sandman 13 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I think we have misdagnosed the ailment that afflicts Salem, you have to look at it from thier side. In 1992 they were on a quest. A quest that began in 1988 when the Spartans slithered down from the ranks of AAA to "educate the lesser people" on how to play football. Being as yet unsuccessful, 1992 was their best chance of "finding the Grail". With only a backwater town, and a backwater school, Richlands, in thier way to recach the "promised land". Low and behold the teams took the field, the game was played and when the issue was decided, the Blues had won, vanquishing all hope of the Spartans of finally crowning themselves the conquerors. After the game the "watering the field issue" and "cleatgate" started, for how could the Gods themselves turn agains the Spartans? This had to be the work of outside agencies, not the actions of the other team (Richlands). For how could anyone stand up and resist the Spartan juggernaught. You see friends and neighbors, Saturday will be the Odyssey to 1992's Iliad. For twelve long years the young have heard of how the might of Salem was done down by the underhanded dealings of "those people". Fathers have told sons, brothers have told younger siblings. Even Mike Stephens and WDBJ are involved in keeping the legend alive. Friday night not ten minutes after the regional final was won, "watering the field" came up in an interview with the present Salem players. I'm sure that Coach Meganbauer will give them the speech about all the Salem players that worked so hard that year only to go to Richlands and have the dream of the State Title sunk in a mud hole. So there will be more that just a game played on Saturday, at least for the Salem players that know the story (and that wil be all of them by game time on Saturday). If the Spartans win they avenge a blemish on their journey that began more than a decade ago. If they fail, they will be banished for a further time to reflect on how the water-god has once again, betrayed them. In thier eyes the're playing for two teams.........two championships, one that was stolen and one as yet unclaimed. After all don't you get the impression that they think the State Title is their...right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hammer...nail...head! A most excellent post Sandman!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD4VT 11 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Excellent post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Tornado 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 nicely done sandman !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cola 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ouch, you gonna hurt someones feelings, AAAHHHHhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHS89 77 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 To explain the reason that western Virginia fields are muddy this time of year one needs to understand the difference between our weather and weather in other areas. Nights this time of the year are almost always below freezing, and most of the time well below. Any rain that falls is usually followed by nights of freezing temps. Water/mud on a field freezes at night and the temp the next day usually spends a few hours above freezing which is not enough to let any moisture dry or soak in. The result is that game times of early afternoon fall in the few hours that the field thaws, hence soft mud. Weather farther east allows fields to stay thawed more allowing more drying and absorbtion. We do not water fields down. And besides, Richlands has great speed, I would think that they want a dry field as much as anyone. A muddy track is of no advantage to anyone in this game. As far as "cleat gate", it was a terrible chapter in SWVA sports, and as much as it hurts, and as long as others choose to remind, Richlands must live with it. You cannot control what happened back then, you can only control the image that you but forth now and in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your interpretation of "the Salem mentality" is so far off base I hardly know where to begin. I'll start with the "slithered down" comment. Salem didn't and doesn't slither anywhere. After many years of playing AAA ball with AA numbers ( at one time we were down to around 680 students)Salem's administration decided to compete in the AA ranks where we belonged (student population wise). If football were the only determining factor we, in all probability would still be playing AAA. Compare this to Pulaski County, a SW Virginia school who applied for AA status the first year they were eligable. Did they "slither"? 1992 was not Salem's best chance of "finding the Grail". We played Hampton in 1986 for the state title in AAA. Richlands was a regional game, not a state championship. Your discription of Richlands being a backwater is just that, your description, not ours. That's one of the glaring flaws in your "interpretation". Before the 92 game people in Salem had the upmost respect for Richlands and it's hardnosed football program. I remember watching Richlands in a jamboree and commenting about what a great team they had and that was pre 92. My memory isn't what it used to be but I think that jamboree was in Salem Stadium. I attended the 92 contest. After the game my opinion of Richlands had not changed. I thought you had the best back we'd seen all year. I couldn't understand why your guys seemed to get better traction but again my opinion hadn't changed. Until we were exiting the stadium. That's when some of your more inebriated fans began throwing snowballs from the stands and hitting Salem fans. Years later one of your posters on the VA Preps board bragged about his snowball throwing feats that day. Backwater? I have never been one to accuse Richlands of watering the field. Even G-Man will tell you that. I am a firm believer that football is a "tough sport, played by tough men, under tough conditions". My son played for Willis White, started three years and was a team captain on the team that persued the Grail in a quagmire at Tazewell against Grundy and finally "found the Grail" on an extremely muddy field at Victory Stadium against Sherando. After dennis vaught fessed up Salem never asked for the game to be forfieted. They asked that VHSL vacate the title for that year. We didn't want to be named state champions nor did Orange. I've said it all along and I'll repeat slowely for you people who obviously have a hard time understanding. dennis vaught cheated, he admitted he cheated