Playoff formats in various classifications

[West12aaa 99]

Graham finished 5-5. Would be #4 team in Region D, Group 2A. Under a 6 team format two 6-4 and a 5-5 get in.

I forget where the divide is for D and c

[swva_havok_fan 1,261]

I prefer the current 16 team format now in 1A West and 2A West.  If it is to be changed, then keep the 16 team format, but go the way of 3 and 4A East and 5 and 6A South with the two conference sectionals per division.

 

Looking at 1A West and 2A West this season using THAT format, the only difference in a team being out or in would have been Covington in 1A West as they were only 9th best in their "Region C" sectional.

 

Castlewood would have replaced them as being the 8th best team in the "Region D" sectional of 1A West.

 

1A West would have been like this:

 

47/48 (Region D) Sectional:

 

1 Burton vs 8 Castlewood

2 Honaker vs 7 Twin Springs

3 Hurley vs 6 Twin Valley

4 Patrick Henry vs 5 Northwood

 

45/46 (Region C) Sectional:

 

1 George Wythe vs 8 Narrows

2 Galax vs 7 Parry McCluer

3 Radford vs 6 Auburn

4 Rural Retreat vs 5 Bland County

 

2A West would have looked like this:

 

39/40 (Region D) Sectional:

 

1 Union vs 8 Lee High

2 Richlands vs 7 Grayson County

3 Wise Central vs 6 Virginia High

4 Graham vs 5 Ridgeview

 

37/38 (Region C) Sectional:

 

1 Appomattox vs 8 Gretna

2 Glenvar vs 7 Martinsville

3 Buckingham County vs 6 Dan River

4 Giles vs 5 James River

[redtiger 1,740]

Just like the 5-5 Appy team in 1989, the 1988 Jonesville team was 1 of only 4 playoff teams in Region D Division 1. They were legit and had the rating to get in. That's my point entirely...most all the State Champions who had mediocre regular season records accomplished their feat when playoff spots were hard earned..not after they were given out to nearly everyone. The old system thoroughly vetted the teams that got in...and was more efficient than the watered down mess we have now.

Youre overlooking the fact that Region D Div 1 wasnt very deep. 4 teams in worked in RDD1 because in most years there werent 4 good teams, hence 5-5 teams getting in and making runs. Both 89 Appy and 88 Jonesville played tough schedules and were very good 5-5 teams. The 4 teams in setup was not suitable for RDD2 which often produced 5-6 strong teams with 1-2 setting at home. 

 

16 teams statewide is probably a good idea for 1A but for 2A I dont think its enough and its probably not enough for 3A.

[Beamerball 566]

I seen it somewhere else but can some find the numbers for seeding# record since this playoff setup has been around?

[Beamerball 566]

So I was bored enough to compile some stuff myself.  Just compiled Groups 1A through 3A West Regions from 2013-2015.  Went with the west regions only since they've consistently stuck with the 16 team deal.  Don't think I'm bored enough or have that much time on my hands to try to season record playoff totals, but I'd be interested to see that too.

 

Group 1A-2A West (2011-2015) (including Div. 1-2 in '11-'12)::
1 vs. 16 10-0
2 vs. 15 10-0
3 vs. 14 9-1
4 vs. 13 8-2
5 vs. 12 8-2
6 vs. 11 7-3
7 vs. 10 6-4
8 vs. 9 6-4

 

Group 1A-3A Western seeds (2013-15):
1 vs. 16 8-1
2 vs. 15 9-0
3 vs. 14 9-0
4 vs. 13 6-3
5 vs. 12 6-3
6 vs. 11 7-2
7 vs. 10 6-3
8 vs. 9 5-4

 

 

Group 1A-3A West combined total (2013-15):
1-8 seeds = 56-16
9-18 seeds = 16-56

 

 

Group 1A-2A West (2011-2015) (including Div. 1-2):
1-8 seeds = 64-16
9-18 seeds = 16-64

 

 

Div. 1-2 West combined total from 2011-2012:
1-8 seeds = 28-4
9-18 seeds = 4-28

[Deleted Account 5,203]

0 5 and 5 teams would get in as of now.

You must try very hard to be so consistently wrong.

[West12aaa 99]

You must try very hard to be so consistently wrong.

the passive aggressiveness in this post is rather hilarious and pathetic at the same time

[sup_rbeast 296]

Youre overlooking the fact that Region D Div 1 wasnt very deep. 4 teams in worked in RDD1 because in most years there werent 4 good teams, hence 5-5 teams getting in and making runs. Both 89 Appy and 88 Jonesville played tough schedules and were very good 5-5 teams. The 4 teams in setup was not suitable for RDD2 which often produced 5-6 strong teams with 1-2 setting at home.

 

16 teams statewide is probably a good idea for 1A but for 2A I dont think its enough and its probably not enough for 3A.

