everyone , please read...thanks

[tom 10]

if you were as disgusted with the field conditions as much as i was, at this weeks Sloppy Six, i urge you to call the WVSSAC and speak to or ask to speak to Mr Hayden and atleast let someone know that a repeat of the last cpl yrs sloppy games will not be tolerated or supported by the fans..its a disgrace..the number to the WVSSAC is as follows..(304) 485-5494..if your team won or lost, i urge you to speak out on this matter b/c the location is up for vote again this yr..let them know how you feel, and if you're interested in any of Haydens thoughts on this issue read his ridiculous remarks in the BDT about the location...we neeed to make some noise and be heard

[hossy 10]

I've gotta say this again.......I may be in the minority, I may be the only one here with this thinking, don't really care but...........IT'S FOOTBALL! One thing that has always seperated football from baseball, tennis, etc., is that, other than lightning or some other weather phenomana that would be harmful to the fans and players, when kickoff time came, you PLAYED. Are you suggesting that playoff games should only be played on sunny days, dry fields, in pristene conditions? Puhhhleeeaazee don't tell me that your one of the "play 'em all at Laidley field" supporters. If that's your argument then I'm not EVEN going to dignify that with my reasons why high school teams........for that matter ANY teams, shouldn't be exiled to the carpeted concrete because the ground is soggy. I know that your going to say that the title should be decided by the team's athletic abilities and not the weather but when you open this Pandora's box, where do you stop? Do we say that they don't play if the temperture is below X degrees? Do we play in rain but not snow? Do we play if it's only been raining for 1 day but not 3? Let's just get it over with and build a dome for the playoffs.

 

Edited to say: I only just now read the article in the BDT after I had posted this. So I guess you are in favor of all playoff games being played on Astrocrete. OK then, as I said above......end of discussion. Oh, and I guess it goes without saying that I didn't find Hayden's comments "ridiculous" in the least.

[tom 10]

glad to hear you agreed with Hayden, puts your post into better perspective for me,i agree the games should be played in the elements..3 games in 24 and 4 inches of mud isnt the 'elements', its a disgrace to WVHS athletics..if that field was in that condition for a playoff game do you think they would allow it to happen at that site?..no way, it would ever take place ,so why is it not ok for a playoff game but fine for the showcase of WVHS sports?..get real, the game neeeds to be moved if for no other reason than the conditions cannot stand up to that kind of beating by 3 games in 24 hrs...PERIOD

[ThaSpectacle71 10]

By the time the Single A game was played the area of the field that was grass was much less than the area covered by mud......something should definitely be done or the games will be mud wrestling struggles for some time to come or even worse..someone is gonna get really hurt.

[mvfan26 10]

No disrespect to anyone else meant, but there are a few good reasons why the supersix should be played in good conditions.

 

1. The purpose of the designated site for the supersix is not meant to give any participating team an advantage over their opponent, but alot of people have either overlooked this point or just ignored it, but if you notice not all teams play the style of football that prospers in a mudhole. I mean for example a team like Bluefield relies heavily on their speed on offense and defense to win games for them, where a team like Poca who claims to be the same way clearly isn't they are more of a smashmouth team that relies more on overpowering their opponents. Now who do you think the mud gave an unfair advantage to? I'm not sayong Poca didn't deserve to win, because if I were it would be a lie, but I am saying the conditions of Wheeling did hurt Bluefield's style of football more so than Poca's.

 

2.Another reason the supersix should be played in good field conditions is, because there are college scouts that attend the games looking at these kids, and when they have to play in a mudhole they really don't get to show just how good they really are. In most that have the weather we have at this time of year elect to play their championship games on turf, because even in wet conditions it still allows a player to show more of their ability than playing in a mudhole does.

 

3. 1 more point it's unfair to force a team that has relied heavily on their speed in just about every game they've played to expect them to change their style of play , because of field conditions. I mean if you're going to do that you might as well make up a rule and say no team is allowed to play a style of football that relies on their speed advantage to win games.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I had already written a response to the post but hadn't finished it before reading the article over supper, after reading it, much of what was written was what I had written. Martinsburg, a strong passing team, couldn't pass in the aaa game, and extra points were factors in the aa and a games, and bluefield's speed on d, d being their strength this season, was neutralized.