and in doing so he cheated your kids and ours. Many people from your neck of the woods understand that, obviously you do not! No, my misguided friend, Salem doesn't consider anyone we play "lesser people" to the contrary Salem has always been a "blue coller" town. We play pretty hardnosed football here too. Ask the G-Man about the game in Salem Stadium when Glen Carlock brought his juggernaut to town the last time. As a matter of fact that might be the reason G-Man walks around with that huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to Salem and the reason he encourages the kind of unadulterated horse manure that you posted. I'll be there Saturday. If Richlands prevails you won't hear an excuse from me. If the shoe is on the other foot, will you do likewise? GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 hmmm...as a Grundy fan...the true irony that is involved here is that Grundy's last legit shot at State (before this season)involves both these teams...lol. Richlands - "Kneegate" Salem - "Fieldgate" As for Cleatgate...I can see why you guys think the way you do...but I also think your version of what happened is screwed up in saying they watered down the field...plus these kids playing today shouldn't have to bare the weight of a coach and a team that are no longer even involved with the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] No, my misguided friend, Salem doesn't consider anyone we play "lesser people" to the contrary Salem has always been a "blue coller" town. We play pretty hardnosed football here too. Ask the G-Man about the game in Salem Stadium when Glen Carlock brought his juggernaut to town the last time. As a matter of fact that might be the reason G-Man walks around with that huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to Salem and the reason he encourages the kind of unadulterated horse manure that you posted. [/ QUOTE ] Salem, a "blue coller" town? HOGWASH!!! Its a friging suburb of Roanoke where all the "white collar" rich folks live! Ask anyone from Roanoke, they will tell you the truth! As for the last time "Glen Carlock brought his juggernaut to town", it was 1993 and Salem "slithered" away with a win, 7-6, thanks to a botched PAT and some very forgiving officiating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Lance, I'm not sure about the first part of your post i.e. Fieldgate, Kneegate but the last part of your post is dead on! Those in Salem who talk about "watering" don't know what they're talking about, period. I played against Grundy back in the 60s with Andrew Lewis. I remember it raining so hard it washed out the road and we had to go back to Salem on a different road. I watched our kids play your kids in 96 at Tazewell. That field was in just as bad shape as Richlands in 92, maybe worse. That was one of the best high school football games I've ever seen. Our center dislocated his knee, came out for one series and re-entered. We only blocked that big tackle of yours once all day and that was the difference. My son was a captain on that team. GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your asking people from Roanoke about Salem is like asking Michael Moore about "W". Salem does have some high dollar neighborhoods but that is a relatively recent occurence. For years Salem was a mill town, a General Electric town, a blue coller town. I grew up here, I know. We used to think Patrick Henry was the rich kids. Keep setting up that straw man if you must but get your facts straight. Come tour East Bottom or South Salem sometime you may change your mind. By the way I was referring to the team that Glen brought in here that was undefeated, unscored on and mentioned on ESPN. I guess you'll use the refs for an excuse on that one too. Damn my boy you're starting to sound like what you accuse Salem of sounding like! LOL GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Fieldgate...grundy had home field and you guys complained to the VHSL until it was moved...only to be drenched in what has to be one of the worst storms this area has ever seen...that game was pure nasty. As for Kneegate, a certain coach had instructed kids to take out the knees of the Grundy kids...an assistant coach from the program had some class and later spilled the beans and with lawsuits pending the Richlands coach was sent packing...or at least thats how the legend goes....Grundy came in to that game against Salem missing several key players including a limping QB. BTW...the "big tackle" was none other than Grundy's favorite son/current line coach and VT blocker Luke Owens. That was one of the best games I have ever seen also, if you ever wanted to film a nasty game for a movie...that would have been the one...there was litterally ankle deep water on the field flowing like a creek to the sideline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 P.S. G-Man, friggin has two gs and Salem is an independent city. GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I wish Salem had that much influence with the VHSL, wittness the "cleatgate". I think the VHSL didn't want a repeat of the 92 field. I agree with you I don't think the Grundy field could have been any worse. We didn't get it changed though. VHSL reps. looked at the field, I'm told. The VHSL is worthless. Luke Owens, that's it! I had a senior moment. One hell of an athlete, State Champion wrestler too wasn't he? GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD4VT 11 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] After dennis vaught fessed up Salem never asked for the game to be forfieted. They asked that VHSL vacate the title for that year. We didn't want to be named state champions nor did Orange. I've said it all along and I'll repeat slowely for you people who obviously have a hard time understanding. dennis vaught cheated, he admitted he cheated and in doing so he cheated your kids and ours. Many people from your neck of the woods understand that, obviously you do not! [/ QUOTE ] I don't think anyone is saying the cleat incident didn't happen, but Dennis Vaught no longer even lives in Richlands. Why do Salem fans, media and even players need to keep bringing it up? The kids on this team were 4-6 years old in 92. As for watering the field....It's not even worth discussing. It never happened...Salem fans who think it did are fools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Your post is dead on. The G-Man seems to be the one who keeps bringing it up along with Sandman. This all started on the VA Preps board. The player you refer to was asked a leading question by a