blocking/charge call???

[countryboy 11]

i have played basketball all my life....and as far as i have always known, if your moving or not set, it's a block....if your set then its a charge...and i know that this is probably the toughest call for an official to make...but what kills me is when someone runs over someone and nothing at all is called, i mean isn't it a charge or a block??...what do the refs see that lets them know not to call anything?...im serious here, not taking a shot at refs, im really confused lol....so if there are any refs out there, let me know...and another thing while im on this...did they make a rule a few years ago that if a player flops that it is suppose to be a technical foul??..just curious

[evophoto 10]

Tends to happen most often under the basket. I agree completely with you. It needs to be something since high school does not have the semicircle under the basket. If there is enough contact to displace a player it is a foul plain and simple.

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

First off, I am no longer an official, but I have put in the time to answer this to the best of my knowledge, and maybe it will help you. There is a lot that goes into making the call, IMO.

 

First, the defender can be moving to get a charge called. If the defender is in a defending position and moving, and beats the man to the spot, it is a charge every time. You do not have to be standing still, just in your own space in a defensive position (as in a vertical plane).

 

This vertical plane you are talking about is why you may often see no calls. Often times a defender will start to fall or lean back BEFORE contact is made. If he is not in the vertical plane, then it can not be a block. BUT, if it does not affect the play, as in the defender falls to the floor and the kid makes a layup, no call is the right one here.

 

And you are right, it is the toughest call to make, and you only get one shot. And to think it is as cut and dry as the rules state you are mistaken, just off the top of my head, here is what my checklist would be when REVIEWING a play on instant replay:

 

A) Legal Guarding Position

B) Location of defensive player

C) Is offensive player in control?

D) Was there a flop?

E) Did it affect the play?

F) Did offensive player initiate contact?

 

That is crazy to go through all of those in a split second. Different officials will tell you different things too. The main thing is whether or not they are consistent.

 

I will be honest in that for me:

 

A) If you are standing directly under the basket, its a block.

B) If you do not take it like a man, (i.e. leaning back or falling before contact) its a block.

C) If no advantage is gained by a flop, no call needed.

D) If you are out of control, and the defender is there, or very close to being there, it is a charge.

 

But that is just me, and I have developed those through calling hundreds of games.

 

One last thing, as for the technical issue, unless it was this year the rule was created, no there is no technical for flopping. BUT, there is one for making a mockery of the game, which obnoxious and obvious flopping would easily fit into and I would not hesitate to give to a player if they were continually excessive after I had warned them.

[AbndonFan 10]

First, No they didn't change a rule that if a player flops its a Tech. Its been in there for a long time under Faking.

Second, coaches complain that officials call too much tic tac fouls and don't let them play. Block/Charge is the toughest call to make, I agree. There are situations where fouls can interupt the flow of a game. Like the ones where a defender tries to take a charge the offensive player tries to avoid contact. Which by doing so, almost everytime puts the offensive guy at a disadvantage. So, with that said, if there is contact with the offensive guy trying to avoid the charge and him at a disadvantage, it is a no call.

[AbndonFan 10]

One last thing, as for the technical issue, unless it was this year the rule was created, no there is no technical for flopping. BUT, there is one for making a mockery of the game, which obnoxious and obvious flopping would easily fit into and I would not hesitate to give to a player if they were continually excessive after I had warned them.

 

I couldn't agree more. If you call that. You are asking for trouble.

[countryboy 11]

ok, another question now about the mockery of the game....is gesturing to the crowd, jumping up and chest bumping after a play, and pretty much making a fool of yourself considered mockery of the game??

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

Hmm. Tough one. But it would not fall under mockery, that is for faking or cheating in obsessive amounts.

 

First off, it is a game and emotions are high. As long as a player stays out of the other teams way when he celebrates, and does it in a acceptable manner (not over the top) it is ok for the most part. Now if he celebrates excessively after every play, you may have a problem.

 

Blocking a shot and then staring down a player, that would be taunting, and a technical.

 

Excessively celebrating in front of the opposing teams bench, technical.

 

Any obscene gesture, technical.

 

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions, i rushed through this one. (Hitting the fishing hole) :D

[evophoto 10]

Nice job Stoney... Well put on both accounts.

