Health Care Bill - Go to the source

[Hacker 82]

The links below will take you to the entire Senate Bill, and the 153 page summary . I am going to be reading them over the next few days, something our elected representatives probably have not done. From this I will draw my own conclusions as to whether the bill is a net benefit to me and mine, or not.

 

If you take the time to read the bill, post your comments to this thread, or use the information to promote understanding of the bill. If you think it is crap or great after reading the bill, at least you will have made up your own mind.

 

As I have said before, I prefer to gather the facts and then draw my own conclusions.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Senate_health_care_bill.pdf

 

http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_hr4872_amndsub.pdf

[Deleted Account 5,203]

The links below will take you to the entire Senate Bill, and the 153 page summary . I am going to be reading them over the next few days, something our elected representatives probably have not done. From this I will draw my own conclusions as to whether the bill is a net benefit to me and mine, or not.

 

If you take the time to read the bill, post your comments to this thread, or use the information to promote understanding of the bill. If you think it is crap or great after reading the bill, at least you will have made up your own mind.

 

As I have said before, I prefer to gather the facts and then draw my own conclusions.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Senate_health_care_bill.pdf

 

http://docs.house.gov/rules/hr4872/111_hr4872_amndsub.pdf

 

The fact that the SUMMARY for this bill is 153 pages should be disconcerting to all...

 

Plus, those who make it their sworn duty to pass these bills aren't even reading the full text. The Congressmen are relying on staffers, not first-hand reading. Given that I read somewhere around 500+ pages/week of dense material, this will be dead last on my list. I'll try to read the summary, IF I can.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I had literally a 2000 word treatise on how I felt about the bill after reading the first 35 pages of it, but when I tried to post it, it got deleted. Here are my abridged thoughts:

 

1. The 153 page "summary" is actually the text of the amendments, which is useless without the bill itself in front of you. So, this point needs to be clarified for anyone who attempts to read this giant.

 

2. Sections 1501-1502 are blatant violations of the 5th Amendment Substantive Due Process right. I mean, it bluntly forces people to get insurance. It cannot be any clearer a violation.

 

3. In the first 35 pages, there are 2 separate violations of the Dormant Commerce Clause. But who needs the Constitution when we've got change, man! Yes we can!

 

4. This bill is going to MURDER the insurance industry. Not only do they have to give back pro rata the unused premiums they take in, they have to do everything in simplistic and "culturally appropriate" terms. Translation: dumb it down and put it in Spanish. Oh, and the pro rata premium returns? That's not only how the insurance providers put bread on their table, that's what would typically protect YOU if you needed to receive more insurance than your premiums would provice. So, prepare for the screwing, America.

 

5. Only ONE good, novel change in the first 35 pages: allowing people to stay on parental insurance until age 26. This is intended to help those like myself get through graduate school without having to take a 2nd job to pay insurance.

 

6. The "only increased taxes for $250K+ families" is a complete LIE. If you make 133% or more of the poverty level, your rates will go up. Page 2 of the Amendments even says that it will. A family making $88K/year, give or take a few thousand, will end up paying the same percentage of premiums as those families making $250K when all is said and done. My family, which makes $57K, should expect to see its premiums TRIPLE from what they currently are. No wonder Anthem's raising my insurance from $188/month to $660/month when these changes take full effect.

 

In short: THIS. BILL. IS. GARBAGE. And I only feel stronger AFTER reading it. I'm sick of trying to find some way to give the Left the benefit of the doubt on things, and reading the bill isn't going to change my opinion on it, and it likely won't change the opinion of any of the fine people on this forum.

Edited March 24, 2010 by UVAObserver

[blueinbama 259]

6. The "only increased taxes for $250K+ families" is a complete LIE. If you make 133% or more of the poverty level, your rates will go up. Page 2 of the Amendments even says that it will. A family making $88K/year, give or take a few thousand, will end up paying the same percentage of premiums as those families making $250K when all is said and done. My family, which makes $57K, should expect to see its premiums TRIPLE from what they currently are. No wonder Anthem's raising my insurance from $188/month to $660/month when these changes take full effect.

 

This bill is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I read parts of it, until my head started spinning uncontrollably. Biden was right about one thing..."This is f***ing BIG". In more ways than one. My health insurance currently costs $80.00 per month (single individual coverage). I spoke with my insurance provider yesterday and they are predicting my coverage cost to increase to around $300.00 per month when these changes are implemented. My company will no longer be able to afford to pay any percentage of my employee's insurance coverage. The company currently pays 50% of the employee premiums, and not only will the premiums increase for the employees, but the 50% contribution will no longer be affordable for my company. The money is just not there. Small businesses will suffer greatly once these changes take place. There will be widespread ramifications to employees of small businesses all across America because of this bill. And Obama talks about "fear mongering"! This proves my fears were 100% justified.