I agree that ssac executive director mike hayden's comments were off, to quote,

"I subscribe to the john madden theory, that it's meant to be played in bad weather. Let's see what you can do."

And,

"people say, it effects this team or that team and as coaches you have to learn to adjust, just like you have to learn to adjust in life."

My thoughts are, well this isn't life it's sports, and sports are supposed to be fair, otherwise don't even have the competition.

The pro bad weather john maden people say it's equal for each team and the results are usually close games which are fun for the fans. A lot of neutral fans in wv are saying this was 1 of the best super6s ever, with all 3 games very close and determined in the last minutes of the 4th quarter. But this isn't an all star game played for the fans enjoyment, it's played to determine which team is the best.

Conditions like those in wheeling equalizez the competition much more, but title games are played to determine which teams "aren't" equal.

Factors beyond the players control should not be factors in the games to such a degree that a team can't use their strengths and advantages.

Is it any surprise that the coaches or fans of the teams that were victorious have had no complaints?

Pdot, wrote in another post that poca's coach lemley is a humble coach who is a good guy, and although I don't know him, I believe that, and he seems to be an affable guy, and is certainly a good coach. But to quote coach lemley in this article he said,

"You play the hand you're dealt."

Simple enough, but just a thought to consider on whether or not he really agrees with that as much as he says. In every h game poca has had through the '02 and '03 seasons, poca had their h playoff games at laidley in charleston, on turf, all except for 1 game that is. Isn't it ironic that when faced with mt. view's speed in the semi final game, they suddenly determined to play that game at their stadium in poca, in muddy conditions.

Lemley is doing what's best for his team, I can't fault him for that in the least, I respect a coach that does everything possible to be victorious within the rules. Even so, my guess is there's much more to it that the teams and fans from the teams that might have gained advantages from these situations would prefer to admit.

[mvfan26 10]

I agree I think Lemley knows that he gained an advantage with the field conditions in Wheeling, but like anyone else he's too smart to admit to it. When he was asked why he chose not to play Mount View at Laidley Field he gave bogus answers to that question every time. Anyone from this area that was familiar with Mount View would tell you the reason was due to MV's speed, but Lemley made it out like he was just preparing his team to play in grass at Wheeling, and the Poca fans all tried to say the reason the game was played at Poca is because at Laidley the school had to give part of their profits from the game to Capital High School or the owner of Laidley Field. I mean we all know those were bogus excuses that don't hold water, because if what the Poca fans claim to be the reason, I'd like to know why they played Ravenswood there the week before? The SSAC won't do anything about the matter, but the field conditions at Wheeling during just about every supersix has given certain teams an unfair advantage over their opponents. Another Mr.Hayden should ask John Madden why it is that the Superbowl in the NFL and the National Championship game/s in the NCAA are always played in good weather states?

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

That was obvious to me about mt. view and laidley's turf mvfan. and that is something to consider, they don't have the superbowl in buffalo or green bay do they?

[SW_VA_boy 492]

I remember quite a few super bowls in cold weather states and in bad weather no less... I don't care what excuses people come up with, playing in the weather is part of football. I mean, college games are played in mud also. If a recruit is there to watch a particular player, 99% of the time they've already seen a lot of tape on the kid. And where will it end??? Every team in the country thats worth anything will have to win at least one game in incliment conditions through out the year. Another point, for example you got a pass happy team that got there with great speed on the outside and throwin it deep but can't win the state title because of a torn up field then they don't deserve it anyway because they weren't a complete team that was able to do whatever it took to win at the time. If you're worried about tearing up the field bad enough, then have the games split up like in VA and got with that. I've been to 3 state title games at Ladley (watching Peterstown back in the early 90's) in Chareston and personally I would like to see a mudbath than a game played on concrete anyday. Also, why in the hell do you wanna make a team play the biggest game of their life on a surface they've never played on before??? That concept alone boggles my mind.

