How's Carroll Doing this year? I don't come around much anymore

[CarrollCavs78 10]

So I haven't been keeping up with swva football much this year but just wanting to know how CC looks this year?

 

Saw that they lost to Basset - speed is always an issue

 

Also saw that they lost to Christiansburg - they're always tough, I happen to know the Criner boy on Christiansburg's squad, hopefully he does big things cause I used to be roommates with his brother. UR Spiders season tickets maybe?

 

Now it says that they are 3-4 on the VHSL standings page. But that don't seem right. no way we're on week 7 already.

 

Anywhoo, just looking to see if anyone had some information for me.

 

Thanks,

CC78

 

Oh yeah, how bout them Tarheels?

[Lance 228]

2-2 they beat Tazewell 33-14 last week...and Patrick County 28-27 ...Tazewell is hit and miss this year...but they have a pretty good team, just cant get everything clicking at once it seems.

 

Still not sure what to think about CC...should know more after they play Abingdon, Graham, and Marion...no one gets to see CC until the district games start so we never really know what to expect until 3 or 4 are played.

[CarrollCavs78 10]

Not bad I suppose. Hope those boys do well this season. I was thinking of applying to become a ref for the SWD. My mom makes great home cooked meals.

[vols4life 57]

home cookin in carroll..hmmm...??????????i hope you mean just her cooking in general..lol

[Huntercav 10]

I don't post much on any message-board for the obvious reason of exposing myself to all the "stuff" that gets sent back. You know the stuff about my school is better than yours, did you play-prove it, or the refs are tilted one way or the other (like this thread being potentially hijacked by the tired "stuff" about home-cooking in Carroll County), or the bus ride from Richlands to Hillsville is somehow different than the ride from Hillsville to Richlands and so on and so on. So, I'll wade in by stating: I enjoy reading some of the topics on this board and I appreciate the efforts of the hosts and moderators. I am a Carroll County fan and I have a son on the team. I also coached some of the players on the team when I coached him in recreation ball. They are a great group of kids and work very work, as I am sure most other fans and parents feel the same way about their school of interest. I am no expert on football, or anything for that matter, but I did play at Greenbrier East and Marshall U-doesn't mean a thing really and doesn't credit or discredit me!

 

I have watched the SW District teams compete in all sports since Carroll County joined the district. I've always thought this was a bad district for travel for Carroll and most any team coming to Carroll (this was softened when Abingdon and Marion joined). I have also thought of us as the "step-child" of the district-just don't really seem to fit in geographically and there is no true rival for the Cavs. It is awesome for wrestling, but I've seen more wrestling in football and basketball than I have football or basketball. To suggest that the officiating is worse at Carroll than other schools is simply not true; it's gone down hill everywhere, even at the professional level. I believe the size and speed of the players has made it 3x more difficult than when I played. To suggest that Richlands is somehow hosed each game with Carroll is not even worthy of debate other than to type this: Who won the games? Listen, I love Richlands' scheme and I wish Carroll was more wide-open, but the high reward plays are also high risks plays. Carroll has played hard and played solid for years and has been able to take advantage of the high risks plays. We've still lost so get over yourselves with that drivel. This years game is shaping up to be a classic, so let the kids play it on the field while the rest of us find a way to appreciate their effort as opposed to blaming the players or coaches or God forbid the refs!

 

This CCHS team has more overall speed than in most years. While there are no "superstars," the talent is also above average for the Cavs. We won a "benefit game" over Galax 9-0 to start the season. It was followed by losing at Bassett due to falling behind 14-0 in the first 1:52 of the game (nice, quick drive by the Bengals followed by a CCHS turnover for another quick 7) while breaking in new schemes on both sides of the ball. The O has since added back the TE position and blocking is much better. Missed tackles on D have been the only weakness on that side of the ball. We also pulled out a miracle win over Patrick (50+ yard pass on the last play of the game). C'burg was simply more talented and it 10-7 in the 4th before the cream rose to the top. Tazewell did not play up to their potential and turned the ball over too many times to win on the road. As for the calls, I agree it was horrible, but it was both ways (2 TD's called back on Carroll and a 15 yard penalty somehow before the 2nd half ever started). I've never seen a coach come 20 yards on the field with an expletive lacked tirade and not get tossed. That was probably the worst call of the night not ejecting him! The Dogs are better than their showing that night-period. Carroll should be favored to beat Grayson at home tonight to go 3-2. I see 7-3 and the playoffs for a group that has worked hard enough to earn that finish...

Edited September 25, 2009 by Huntercav

[Guest zeus71]

Its obvious that you have played football before. You can just tell by the way you try to respect everyone because you know what it takes to play (a lot of hard work) too much to be bashing young kids and coaches from any school. Everyone wants to win and everyone gives it there all. And as for the refs they make peanuts as well. Of course there are going to be some questionalbe calls in the course of a season but it is what it is. You should post more often and get some of the homers who are just here to run there ignorant mouths off here. These people have never played, coached and deffinately never reffed. It makes me sick. Its real easy to criticize from the stands but its super easy to criticize while hiding behind a computer. Its really quite cowardly.