Edited March 24, 2010 by blueinbama

[bucfan64 309]

I had literally a 2000 word treatise on how I felt about the bill after reading the first 35 pages of it, but when I tried to post it, it got deleted. Here are my abridged thoughts:

 

1. The 153 page "summary" is actually the text of the amendments, which is useless without the bill itself in front of you. So, this point needs to be clarified for anyone who attempts to read this giant.

 

2. Sections 1501-1502 are blatant violations of the 5th Amendment Substantive Due Process right. I mean, it bluntly forces people to get insurance. It cannot be any clearer a violation.

 

3. In the first 35 pages, there are 2 separate violations of the Dormant Commerce Clause. But who needs the Constitution when we've got change, man! Yes we can!

 

4. This bill is going to MURDER the insurance industry. Not only do they have to give back pro rata the unused premiums they take in, they have to do everything in simplistic and "culturally appropriate" terms. Translation: dumb it down and put it in Spanish. Oh, and the pro rata premium returns? That's not only how the insurance providers put bread on their table, that's what would typically protect YOU if you needed to receive more insurance than your premiums would provice. So, prepare for the screwing, America.

 

5. Only ONE good, novel change in the first 35 pages: allowing people to stay on parental insurance until age 26. This is intended to help those like myself get through graduate school without having to take a 2nd job to pay insurance.

 

6. The "only increased taxes for $250K+ families" is a complete LIE. If you make 133% or more of the poverty level, your rates will go up. Page 2 of the Amendments even says that it will. A family making $88K/year, give or take a few thousand, will end up paying the same percentage of premiums as those families making $250K when all is said and done. My family, which makes $57K, should expect to see its premiums TRIPLE from what they currently are. No wonder Anthem's raising my insurance from $188/month to $660/month when these changes take full effect.

 

In short: THIS. BILL. IS. GARBAGE. And I only feel stronger AFTER reading it. I'm sick of trying to find some way to give the Left the benefit of the doubt on things, and reading the bill isn't going to change my opinion on it, and it likely won't change the opinion of any of the fine people on this forum.

 

Thanks for the research, I appreciate the efforts!

[bhs7695 185]

This is what a couple of major corporations have said so far. I can't image what pains small businesses are going to go through with around 250 employees.

 

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Farm equipment maker Deere & Co (DE.N) expects after-tax expenses to rise by $150 million this year as a result of the healthcare reform law President Barack Obama signed this week.

 

Most of the higher expense will come in Deere's second quarter, the company said on Thursday. The expense was not included in the company's earlier 2010 forecast, which called for net income of about $1.3 billion.

 

Caterpillar Inc (CAT.N) said on Wednesday it would take a $100 million after-tax charge to earnings in the first quarter because the new law will lower its tax deductions.

 

Obama on Tuesday signed the most sweeping U.S. social policy legislation in decades into law, putting his name on a healthcare bill that will help shape his legacy. Designed to revamp the $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry, the law will extend health insurance to 32 million Americans who currently have none.

 

The law could raise expenses for large U.S. employers. Industrial companies, which typically have large numbers of retirees, may be among those facing the biggest bill. Caterpillar had argued before the legislation passed that health reform would put it at a disadvantage against global competitors.

[curly 10]

anyone who cant see the cost of equipment going up to offset these new costs needs to get the blinders off. anytime a manufacturing based industry sees increases in the cost of production, the cost is passed through to the consumer. you may not buy the john deere but you will buy somthing that needed a john deere to produce it. there is no free ride. with everyone who gets free insurance ,the cost of providing the insurance now becomes a opperating expense to the manufactor. that expense is passed through to the industry buying the good for their specific service.those increases are continually factored into cost of the following goods produced, finally stopping in the good ole middle class. our taxes go up to pay for the entitlements to the low income and the cost of everything we purchase increases. and that is why everything we buy costs so much more than it should. its a vicious cycle but thats the way it is.

[Lance 228]

i think the limit on posting is 1350 characters...just fyi...anything beyond that will give you an error...if it is longer you might consider splitting in to 2 posts or posting half then trying to edit in the rest? I think edit can get you around the limit....not sure of the exact numbers since we recently upgraded the software again.

[dodirty2012 10]

I had literally a 2000 word treatise on how I felt about the bill after reading the first 35 pages of it, but when I tried to post it, it got deleted. Here are my abridged thoughts:

 

1. The 153 page "summary" is actually the text of the amendments, which is useless without the bill itself in front of you. So, this point needs to be clarified for anyone who attempts to read this giant.

 

2. Sections 1501-1502 are blatant violations of the 5th Amendment Substantive Due Process right. I mean, it bluntly forces people to get insurance. It cannot be any clearer a violation.

 

3. In the first 35 pages, there are 2 separate violations of the Dormant Commerce Clause. But who needs the Constitution when we've got change, man! Yes we can!

 

4. This bill is going to MURDER the insurance industry. Not only do they have to give back pro rata the unused premiums they take in, they have to do everything in simplistic and "culturally appropriate" terms. Translation: dumb it down and put it in Spanish. Oh, and the pro rata premium returns? That's not only how the insurance providers put bread on their table, that's what would typically protect YOU if you needed to receive more insurance than your premiums would provice. So, prepare for the screwing, America.