[tom 10]

the concept of not understanding a simple fact is what boggles my mind..look at this way..yes, both teams play on the same field in the same conditions, however, it should be blatantly obvious that 3-4 inches of mud will favor a slower more hard nosed run it at ya kinda running team than a speed and burst off the corners type of team..its a no brainer, secondly a team that has any type of passing game is at a disadvantage b/c of the footing, the timing of pass patterns and simple fact of a muddy, wet ball..thirdly, faster, quicker Defenses are at a disadvantage b/c they have to react to the way the opposing Offense goes, so footing is more at a premium for a D b/c the O pretty much already knows the way its going, so there is no way you can justify teams havign to play in slop..none, and a far as laidley field goes they had the turf replaced 2-3 yrs ago with the turf from Northwestern Univ and although its still the old turf, its much much improved, ive been on the field probably 50 times in the last 2 yrs and it seems to be very good and the semi-pro team that im affiliated with says that the turf is soft and better than usual turf, so why not play it here in Charleston?..common sense should take over in this decision, and the conditions are just one of many, many arguments for a change of venue

[ghs73 157]

a possible solution is do like va does and hold each title game in a different location like single a is at jmu 2 is at liberty university and 3 a is at richmond university the could play the title games at local college stadiums if they would let them that way would not be as hard on one field. just a thought and i realize that it might not work in the wv system.

[ghs73 157]

the one down side to turf is that a few teams i think in wv play on turf so if they were to be in a playoff against a team that plays on grass then they would have a advantage because they play on turf and it does make a difference if you are use to it or not different ways of cutting on turf compared to grass. so the advantage to a team that has played on turf.no matter how you do it one team could have a advantage over another team because of field conditons like higher grass or a wet field.

[ghs73 157]

tom i agree with you on some points about 4 inches of mud. but take the graham gretna game gretna is a super fast team and graham is fast but not as fast as gretna is and it was muddy at mitchell stadium on sat, with some snow. gretna was able to run and throw the ball in that game the mud and snow and cold did not hurt them other than not scoring 50 points in the game but they did what they had to to win and win they did over a very good graham team i agree about not playing a game in 4 inches of mud or snow but also i think it is not fair to a team to play on turf in a big game when they had never played on it before a ezample is the 2001 2a state title in va at liberty with graham and harrisonburg graham had never been on turf and harrisonburg had and graham players had a hard time adjusting to the turf so it was not a game that pitted the skills of both teams in a fair way but in va that was where we had to play and play the game they did it would be hard to make a game this time of year as even as possible as far as field conditions go to be fair to everyone and that includes playing on turf. but this is just my opinion. something needs to be done but games are played in the rain all year long during the regular season and some teams are better suited to rain and others to dryer conditions and the regular season games do mean something they count to the playoffs so in football the weather plays a part in the game and teams do have to adjust their style to the conditions but 4 inches of mud is a little to much to ask of any team but so is astro turf to other teams.i do not know what the solution is but playing on turf is not the way to go unless they let the teams practice on the turf during the week leading up to the game so they can get use to the turf.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

 

"I remember quite a few super bowls in cold weather states and in bad weather no less..."

 

Which games?

 

"for example you got a pass happy team that got there with great speed on the outside and throwin it deep but can't win the state title because of a torn up field then they don't deserve it anyway because they weren't a complete team that was able to do whatever it took to win at the time."

 

So if conditions in a game were so bad that gretna for example weren't able to pass at all, and the game was reduced to a ground game only and gretna was defeated, you would not consider them a complete team? How is the team that has more options and more weapons not the more complete team?

Would you consider a qb of the team that only has a ground game a more complete qb than the qb of the passing team, who hands the ball and passes exceptionally well?

Every team has a ground game, some better than others, but few teams in high school really pass well.

So it's really a matter of the more complete team not being able to play their complete game, because of factors out of their control.

 

"personally I would like to see a mudbath than a game played on concrete anyday."

 

If you personally were a player who had 4.4 speed, would you rather play in the mud or in good conditions?

That said, I'm not for turf either. Really only moving the season up would do which would never be a consideration.

But I will say this, I was surprised that mitchell stadium actually was in much better condition that than wheeling's stadium.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

"gretna is a super fast team and graham is fast but not as fast as gretna is and it was muddy at mitchell stadium on sat, with some snow. gretna was able to run and throw the ball in that game"

 

But gretna would not have been able to pass at wheeling's stadium on sat.