[Lance 228]

Nice post Huntercav...you should share more often lol.

 

I think there was a huge problem with the refs at CC before they changed over to using the same ones we had...was that CC's fault? no probably not...but when the refs are seeing CC week in and week out and not the other teams that visit I think they got used to CC's offense and when a team like Richlands or Grundy (who used all kinds of crazy formations) comes to town they see something odd and flag it more easily because it doesn't look right to them...I've seen many flags thrown on Grundy and Richlands for this in doing shifts or motion that they used every week but the same play got flagged at CC but nowhere else...this is the best honest expliantion that I can offer for what was going on. Is that CC's fault? no...do i think CC had the ref's "in their pocket? no....I think it was just the overall situation...either way if you look back at the records, CC's home record was not proportional to their road record by any shot...which you could argue is due to the travel time, but when I was playing I liked getting out of school early and making the long road trips out of Grundy lol, so I tend not to buy in to the whole travel time argument.

 

I don't have any complaints and have not had any since they changed to using the same refs everyone else uses...as long as they do that I think the bad calls go both ways as you said..it sucks that the refs dont let the kids decide the games more and have to call a backside holding call after the play is 80 yards up the field...but it happens...week in and week out...it may be a legit holding, but to me thats still a bad call...there is holding on every play if you look for it...doesnt mean it has to be called...I still say you should let the kids decide the outcome and not the refs.

 

Most of the games I have been to this year there have been what I would call a couple of bad calls each game...no big complaints overall though and it seems to be going both ways.

[Huntercav 10]

Lance,

 

I am with you on your points about officiating in general, but I will offer some facts and an additional theory: Without specific examples, I can make an intelligent reply to your claim that strange calls happened in Carroll County years ago or last week. I can sorta address the theory that wins are not proportional at home versus the road. Home teams win approximately 60% of their games, including in the NFL! Would VT have beaten NE if that game were played in Lincoln? Home-cooking? Doubtful on both accounts, but I digress.

 

Let's look at the facts about CCHS: All-time record 166-239-4 or 41%, so this school has had it's share of losing everywhere and remember that good teams win, period, no matter where they play. Further, our record against the best programs in the SWD (over the time that Carroll has been in the league I think most of us can agree that Graham, Richlands and Grundy have had wonderful long-term programs from the list of original members) is 4-10 with Richlands, 2-13 with Graham, and 9-9 with Grundy. BTW, it's 9-6 with Abingdon; 7-6 with Tazewell; 10-5 with Marion. However, some of the games with Abingdon and Marion were played before they joined the district. So, the aggregate total in district play is a whopping 41-49 or 41%. Now, my degree is from Marshall and it isn't in math, but proportional winning % seems to be in line at roughly 41%. Now if there's some sort of home cooking it's not in those stats, but I'll offer that I don't have the home-away results-just the gross results (pun intended). If Carroll won the average of 60% at home, that would equal 20% on the road!

 

I don't think the home field advantage is imaginary either. It's alive at every level of sports and in every sport. Teams probably really do play better at home; Officials probably get caught up in the crowd noise and emotion and react with flags that they wouldn't otherwise toss. I agree 100% on the overzealous flag throwers of today, but I think a lot of it is the lack of communication. For example: I would have officials tell me to "watch it or that's getting called next time." "Hey #51, keep your hands inside." That's getting late or chippy, watch it." That kind of banter doesn't happen much anymore and it's a shame. Coaches would also ask who a penalty was on and what the player did that drew a flag. Now I see and hear them talk to officials in a manner which indicates that their degrees weren't in public relations! So, some of it is emotion, some of it is the play itself, and some of it is a lack of communication between players/coaches and officials.

 

As to the theory that refs saw CCHS more than other teams and were familar with them and not other teams or formations, maybe? I'll offer one other opinion: Richlands, Graham, and Grundy brought better teams to CCHS through the years than most any other opponents on the schedule-home or away. This district plays a very physical smash-mouth type of ball that I LOVE. It's tough to officiate a game with very talented players because they make the difficult seem easy and the impossible seem like a penalty. There is a natural tendency to think that a player had to have gained some advantage by overachieving when in reality he was really just that good! So, the better players probably did get some "phantom" calls on the road that they wouldn't get at home due to their level of play. In other words, this young man has not been beaten around the outside all year and suddenly he's burned. Was he held? Maybe? More than likely both he and the ref hadn't had a player of that caliber to contain and simply didn't make the play. Now, if the crowd reacts, then their is a tendency to think that a call must have been missed? Bottom line: I don't think a flag should be thrown unless the infraction occurred in the play (not 20 yards off the ball) or an injury could result from the penalty- i.e. chop block. Did the player gain an unfair advantage from his actions should be the litmus test question. So, I don't think formations caused as many flags as better players and pure raw emotion caused?