[countryboy 11]

yeap that helps out alot...wish i was going fishin...the situation your talking about wasn't every play...just a very emotional player, but you cleared it up nicely...thank you sir

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

No problem guys. I enjoyed it.

[sportsguy 10]

First, No they didn't change a rule that if a player flops its a Tech. Its been in there for a long time under Faking.

Second, coaches complain that officials call too much tic tac fouls and don't let them play. Block/Charge is the toughest call to make, I agree. There are situations where fouls can interupt the flow of a game. Like the ones where a defender tries to take a charge the offensive player tries to avoid contact. Which by doing so, almost everytime puts the offensive guy at a disadvantage. So, with that said, if there is contact with the offensive guy trying to avoid the charge and him at a disadvantage, it is a no call.

After reading all these posts I remembered the rule change, a buddy of mine is a official and I asked him about it since he was the one that told me about the rule change a couple years ago . He said the old rule was different than the way its written now, its now under unsportsmanlike that is why you can get a technical foul.

[the_truth 10]

After reading all these posts I remembered the rule change, a buddy of mine is a official and I asked him about it since he was the one that told me about the rule change a couple years ago . He said the old rule was different than the way its written now, its now under unsportsmanlike that is why you can get a technical foul.

 

Rule 10 Section 3 Article 6f. Player Technical Fouls

 

Faking being fouled, ....... The way it reads yeah it should be a technical foul, but like everything else the officials have there own INTERPRETATIONS of the English Language.

 

What I find very interesting is that I always hear ADVANTAGE/DISADVANTAGE from the officials but I dont ever see it in the rule book anywhere.

 

Answer this one for me officials: If you foul a shooter but he makes the shot, did you gain an advantage. He made the shot anyways, hmmm guess there should never be another three point play in the history of basketball.

 

One of these days when a referee tells me hand checking is ok they are not gaining an advantage I am gonna have a girl get an inbound pass and walk to half court with the ball under her arm and if they call traveling I am gonna ask how did she gain an advantage?

 

Call what is in the RULE BOOK. Basketball would then go back to being a game of skill.

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

Rule 10 Section 3 Article 6f. Player Technical Fouls

 

Faking being fouled, ....... The way it reads yeah it should be a technical foul, but like everything else the officials have there own INTERPRETATIONS of the English Language.

 

What I find very interesting is that I always hear ADVANTAGE/DISADVANTAGE from the officials but I dont ever see it in the rule book anywhere.

 

Answer this one for me officials: If you foul a shooter but he makes the shot, did you gain an advantage. He made the shot anyways, hmmm guess there should never be another three point play in the history of basketball.

 

One of these days when a referee tells me hand checking is ok they are not gaining an advantage I am gonna have a girl get an inbound pass and walk to half court with the ball under her arm and if they call traveling I am gonna ask how did she gain an advantage?

 

Call what is in the RULE BOOK. Basketball would then go back to being a game of skill.

 

If we called everything by the book... you would still be playing your first game, and probably would be ejected. The game would not be played like it is now, nor it should be.

[the_truth 10]

If we called everything by the book... you would still be playing your first game, and probably would be ejected. The game would not be played like it is now, nor it should be.

 

Exactly my point, yall dont call what is in the rule book. Thanks for agreeing with me. Players and coaches would adjust, trust me my players dont hand check etc. they are taught by the rule book and I would greatly appreciate it if the officials would call it that way. I can not speak for others on the subject only myself.

[blade 11]

I personally don't think hand check is as bad of a problem as a defensive player being allowed to ride someone to the point of pushing them out of bounds and reaching. I've seen more no calls on reaching this year. My question is if a defensive player completely comes across a ball handlers body and reaches in while having no contact causing the dribbler to loose control is that a foul?

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

Exactly my point, yall dont call what is in the rule book. Thanks for agreeing with me. Players and coaches would adjust, trust me my players dont hand check etc. they are taught by the rule book and I would greatly appreciate it if the officials would call it that way. I can not speak for others on the subject only myself.

 

And you stand alone. Others would rather see a fair called ball game, where the boys/girls actually play. Not where the refs dive into the rule book to find the elusive tuck rule, or the obscure calls that have no need anymore.

 

The players control the game, and the game is about the players. People/coaches want to make it about them.

