longer a pitch and putt like it was a few years back... To add to your point, the Old White Course went through some modifications other than length. All 18 greens, as well as the practice putting and pitching greens, were reconstructed following the 2010 final round where Stuart Appleby shot a 59. They narrowed a ton of fairways, added trees, expanded the lake on #16 and reseeded new greens on all 18 holes with Tyee Creeping Bentgrass, which is a VERY fast surface. Edit to add 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Now, if the tabletop greens were reshaped and restructured, or if there were more difficult rough and hazards put into play, we might be talking. If that's so, let me know. If not, just adding distance isn't going to do the trick. That, too. And, you'd be surprised at how much difference 400 yards over an 18-hole course can make...extra distance brings hazards into to play, removes being able to cut-off a dogleg, and makes it a bit more difficult leaving longer approach shots to greens (less loft/spin to get balls to hold greens, etc...). Narrower fairways, deeper rough, faster greens...then add in the extra yardage...can make a golf course MUCH more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) That, too. And, you'd be surprised at how much difference 400 yards over an 18-hole course can make...extra distance brings hazards into to play, removes being able to cut-off a dogleg, and makes it a bit more difficult leaving longer approach shots to greens (less loft/spin to get balls to hold greens, etc...). Narrower fairways, deeper rough, faster greens...then add in the extra yardage...can make a golf course MUCH more difficult. It also changes sight lines and if you play, you know that is key to everything in scoring. Changed site to sight because im an idiot. Edited May 14, 2012 by sixcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie07 11 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 That averages out to what, a whopping 22 yards per hole? For a pro, that's the difference between using a 5-iron and using an 6-iron, am I right? Even if some holes were lengthened by as much as 40 yards, a PGA Tour player should be able to hit the green on a 450-yard Par 4. Now, if the tabletop greens were reshaped and restructured, or if there were more difficult rough and hazards put into play, we might be talking. If that's so, let me know. If not, just adding distance isn't going to do the trick. Just because it's "local" doesn't mean that it's that difficult when compared to other courses elsewhere. As far as PGA-level courses go, it's easily bottom 1/4. It's the same point I try unsuccessfully to drive home to the homers on the high school board when I say that that "INSERT TALENTED REGION II SCHOOL HERE" is a 2-touchdown favorite over "INSERT REGION IV SCHOOL WITH GAUDY RECORD BUT AWFUL SOS". 1.) See what GMan and sixcat have said about the renovations. 400 yards can be serious lengthening and, yes, 20-40 more yards on a hole can make a legitimate birdie hole into one of the hardest holes on the course. The greens are also brand new and they are firm, fast, and far from flat. 2.) Nobody is arguing the Old White's difficulty based on locality. The facts are that it played harder than 38 courses on tour last season. Scoring averages do not lie. Justice has put millions into renovating this course and it is easily in the top half on PGA card now at the very worst. Again, if you'd like to go by scoring averages, then it's in the top quarter. Just a random question, though. How closely do you follow golf? Not discounting your views/opinions on whatever you say, I'm just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker 82 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Besides the renovations, wasn't weather a factor in the scoring differences between the two years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_truth 10 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Even for the novice try playing a course at 6300 yards and then try playing it at 6700 and see what a difference it makes....just remember to let me play thru while you are looking for your ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Even for the novice try playing a course at 6300 yards and then try playing it at 6700 and see what a difference it makes....just remember to let me play thru while you are looking for your ball That is true but the Old White now plays at 7,274 yards with a slope and rating of 141 and 75.7. The slope and rating was 129 and 72.1 in 2010 with a length of 6,852 yards. In case you don't understand slope and rating, the rating number is what the USGA has assigned the course as an "average" score for the scratch golfer. The slope is a divisor to add in someone's handicap to determine the number of strokes a player should receive for the particular course. Basically the higher the number, the harder the course. Going from 72.1 to 75.7 is HUGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 That would equate to about 14 shots in a four round tournament for a scratch golfer... 2010 winning total...258 2011 winning total...270 Sounds about right... sixcat...I know golf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coacher 10 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think they should play a PGA event at the Gary Country Club. Talk about pool table size greens. Also the water hazards include Copperheads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I think they should play a PGA event at the Gary Country Club. Talk about pool table size greens. Also the water hazards include Copperheads. LOL!!! That course is too tough to tame at 2,062 yards and par 31... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 That would equate to about 14 shots in a four round tournament for a scratch golfer... 2010 winning total...258 2011 winning total...270 Sounds about right... sixcat...I know golf... I thought you might. Don't you or didn't you at one point run the BRJGT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I was with the BRJGT until this year...L11's dad still runs the events... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I was with the BRJGT until this year...L11's dad still runs the events... Gotcha. We have had several kids play in those events over the years. It seems to be dwindling a little over the past couple of years for local participation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie07 11 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Besides the renovations, wasn't weather a factor in the scoring differences between the two years? Yes. At the 2010 Classic it rained Thursday, Friday, and absolutely poured all night Saturday. It only rained for about 20 minutes on Sunday at the 2011 Classic. No rain and vast improvements to the layout of Old White = 14 shot difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Gotcha. We have had several kids play in those events over the years. It seems to be dwindling a little over the past couple of years for local participation. Higher gas prices and less disposable income has some to do with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixcat 2,922 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Higher gas prices and less disposable income has some to do with that... Maybe some but here, its success with basketball and football. All the 10 year old kids that were playing golf two years ago are now playing basketball and football. It's a popularity thing and winning changes perspective. It will be hard for anyone to duplicate Eddie Hanks and Jon Alouf graduating in a few weeks with 5 state championships rings each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 True. Both of those kids played on the BRJGT, at one point or another. Good to see them have that kind of success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend11 32 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I was with the BRJGT until this year...L11's dad still runs the events... Ha, I can confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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