tvp 10 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 This came up in a previous post so I thought it might be a fun question to throw out there. Who benefits the most (locally) from the divisional splits in Single A? Thoughts. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 It really doesn't matter...once the D-1 schools from this area get to the State level, they'll be playing schools the size of the D-2 schools from Regions C and D...the system is flawed and always will be as long as the Divisions are split at the Regional level... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvp 10 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very true. I was looking at the enrollments for the schools in Regions A and B and the smallest schools (Division 1) in those regions would be Division 2 in Regions C or D. What I meant by the question, however, was who benefits locally. I would contend Twin Valley (I know that sounds biased) benefits the most in Region D. You think about the schools in Division 2 in the region: Gate City, Virginia High, etc. TV doesn't have to play those schools when they get to the region. Granted, when they get to the state tourney (if they do) it's a whole new world, but would they have gotten that far if not for the division split? And there's where my question comes into play. Who benefits the most (locally) from the divisional splits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VivaFutbol 10 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 No D1 team from C & D will get within 30 points of the Region A or B D1 champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvp 10 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Maybe I didn't make the question clear, I'm not saying that D1 C or D are as good as D1 A or B, that's not the point of the question. I gave the illustration of Twin Valley. They have a good chance of winning the Region D D1. In that illustration, would they be there if they had not split the divisions? Which LOCAL team benefits the most from the divisional splits. I get it--Regions A or B are better than C or D. I get it--that whoever makes it to Richmond probably won't win the championship. I get that. But that's not the point of the question. Which LOCAL team benefits the most from the divisional splits? In other words, who can win and do well in a season when, in any other year, they wouldn't win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobster 20 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 [ QUOTE ] Maybe I didn't make the question clear, I'm not saying that D1 C or D are as good as D1 A or B, that's not the point of the question. I gave the illustration of Twin Valley. They have a good chance of winning the Region D D1. In that illustration, would they be there if they had not split the divisions? Which LOCAL team benefits the most from the divisional splits. I get it--Regions A or B are better than C or D. I get it--that whoever makes it to Richmond probably won't win the championship. I get that. But that's not the point of the question. Which LOCAL team benefits the most from the divisional splits? In other words, who can win and do well in a season when, in any other year, they wouldn't win? [/ QUOTE ] My guess is the concession stands since every school that fields a girls and boys team will be in Regional competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucfan64 307 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Lobster stated it well "the concession stands!" Some would argue that the split was terrible and that it waters things down a bit. On the other hand it did prevent teams from C and D from having to play someone with 800 or 900 students in a state game. If the big fish would stop moving down to the A ranks this would not have been needed. I do think that the current system is not well thought out and I would prefer a 4A or even a 5A system. But I also will say that something needed to be done, many teams were moving down to avoid playing with the BIG DOGS and when a provision is made for small single A schools to do it the complaints get louder. Something needs to be done on a state level and this is quick fix is akin to putting a band aid on an amputated arm. nuff said.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamerball 566 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 [ QUOTE ] On the other hand it did prevent teams from C and D from having to play someone with 800 or 900 students in a state game. [/ QUOTE ] Who has 900 students? Who has 800, other than Lee, who's hovering right around that mark (and they're in Region D)? Just a handful have even 700 or more. Saying that, I agree it needs to be expanded, but hey we couldn't exaggerate our position, the same goes for the rest, haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucfan64 307 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Nandua 717 Clarke Co. 755 Goochland 739 Wilson Memorial 733 Chatham 711 Lee 797 Va. High 700 With the rapid opening of new schools in NOVA there will eventually be some small AA schools with 900 enrollments qualifiying for Single A status. Check out the VHSL website for more info. regarding this FACT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamerball 566 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 [ QUOTE ] With the rapid opening of new schools in NOVA there will eventually be some small AA schools with 900 enrollments qualifiying for Single A status. [/ QUOTE ] They would qualify for single A status...with 900 students???