 

Call the game so that the players are the stars, let them dictate how you have to officiate it, and everyone goes home happy.

 

The officials who call every single thing, are the ones who are the worst in the minds of many fans I am sure.

[GWRoons 10]

And you stand alone. Others would rather see a fair called ball game, where the boys/girls actually play. Not where the refs dive into the rule book to find the elusive tuck rule, or the obscure calls that have no need anymore.

 

The players control the game, and the game is about the players. People/coaches want to make it about them.

 

Call the game so that the players are the stars, let them dictate how you have to officiate it, and everyone goes home happy.

 

The officials who call every single thing, are the ones who are the worst in the minds of many fans I am sure.

 

I agree! As long as refs are consistant, I would rather see the kids get to play the game.

[sportsguy 10]

And you stand alone. Others would rather see a fair called ball game, where the boys/girls actually play. Not where the refs dive into the rule book to find the elusive tuck rule, or the obscure calls that have no need anymore.

 

The players control the game, and the game is about the players. People/coaches want to make it about them.

 

Call the game so that the players are the stars, let them dictate how you have to officiate it, and everyone goes home happy.

 

The officials who call every single thing, are the ones who are the worst in the minds of many fans I am sure.

First off it is your job as an official to make calls by the rule book, most refs dont make the tough call in a close game because they hate the thought that one call could determine the out come of a game so they let way to much stuff go and then call a hand check! and as for the players control the game well your wrong the coach controls the game, it is he or she that run the show all players do is follow orders . and yo want to know what a good official is? Its one that in the flow of the game you never know hes out there because he is doing his job th way its suppose to be done. and as a coach you expect for the ref to make calls that are by the book because you teach your players to play by these same rules you have said are obscure calls that have no need anymore. so you may have been a ref at one time but I assure you that if you officiate the way you portray the game to be how in the world did you ever make it out of a gym with out some parent taking your head off? and Im not casting any stones I have also officiated ball games before and it is not a easy job , But i have always called by the rule regardless if it was a hand check, charge , blocking, etc.... but the one call that has always ate at me is when REF tells you it wasnt a foul ! hand is part of the ball. And you know that is crap , in that case why call a hack across the hand when a kid steels the ball?

my point exactly , ref control to much of the games outcome because they dont call by the rules .!!!!!!!

[Guest StoneyCalhoun]

First off it is your job as an official to make calls by the rule book, most refs dont make the tough call in a close game because they hate the thought that one call could determine the out come of a game so they let way to much stuff go and then call a hand check! and as for the players control the game well your wrong the coach controls the game, it is he or she that run the show all players do is follow orders . and yo want to know what a good official is? Its one that in the flow of the game you never know hes out there because he is doing his job th way its suppose to be done. and as a coach you expect for the ref to make calls that are by the book because you teach your players to play by these same rules you have said are obscure calls that have no need anymore. so you may have been a ref at one time but I assure you that if you officiate the way you portray the game to be how in the world did you ever make it out of a gym with out some parent taking your head off? and Im not casting any stones I have also officiated ball games before and it is not a easy job , But i have always called by the rule regardless if it was a hand check, charge , blocking, etc.... but the one call that has always ate at me is when REF tells you it wasnt a foul ! hand is part of the ball. And you know that is crap , in that case why call a hack across the hand when a kid steels the ball?

my point exactly , ref control to much of the games outcome because they dont call by the rules .!!!!!!!

 

 

In three years, I issued 2 T's, and I have a quick trigger finger. I didn't have problems out there.

 

And the players play the game, not the coaches. If they are rough, well then we are gonna have to tighten up before something gets out of hand.

 

And the whole "rule book" argument, it is called common sense. You can not call everything, and you can not call anything. No ref is gonna try and change the rule book, just call it so like you stated as they are not part of the game.

 

I got out for one reason, three types of people want to make it about themselves: Coaches, fans, and the refs. In high school sports, it should never be about any of them, and probably at any level.

 

In a short amount of time I moved up quick, and in my first year I had sectional and regional games to call. But I am out now, cause it isnt worth it. I called the game to the fairest of my knowledge, with consistency, looking out for the players.

 

But no one cares about them anymore.

[HurricaneWarning 212]

In three years, I issued 2 T's, and I have a quick trigger finger. I didn't have problems out there.