reporter intent on making an issue out of history. The kid answered with some off the wall stuff he's heard from idiots here in Salem. You're right these kids were 4and 5 years old in 92 they shouldn't have to bear the burden of the past. GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cola 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Thank you 333, from one football father to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance 228 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] I wish Salem had that much influence with the VHSL, wittness the "cleatgate". I think the VHSL didn't want a repeat of the 92 field. I agree with you I don't think the Grundy field could have been any worse. We didn't get it changed though. VHSL reps. looked at the field, I'm told. The VHSL is worthless. Luke Owens, that's it! I had a senior moment. One hell of an athlete, State Champion wrestler too wasn't he? GO SALEM GO MULES [/ QUOTE ] Actually I think the "official" reason the game was moved concerned visitor side seating at Grundy...which has since been corrected....and yes it was moved after salem "requested" it be moved. If Salem had not objected to the game being at Grundy, that's where it would have been played....which as you said, would probably not been any worse than Tazewell considering how it played out with the weather. The problem was with the field, Salem just used the visitor side stands as a vehicle to get the game moved. and yes, Luke was a great wrestler as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Tornado 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I was born in Roanoke, lived about a mile away from Lakeside amusement for 12 years. I moved to Richlands when I was 12 years old. I still have family and friends in Roanoke. I graduated in 89, long before the "cleatgate" game was played. But, even this past week during Thanksgiving, I still had to answer questions about it from friends that now live in Salem. It gets old, I have no explaination for the cleats. But, when they mention watering the field......that's crazy. Didn't we bring a helicopter in to try and dry the field before the game? I didn't actually see it, just heard about one. Sorry about the life history lesson there fella's.....just venting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yes, I know. And "coller" is spelled "collar" and "Glen" is spelled "Glynn"...don't forget the method to my madness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Your post is dead on. The G-Man seems to be the one who keeps bringing it up along with Sandman. This all started on the VA Preps board. The player you refer to was asked a leading question by a reporter intent on making an issue out of history. The kid answered with some off the wall stuff he's heard from idiots here in Salem. You're right these kids were 4and 5 years old in 92 they shouldn't have to bear the burden of the past. [/ QUOTE ] NO! "This" was brought up by Mike Stevens and FFE. There was no mention of water or cleats until the end of the game Friday after the Region III title game. When a legitimate media figure shoves a microphone in front of an 18 year old, and asks him questions about the history of the two teams, that's when you drag the "water and cleats" out of the closet. As for bearing the burden of the past. You can't let the player's bask in the glory of Salem Football without also involving them in the dissappointment. Success and failure are two sides of the same coin. And that means everyone, victory on Saturday produces collective euphoria for all Salem players/fans and defeat will produce a collective feeling of gloom. It is seen, not by the players, but the people that are involved in Salem Football year after year, that there is unfinished business in Richlands that was started twelve years ago and continues to this day. The players change year to year but the people that surround the Salem Football Program (financial boosters, school administration, and the local media) act as if they are on some sort of quest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
333 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ol boy you're full of it. If Salem loses Saturday we'll take it and go on. We've lost before, granted, not as much as you have but we've lost. The sun still comes up the world still turns and Salem, VA is still the best place in the world to live. Have a great day my boy and tell dennis we said hi! GO SALEM GO MULES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jham 10 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 to not think that this subject would not come up after both teams won last Friday you would have to be crazy. I believe FFE was trying to make for a good story just like every reporter does. Do not think they should have asked a player about it but that's all right. I always watch FFE but expecially last FRi to see what they said about it. I knew they would and probably everyone else knew it would be brought up. The things that went on will alway be two sided. Salem fans are going to have their stories some worse than others and Richlands will always have thier stories of the whole situation. Both teams fans will always stand behind their players, coaches and town. That makes a good fan. As for now this will be the talk until SAT ant 1:30 When the ball is kicked off everyones mind will be on the game. may the best team win GO Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 "If Salem loses Saturday we'll take it and go on." You haven't been able to swallow the loss from twelve years ago. Look at how the representatives of your community act when the memory comes to mind (on television no less). What makes you think you'll be able to handle the dejection this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD4VT 11 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 [ QUOTE ] Ol boy you're full of it. If Salem loses Saturday we'll take it and go on. We've lost before, granted, not as much as you have but we've lost. The sun still comes up the world still turns and Salem, VA is still the best place in the world to live. Have a great day my boy and tell dennis we said hi! GO SALEM GO MULES [/ QUOTE ] For the record, Sandman is a Blufield Beaver supporter. Apparently he and others like him are just as sick of hearing about cleats and fire trucks as Richlands fans are. And as I mentioned in an earlier post "Dennis" does not live in Richlands. He's not even a football coach anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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