[hossy 10]

I can agree with the fact that all three (A, AA, AAA) games shouldn't be held at the same site on the same weekend. I will give you that. That being said, what is your "solution"? Yes or no, are you saying that all WV title games should be played at Laidley or on some other site with artificial surface?

[ThaSpectacle71 10]

As bad as Wheeling was..I'd be willing to give any site a chance. I'd even choose Mt. View's field on a rainy day over that slop last weekend...

[SW_VA_boy 492]

My point is a state champ can run the football when the conditions warrant it. And if a team deserves a state title, then they'll make the proper adjustments on defense to get the win. Pure and simple. If you want, petition the proper people to have the state title games moved to Johnson City, TN too so you can stay out of the cold while your at it. And yes I threw JC out there just to make a point.

[tom 10]

unlike Wheeling Island Stadium, your point does'nt hold water

[SW_VA_boy 492]

1) How about the Super Bowl's in the cold weather cities. Albeit, in domes and also Super Bowl IX in New Orleans between Steelers and Vikings. How about Palo Alto in January of 85 between 49ers and Dolphins and the fog.

 

2) No. I don't consider them a complete team because they weren't able to do what they needed to when they needed it in order to get the job done. For example, '96 Florida and '93 Florida St. won NC's with mainly "throw'em deep" big play offfenses. However, they were able to run the ball when needed, especially FSU with William Floyd.

 

3) It doesn't matter what kinda speed I got because I'm not outthere to win individual awards. It's what my team can do that important.

 

My suggestion is find a dome or quit complaining.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

"No. I don't consider them a complete team because they weren't able to do what they needed to when they needed it in order to get the job done."

 

You don't seem to ackowledge that we're considering an outside force dictating that 1 strength can be used, and the other can't. It would be 1 thing if it was the other team's d that prevented a team from being able to pass.

 

"It doesn't matter what kinda speed I got because I'm not outthere to win individual awards. It's what my team can do that important"

 

Isn't your speed as a player a big factor in how much you can contribute to your team's success?

[tom 10]

you cant really be as silly as your posts make you sound..can you?

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I believe a good point was made in the fact that all three Super-Six games should not be played in the same site; there is a difference to me in havin' a good, muddy slugfest between two teams and havin' a field in which it is dangerous to walk across.

If this sounds like a crackpot idea, please disregard it; if not, proceed along. Three of the best fields in West Virginia are Wheeling Island Stadium, Laidley Field, and Mitchell Stadium. There are A, AA, and AAA classes in West Virginia. I think it may be for the benefit of West Virginia (in revenue, also, by makin' more money in 3 towns and 3 stadiums than in just 1), to hold the championship games rotating between each of those stadiums next year (i.e. A-Bluefield, 2004; A-Charleston, 2005; A-Wheeling, 2006; A-Bluefield, 2007, and so on). I'd like to throw this idea out for discussion, to see how it is viewed.

[tom 10]

there are actually some very nice HS fields around the state, ie, Parkersburg etc etc but it would be ok to rotate them every yr but you still cannot play all the games on a grass field, so maybe the A game at Wheeling, AA game at Parkersburg, AAA at Laidley..even that will not happen but there is still alot of options available but the SSAC is not gonna split the games, but id be all for rotating them every yr or 2 like Marshall one yr, Laidley, Mountaineer field, Parkersburg or even Mitchell stadium..lots of options and anything is better than the current system

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

There's lots of reasonable ideas, as well as sites willing to make the best of such opportunities, the problem is no one is listening.

It's much like the va. classification and playoff systems, quite flawed and everyone knows it, but they don't seem to have any real intentions of doing anything to make the situation better.

The best idea so far is to rotate the games between sites, with different classification title games at different locations. But that is the least likely to be considered of all. The ssac seems to prefer having the games packaged as a weekend of fun and spending for all at their desired site.

That said, the way I see it in situations like this, you can either do 2 things, ignore the situation and say oh well, and in doing so you expect the situation again, or for it to only get worse, or you can attempt to do something about it. Which dictates people complain and attempt to make the situation better. Complaining without action or ideas doesn't accomplish anything.

Just some thoughts for people who say enough about all this, move on. Some situations are what people make them.

Are there any active petitions being written?