Deep or not, in Region D there were 3 districts and only 4 Division 1 and 4 Division 2 teams made the playoffs. That's 8 total whereas now there are roughly 16 from the old regions in 1A and 2A combined. This whole thread has addressed the extent the new playoff system is watered down...and this shows it more vividly than anything has. And, then the argument was that deserving teams would miss out under the old system. Thing is, if they were deserving enough they made it and then made some noise.

[Rod Johnson 95]

I prefer the current 16 team format now in 1A West and 2A West.  If it is to be changed, then keep the 16 team format, but go the way of 3 and 4A East and 5 and 6A South with the two conference sectionals per division.

 

Looking at 1A West and 2A West this season using THAT format, the only difference in a team being out or in would have been Covington in 1A West as they were only 9th best in their "Region C" sectional.

 

Castlewood would have replaced them as being the 8th best team in the "Region D" sectional of 1A West.

 

1A West would have been like this:

 

47/48 (Region D) Sectional:

 

1 Burton vs 8 Castlewood

2 Honaker vs 7 Twin Springs

3 Hurley vs 6 Twin Valley

4 Patrick Henry vs 5 Northwood

 

45/46 (Region C) Sectional:

 

1 George Wythe vs 8 Narrows

2 Galax vs 7 Parry McCluer

3 Radford vs 6 Auburn

4 Rural Retreat vs 5 Bland County

 

2A West would have looked like this:

 

39/40 (Region D) Sectional:

 

1 Union vs 8 Lee High

2 Richlands vs 7 Grayson County

3 Wise Central vs 6 Virginia High

4 Graham vs 5 Ridgeview

 

37/38 (Region C) Sectional:

 

1 Appomattox vs 8 Gretna

2 Glenvar vs 7 Martinsville

3 Buckingham County vs 6 Dan River

4 Giles vs 5 James River

 

Based on a lot of conversations that I've had lately, this setup seems to be what most are pushing for -- keep the 16 teams in but use the 'pods' for local matchups early.

[redtiger 1,740]

Deep or not, in Region D there were 3 districts and only 4 Division 1 and 4 Division 2 teams made the playoffs. That's 8 total whereas now there are roughly 16 from the old regions in 1A and 2A combined. This whole thread has addressed the extent the new playoff system is watered down...and this shows it more vividly than anything has. And, then the argument was that deserving teams would miss out under the old system. Thing is, if they were deserving enough they made it and then made some noise.

9-1 teams should never be out of the playoffs and that happened regularly under the old system. Let 1 A only have 12 or even 8 teams, with a bye for the top seeds or a bye for everyone. Let each group set the playoffs up however best suits them, as long as its uniform across the state for that group. 

 

One thing we are overlooking is district champs no longer getting automatic bids. That probably helps to guarantee that 9-1/8-2 teams dont get left out, although without the auto bids some district champs would get left out

[sup_rbeast 296]

9-1 teams should never be out of the playoffs and that happened regularly under the old system. Let 1 A only have 12 or even 8 teams, with a bye for the top seeds or a bye for everyone. Let each group set the playoffs up however best suits them, as long as its uniform across the state for that group.

 

One thing we are overlooking is district champs no longer getting automatic bids. That probably helps to guarantee that 9-1/8-2 teams dont get left out, although without the auto bids some district champs would get left out

If they go back to regions, I think they should give an automatic birth to all district champions. Each region usually has 3 districts. If you combine 1A and 2A, if they only took 4 teams per classification per region, that is 8 spots total. Guarantee 3 of those 8 spots to district champs, leave the other 5 to be decided on rating. That gives everyone a chance from day 1 to earn a spot. If they expanded it to 6 teams per classification per region, that would be more than enough playoff spots. So what if an 8-2 team gets left out on account of a low power rating...im that instance, the team probably wouldn't be 8-2 if they had played a schedule worth a damn.

[West12aaa 99]

If they go back to regions, I think they should give an automatic birth to all district champions. Each region usually has 3 districts. If you combine 1A and 2A, if they only took 4 teams per classification per region, that is 8 spots total. Guarantee 3 of those 8 spots to district champs, leave the other 5 to be decided on rating. That gives everyone a chance from day 1 to earn a spot. If they expanded it to 6 teams per classification per region, that would be more than enough playoff spots. So what if an 8-2 team gets left out on account of a low power rating...im that instance, the team probably wouldn't be 8-2 if they had played a schedule worth a damn.

pass

[Beamerball 566]

What's a "deserving" team?  4 wins?  A .500 record?  A winning record?  A 7 win team?  An 8 win team? Or a team that gets in by the standards of the set up?  You can't draw a line that everyone will agree on.  The regular season should mean something too.  Once you get past the 12th seed, it just isn't proving those teams making it are worth it.  Make it more meaningful to have a good regular season and more challenging/rewarding to make the playoffs.  The 5-5 Cinderella stories still happen with fewer teams taken, and more "Cinderella" felt in those odds too.  Otherwise, just let them all in and give out more participation trophies.

[HM3-8404 103]

What do most people like more a NCAA basketball tourney with some scrubs getting in and more fan bases getting involved and some young kids getting more practice and schools making more money ( because lets get serious football money is what props up all other high school sports in 75% of schools). 