 

BTW, I recommend that everybody try to watch a game at field level. The play is amplified like you wouldn't believe. After all, that's the level from which the game is officiated at the high school level. Colleges and Pro's have replay booths from above for a reason! I hope your favorite team wins, but most of all I hope young men all over SW Virginia go out and compete to their fullest ability while avoiding the injury bug...

Edited September 25, 2009 by Huntercav

[Lance 228]

the reason i say that is because there were years where CC would win every home game and get beaten badly on the road...one year , dont remember which one without looking, they beat a Graham team that was blowing everyone out and playing some top level schools...there is a post here about the stats on it all...if you looked at the stats it's hard to deny there is a huge home field advantage going on, since the refs change things have been more even at CC by the record...so, draw from that what you will, but to me it proves the point more than we will ever settle on here.

[GMan 3,569]

the reason i say that is because there were years where CC would win every home game and get beaten badly on the road...one year , dont remember which one without looking, they beat a Graham team that was blowing everyone out and playing some top level schools...

 

I don't think it was a Graham team that was blowing everyone out that Carroll Co. beat. Carroll Co. has only beaten Graham two times since CC joined the SWD in 1994...in 2004 at Carroll Co. 28-13 (Graham finished 5-6) and in 2008 at Carroll Co. 47-6 (Graham finished 4-7).

 

I seem to remember them giving Richlands a helluva game during one of Richlands' really good seasons in the recent past.

[GMan 3,569]

Yep...2005...Richlands survived at Carroll Co. 7-6. That was the year Richlands started the season with five straight shutouts and had only given up six points and was 8-0 going in to that game...but Carroll Co. was 7-1 heading into that one...CC lost that one and the next week to Graham (49-7) and then lost to Magna Vista 34-14 in the first round of the playoffs.

[Huntercav 10]

GMan,

 

I just got back from Carroll's lackluster win over Grayson County (25-6), so you beat me to the punch. Thanks for providing facts over perception or myth. I was going to state that there was never a time that Carroll beat Graham when Graham wasn't down-didn't happen. 2-13 with both wins in Carroll and those two wins would have happened on the moon!

 

Lance,

 

I am not trying to settle anything on this forum. Can we simply agree to disagree on this one? The 2005 Richlands game was a GREAT high school football game and another example of one team letting down a little while the other played above their head. Give the coaching staffs and young men some credit for almost pulling off a MAJOR upset instead of advancing theories that Carroll couldn't have stayed in that game without help from the officials. The score was 7-6 for Christ's sake, so it's not like anybody gave Carroll anything and we still lost! We had a great running back (Sam Beasley, who went on to VT) and the ground game played a key role in playing keep away to stay in the game and limit an explosive teams opportunities. I can't remember too many years that we were 5-5 with all the wins coming at home? In the last 15 years, we have finished 5-5 3 times and I count several home losses in all three years-including two last year. So again, I can't find any stat or specific incident to support your position on the topic?

 

BTW, I have PTSD and some cute stories of playing the Bluefield Beavers in Mitchell Stadium 30 years ago. I can't believe the old serpent of a venue is still alive and looking good or better than it did anyway. We only scrimmaged Graham one time (1981) and they were very good and very well coached!

[JamesL_CcLB34 10]

Actually Sam wasn't playing that year he had already graduated because I was a freshman and was on the sidelines for that game and I never played with Sam, Willie Yates was the RB, anyway greatest high school game I think I have seen and it was awesome just to be on the sidelines watching it.

[htg 10]

cchs is doing well this year beat patrick co. tazewell co. and grayson co. lost to bassett and christiansburg

[GMan 3,569]

cchs is doing well this year beat patrick co. tazewell co. and grayson co. lost to bassett and christiansburg

 

Who is Tazewell Co.??? Is that a newly consolidated school??? You know something the rest of us don't know???

[Huntercav 10]

Upon further review, my apologies to Willie Yates. He was the featured back during that season and played very hard and very well throughout the entire season. Also interesting that we had a terrific kicker in Lance Ayers, who I don't remember missing many extra points during his career. I was there and was hoping against hope that we went for two. I don't believe we would have won in OT anyway, but there's always a chance at that point of a game. Play for the tie at home and the win on the road be danged!

[Huntercav 10]

Holy smokes GMan. Give a newbie poster a break. We junior members with 2 or 3 posts are bound to make mistakes that folks with 8,663 posts wouldn't make!

[Hokies4Ever 23]

I was at the Carroll game. Honestly if you all would have made the Extra Point i think you all would have won that game. You all had all the momentum. I didn't even watch the kick because i thought he would split the uprights. I was glad i was wrong when i told the guy beside me that we were going to OT.

[GMan 3,569]

Holy smokes GMan. Give a newbie poster a break. We junior members with 2 or 3 posts are bound to make mistakes that folks with 8,663 posts wouldn't make!

 

8665, thank you...:D