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucfan64 307 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 YEP Due to the fact that these new schools will have larger enrollments than some current Double A schools it would then force the smaller AA schools to move down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper 571 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 NOPE. The "rapid opening of new schools in NOVA" is about 1 per year. Only 2 or 3 new high schools open per year in the state. 6 new schools per 2 year cycle only moves 2 AA's to A. And "many teams were moving down to avoid playing with the BIG DOGS" isn't happening, either. I think only Grundy applied to drop next time around, and we've been eligible a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucfan64 307 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 You are right, there aren't a multitude of schools moving down every year. But to argue that GC, Lee, Virginia High and PV didn't move down due to a competitive disadvantage at the state level is not accurate. Since moving from NOVA in '98 I am aware of a dozen new high schools in the area, two new schools in the county that I once worked. When these schools are created, whether they come in as a AA school or a AAA school it DOES AFFECT SCHOOLS IN SWVA! For example Clark Co., which happens to be a small school in that area, in comparison to schools in SWVA, would be rather large and even AA. Single A schools in SWVA are not expected to beat schools with that enrollment at the regional level but they are expected to compete with them at the state level. When GC, Lee, Va. High and even PV moved down, competition in athletics WAS A MAJOR FACTOR, in their decision (is this not moving down to keep from playing with the big dogs?). It may not have been the only decision, but it was a big part of the decision making process. I do not think that these schools should be criticized for doing so, after all they realized the disparity and how it affected their potential year in and year out to be competitive at the state level. They did what was best for them. Many would argue that since the disparity between them and the rest of the AA schools in Region 1 and 2 was not so great that they should have stayed were they were at, but I do not agree, after all there are some AA schools in NOVA with much larger enrollments. These schools were put in a situation similiar to the current Division 1 Single A schools in SWVA. The facts are schools in region C and D are at a slight and sometimes very large disadvantage when it comes to enrollment and the number of athletes to pick from when compared to Region A and B. (by the way, I am aware that schools from SWVA can and often do compete well with schools from the other two regions, but to expect them to do it on a yearly basis, given the disparity in enrollment is not logical and therein lies the problem) The schools should not be criticized for doing what is best for them, it is the system that is flawed. I suppose that there is no perfect solution and as for now this will have to suffice. Although, I am not happy with the current proposal, I am happy that the the league has done something. If schools in our area that were once considered AA continue to be forced to move DOWN, where do the small schools in our area have go? They do not have an option and are forced to suffer in order to prevent the suffering of our larger schools in SWVA. While one problem appears to be alleviated another one is created. You are right about Grundy, I am an alumni of GSHS and I think that it is admirable that some schools still remain in familiar territory and choose not to be a big fish in a small pond, (Graham comes to mind as well) But, why should they continue to suffer as well?? Elliot, what do you think would be the best solution to the problem? 4A, 5A, 4A with Divisions, etc.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvp 10 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Bucfan said: "For example Clark Co., which happens to be a small school in that area, in comparison to schools in SWVA, would be rather large and even AA. Single A schools in SWVA are not expected to beat schools with that enrollment at the regional level but they are expected to compete with them at the state level." That's a great point! The divisional splits, as I understand it, were supposed to help the smaller schools in Single A to be more competitive, but all it did was create the same problem twice over. You still have the same enrollment ranges in D2 and now there present in D1 (just like football). You look at the breakdown of Regions A and B: Region A Division 2 Division 1 Nandua 717 Mathews 459 Arcadia 694 Franklin 421 King William 632 Rappahannock 384 Washington & Lee 