 

5. Only ONE good, novel change in the first 35 pages: allowing people to stay on parental insurance until age 26. This is intended to help those like myself get through graduate school without having to take a 2nd job to pay insurance.

 

6. The "only increased taxes for $250K+ families" is a complete LIE. If you make 133% or more of the poverty level, your rates will go up. Page 2 of the Amendments even says that it will. A family making $88K/year, give or take a few thousand, will end up paying the same percentage of premiums as those families making $250K when all is said and done. My family, which makes $57K, should expect to see its premiums TRIPLE from what they currently are. No wonder Anthem's raising my insurance from $188/month to $660/month when these changes take full effect.

 

In short: THIS. BILL. IS. GARBAGE. And I only feel stronger AFTER reading it. I'm sick of trying to find some way to give the Left the benefit of the doubt on things, and reading the bill isn't going to change my opinion on it, and it likely won't change the opinion of any of the fine people on this forum.

 

1. its 153 pages so you can completly under stand it and not make dumb accusations

 

2. This can help sick and injured poor ppl. I am sure that if you are playing a sport and break an arm you want to get it fixed. hence ppl need insurance

 

3. your number 4 was just stupid. giving back UNUSED pro rata is bed?

 

4. "Only ONE good, novel change in the first 35 pages: allowing people to stay on parental insurance until age 26. This is intended to help those like myself get through graduate school without having to take a 2nd job to pay insurance."

 

Your right, I know its gonna help me get a fresh start into the real world

 

5.How do you say a bill is a lie? thats like me watching you make a three, score a touchdown, or hit a homerun and meet you after the game and tell you that you're a liar cause you didnt hit it. you should read the rest. that is if your ADD doesnt kick in. Its not that hard to just read

[Deleted Account 5,203]

1. its 153 pages so you can completly under stand it and not make dumb accusations

 

2. This can help sick and injured poor ppl. I am sure that if you are playing a sport and break an arm you want to get it fixed. hence ppl need insurance

 

3. your number 4 was just stupid. giving back UNUSED pro rata is bed?

 

4. "Only ONE good, novel change in the first 35 pages: allowing people to stay on parental insurance until age 26. This is intended to help those like myself get through graduate school without having to take a 2nd job to pay insurance."

 

Your right, I know its gonna help me get a fresh start into the real world

 

5.How do you say a bill is a lie? thats like me watching you make a three, score a touchdown, or hit a homerun and meet you after the game and tell you that you're a liar cause you didnt hit it. you should read the rest. that is if your ADD doesnt kick in. Its not that hard to just read

 

Wow, where to begin with this...

 

1. Dude, the 153 pages are the AMENDMENTS to the bill. They are COMPLETELY USELESS without the 2500+ pages that directly precede it. It's not a summary, it's not a separate document. Basically, it's a supplement that tells you where to look in the original bill so that you can strike out Part X and add Part Y. Using the amendments by themselves is like taking an assortment of one-liners from a 2-hour speech and trying to figure it out. I've taken post-graduate classes in Legislation, so I'm not exactly clueless on the matter.

 

2. Even if what you're saying is true (not fully), constitutional violations make the provisions (and since this bill lacks separation clauses, the ENTIRE BILL) invalid. The government cannot force non-fundamental privileges on people, and that's exactly what this bill proposes to do. Again, it's constitutionally defective, and that makes your entire claim a non sequitur.

 

3. Pulling out the big words like "stupid", are we? Yes, giving back unused premiums pro rata is absolutely TERRIBLE. You never addressed my claims, so let me again state WHY it's bad. Insurance companies use excess premiums to (a) provide a salary to their employees, as the bread on their tables must come from somewhere, and (b) pay out on claims for those people who have exceeded what they have paid into the system. Force the insurance companies to give back unused premiums, and you'll send insurance companies straight to Chapter 7. And then there'll be no insurance for ANYONE.

 

4. At least we can agree on something here...

 

5. This bill is COMPLETELY a lie. It raises insurance rates on anyone making over 133% of the federal poverty level, when the very SOBs who wrote it claim that "only families earning $250K+ will have higher taxes". It's going to drive insurance premiums through the roof, when the bill itself claims to lower insurance costs and save money. The bill claims to save $1.3T in 10 years, when it's going to take AT LEAST that much to fund the bill, making a 0 net gain (with the previous detrimental effect). It claims to help everyone become insured, when it forces non-fundamental privileges on people. What do we call such dishonesty? That's right, a LIE.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

i think the limit on posting is 1350 characters...just fyi...anything beyond that will give you an error...if it is longer you might consider splitting in to 2 posts or posting half then trying to edit in the rest? I think edit can get you around the limit....not sure of the exact numbers since we recently upgraded the software again.

 

Hmmm, is the limit that small? I swear that I've posteed stuff longer than 1350 characters before.

Good to know.