 

And the players play the game, not the coaches. If they are rough, well then we are gonna have to tighten up before something gets out of hand.

 

And the whole "rule book" argument, it is called common sense. You can not call everything, and you can not call anything. No ref is gonna try and change the rule book, just call it so like you stated as they are not part of the game.

 

I got out for one reason, three types of people want to make it about themselves: Coaches, fans, and the refs. In high school sports, it should never be about any of them, and probably at any level.

 

In a short amount of time I moved up quick, and in my first year I had sectional and regional games to call. But I am out now, cause it isnt worth it. I called the game to the fairest of my knowledge, with consistency, looking out for the players.

 

But no one cares about them anymore.

 

Well put Stoney, I know exactly what you mean!!

[AbndonFan 10]

I personally don't think hand check is as bad of a problem as a defensive player being allowed to ride someone to the point of pushing them out of bounds and reaching. I've seen more no calls on reaching this year. My question is if a defensive player completely comes across a ball handlers body and reaches in while having no contact causing the dribbler to loose control is that a foul?

 

You answered your own question. There is no contact, no foul. A reach is simply a reach. Its like all the wonderful educated fans yelling over the back. No such thing. Stop yelling that. Does a plane fly over your house? Same concept.

[AbndonFan 10]

First off it is your job as an official to make calls by the rule book, most refs dont make the tough call in a close game because they hate the thought that one call could determine the out come of a game so they let way to much stuff go and then call a hand check! and as for the players control the game well your wrong the coach controls the game, it is he or she that run the show all players do is follow orders . and yo want to know what a good official is? Its one that in the flow of the game you never know hes out there because he is doing his job th way its suppose to be done. and as a coach you expect for the ref to make calls that are by the book because you teach your players to play by these same rules you have said are obscure calls that have no need anymore. so you may have been a ref at one time but I assure you that if you officiate the way you portray the game to be how in the world did you ever make it out of a gym with out some parent taking your head off? and Im not casting any stones I have also officiated ball games before and it is not a easy job , But i have always called by the rule regardless if it was a hand check, charge , blocking, etc.... but the one call that has always ate at me is when REF tells you it wasnt a foul ! hand is part of the ball. And you know that is crap , in that case why call a hack across the hand when a kid steels the ball?

my point exactly , ref control to much of the games outcome because they dont call by the rules .!!!!!!!

 

So you would like to see officials call it by the rule book? You would like to see officials call a Technical on a Coach for coaching outside the coaching box. How often do you see a coach outside his box during a game? Or how about the prewrap the girls wear on their head. Its supposed to be the same color. One girl can have black and another white. Does that make a difference in the game? No, but it is a rule. Officials can call everything, but it would be a boring game.

[passerby 10]

The problem is NOT ALL REFS call the calls. Some will call hand checking and others will not. Some call reaching in and some don't. Some call over the back and some don't. That is the problem. All people are asking for is consistency. This year has had some of the worst officiating I have seen in all of the 34 years I have been watching high school basketball. A lot of the officials want to be the ones who decide the game. I don't mean a few, I mean A LOT.

 

It gets really bad when an official is standing right beside of a blatant charging foul when the defensive player is in front of the offensive player and the offensive player flings an arm in front of himself and pushes the defensive player out of bounds. The official is looking right at the players and utters "I didn't see it." or "It's not my call." That is all a bunch of bs right there.

 

The rules about girls headbands and color of their bras underneath their jerseys is stupid too. Some officials say something about it and others don't. I know last year when those rules went into effect one of the officials was a real smart aleck about it. But he wouldn't call traveling or hand checking.

[passerby 10]

I want to add......if it is in the rule book shouldn't it be called? If it is not important, then the rule should be amended or removed. No one calls 3 seconds anymore, but it is still in the rule book.

[Great City 210]

Like it has been pointed out, the game should be about the kids.

 

BUT, it is not fair TO THE KIDS if the game is not called correctly. The kids should not have to play 10 minutes of a basketball game to find out what is going to be called or not.

 

 

This brings me to another pet peeve of mine. The strike zone. Umpires should NOT have their own customized strike zone. Call the strike zone like it is written. Again, not fair to the kids to have to wonder what is going to be a strike or ball.