585 Chesterfield Community* 324 Essex 544 Appomattox Regional Governor’s School* 320 Northampton 543 Surry County 295 Windsor 514 West Point 256 Lancaster 494 Charles City 248 Middlesex 468 King & Queen 213 Northumberland 467 Chincoteague* 201 Sussex Central 464 Colonial Beach 185 Region B Division 2 Division 1 Clarke County 755 Nelson County 624 Goochland 739 Manassas Park 618 Wilson Memorial 733 Buffalo Gap 588 Chatham 711 Amelia County 570 Randolph-Henry 694 Page County 566 Buckingham 691 Riverheads 553 Appomattox 683 Central (L) 534 Gretna 681 Jackson, Stonewall (Q) 532 Mason, George 658 Luray 512 Madison County 649 Cumberland 479 Dan River 644 Altavista 464 Strasburg 627 Campbell, William 374 Rappahannock County 341 Compare that to Regions C and D: Region C Division 2 Division 1 Grayson County 656 Galax 330 Floyd County 606 Northwood 329 Glenvar 600 McCluer, Parry 323 Giles 546 Eastern Montgomery 320 Fort Chiswell 510 Holston 293 Henry, Patrick 474 Bland/Rocky Gap 287 Radford 470 Bath County 276 James River 455 Covington 275 Wythe, George 444 Narrows 253 Chilhowie 407 Craig County 225 Auburn 382 Highland* 109 Rural Retreat 352 Pocahontas 108 Region D Division 2 Division 1 Lee 797 Haysi 280 Virginia 700 Pound 274 Gate City 666 Walker, Thomas 250 Battle, John 641 Rye Cove 242 Lebanon 570 Appalachia 241 Powell Valley 518 Twin Valley 239 Kelly, J. J. 505 Twin Springs 237 Honaker 402 Burton, J.I. 223 Coeburn 396 Hurley 202 Clintwood 329 Ervinton 176 Castlewood 308 Saint Paul 156 Council* 140 Most of the schools in Regions A or B D1 (as you can see) would easily be D2 in Regions C or D. And just like Bucfan said: the small schools aren't expected to compete at the regional level, but they are at the state level! the divisional splits solve nothing only to generate more money for VHSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper 571 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I don't like this divisional stuff. My pref. a few years ago was 5A, but now I dont care. The disparity is large enough to support 4A or 5A or even 6A... I don't care how many, just do it already. Tenn. has 5A for 335 schools, WV has 3A for 136 schools & KY just went to 6A for 220 football schools. We have 305 or so ... let's even things out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamerball 566 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Powell Valley was in Group AA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VHSLhelper 571 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 never was; I shoulda caught that. And I'll have to disagee that "competition in athletics WAS A MAJOR FACTOR" fo Lee. I really think it wasn't that big of a deal - their major factor was travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olewave 44 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Kentucky went to 6a this year and 47 % of the teams had a 500 or below record. Including a dozen or more 0-10 and 1-9 teams. What kind of playoff system is that? It creates a little league system where everyone plays and gets a trophy. The only winner in split divisions are the parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamerball 566 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Didn't think they were. I was going to respond to the competition deal but didn't think worth the effort, haha. Honestly though, I never ran into anyone that really seemed to think Lee should move down because of a "competitive disadvantage." I thought they were competing just fine anyway. It probably played a small part, but honestly some schools had other reasons that were the main reasons for dropping. But at lest we can all agree on one thing and that's the expansion in classification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exactstst 10 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I agree tvp, Twin Valley benefits the most. The way I see it they are almost guaranteed to make it to Richmond this year and the next three years. If you can get there anything is possible. Remember the games have to be played to determine a winner. Anyone can have a bad night. We all know the Panthers have consistently played with the big dogs since 2003 and were runner up in the state to Clark who has a 700 + student enrollment. The real downside is that a championship in D1 only means you are the best of the...for a lack of better words...junior league. Why not do like Indiana did until 1997, let everyone contend and if the little guy has the talent to slay the giant then so be it. It wasn't until 1998 that Indiana went to a 4A system. Like a lot of others have stated, it's all about money. In my opinion, on any given night, Twin Valley has the talent to beat Goliath but will never get to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvp 10 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Thought this was a pretty good story from a TV station in Roanoke. Follow this link and you should see a link to click on the left side to watch the story: http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?s=7901150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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