 

Or a NCAA football type of tourney where just a few make it in. 1) because they play in a poor district. 2) Have great programs like a Union/Richlands/GC so teams trying to build up a program like a Graham/Rv/Grundy will always fall short.

 

I will never complain to loudly if Richlands makes it with a 4-6 record, but I would flip my lid if we missed the playoffs with a 9-1 or 8-2 record because we have a 3A  Abingdon in our district. 

 

Here in SWVA with the economy struggling and money short and knowing how much pride we have in High School football and how much enjoyment we get out of watching and supporting our boys it just seems like common sense that the more teams you have involved with football playoffs the better for everyone. 

 

I know some of you old school guys liked it when the regular season would mean something, but times have changed. 20 years ago would anyone have believed that the 2 AA teams from far SWVA would be to 2 teams left with the high powered passing offenses with all the skill players running and gunning for over 40 points a game.

[redtiger 1,740]

If they go back to regions, I think they should give an automatic birth to all district champions. Each region usually has 3 districts. If you combine 1A and 2A, if they only took 4 teams per classification per region, that is 8 spots total. Guarantee 3 of those 8 spots to district champs, leave the other 5 to be decided on rating. That gives everyone a chance from day 1 to earn a spot. If they expanded it to 6 teams per classification per region, that would be more than enough playoff spots. So what if an 8-2 team gets left out on account of a low power rating...im that instance, the team probably wouldn't be 8-2 if they had played a schedule worth a damn.

I could agree w 24 state wide. 

 

Youre right Beamerball, no system is never gonna make everyone happy but imo the system needs to let enough teams in so that 9-1 teams are never left out and that teams that lose 2,3,4 games with really tough schedules still get in. 

 

Work out the numbers since the new system went into place and set the number in wherever it needs to be to make sure those situations dont happen. 

[Bearcat Bob 491]

Why is "rod" here?

[1inStripes 932]

Youre overlooking the fact that Region D Div 1 wasnt very deep. 4 teams in worked in RDD1 because in most years there werent 4 good teams, hence 5-5 teams getting in and making runs. Both 89 Appy and 88 Jonesville played tough schedules and were very good 5-5 teams. The 4 teams in setup was not suitable for RDD2 which often produced 5-6 strong teams with 1-2 setting at home. 

 

 

 

Actually at that time Region D D1 was probably as deep as it ever was. From 85-90 you generally had 5 teams (Appy, Jonesville, JI Burton, Rye Cove, Twin Springs) who could beat each other up and possibly win the state title.  Generally after that time frame it was a 1 or 2 horse race.

[redtiger 1,740]

I didnt think TS was ever a legit competitor on the Regional level, I knew RC had their years

[sup_rbeast 296]

I didnt think TS was ever a legit competitor on the Regional level, I knew RC had their years

In the late 80's-early 90's, TS had a couple legit teams.. It took eventual state champion Appalachia OT to beat them in 1989.  A couple years later they played in a Region D final...and in 03 and 04 they played in the Region D finals. So, not a world beater, but in a 15 year stretch they played in 3 Region D finals...that's more than many teams can say.

[1inStripes 932]

TS was extremely formidable from 86-95. The year Jonesville won it all the Region D seeding was 1 Appy 2 RC 3 TS 4 Jonesville and there wasnt a bit of difference in the quality of either team really.  Jonesville beat Appy 7-6 and RC scored late in a disputed game because the clock was out that day at RC to win 28-25 over TS.  

 

The next weekend was the mud bowl at RC and by far the worst conditions I have watched a game be played in.  RC returned the opening kickoff to the 5 and Jonesville stoned them from there.  Jonesville then scored on their second play and barely moved the ball the rest of the day while continuing to bend but not break when RC would drive to the red zone.  That win avenged a loss RC had given Jonesville 3 weeks earlier at Jonesville 15-14. 

 

I did forget to add Pound to that mix also.  In the late 80s they were great also and had some great games with Gate City from  86-88.

[redtiger 1,740]

Thanks for the history lesson guys, 3 Reg D runner up trophies is something to be proud of. 

[Beamerball 566]

Tim Hayes pulled out a Mud Bowl memory a couple of weeks ago....

 

Tim Hayes â€@Hayes_BHCSports

11/19/88: Jonesville 7, Rye Cove 0. Region D, Division 1 Finals. Lots and lots of mud. #VHSL #HCFH

 

[Beamerball 566]

Jonesville's facebook group referenced it too with another pic...

https://www.facebook.com/Jonesville88/posts/929536870433252?comment_id=929573120429627&comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22}

[sup_rbeast 296]

The next weekend was the mud bowl at RC and by far the worst conditions I have watched a game be played in.

Worst conditions I've ever seen was the 1989 PV-Pound game played in Pound.  Constant downpour, 3-6 inches of water standing on the field, it was bad.  Pound was held to negative yardage and still only lost 12-7.  Really, one of their very few positive plays was a long TD pass late in the first half.  Put 'em up 7-6, and was nearly enough to win the game for 'em.