sup_rbeast

It’s tough to discuss a rivalry when one side only wins a game every 11 years or so...Wise has not been a rivalry for the teams in the western end of the county in football for nearly 4 decades...and that’s the only sport many folks even keep up with. I’m sure they have a fine debate team as well in Wise. It’s just that one game per year when the loudmouths get shut up.

Not ruffling feathers, just irrelevant to the discussion. I can’t debate basketball because I’ve been to exactly 3 b-ball games in my entire life. But, you won’t see me on the basketball forum talking football, either. I hear it gets lonely over there, though.

That may be true, but this is a football forum...there are forums on here for other sports, but much like it is in the region, those don’t seem to get as much attention as this one. Mumbley Peg could be competitive, I reckon...but very few would give a damn who the Mumbley Peg Champion was.

"Hapless but Hopeful Missouri HS Football Team Presses On After 102-0 Loss" http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2738364-hapless-but-hopeful-missouri-hs-football-team-presses-on-after-102-0-loss?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial Given some of the recent threads on the board, imagine what it takes to be these guys.

Just for reference: Since 1980 (37 years) Kelly/Central has won exactly 12 out of 68 meetings with PV/Appy/Union. They were a stellar 3-27-1 vs PV, a remarkable 8-23 vs Appy, and own an outstanding 1-5 mark vs Union. Rivalry? Not exactly. haha

Since the early 80's anything to do with playing Kelly/Central has been anything but a rivalry...it's just the annual Wise County beat down...with very few exceptions. You have to be competitive to have a rivalry..and more often than not, that hasn't been the case.

Beginning with the year 2000, the PV program went into a slow decline. Run those same numbers from 1982-1991, and you get a different story. From 1982-1991 PV was 99-19-1 with 4 titles. If you get selective and leave out 1991 which was a total rebuilding year and a bridge between the 80's and 90's powerhouse teams, then you have a 94-14-1 record with 4 titles. Any way you want to manipulate the data, you are going to get very similar results for each decade. (1982-1991 - 4 Titles, 1992-2001 - 4 Titles). It don't take much to see where the decline started...don't take much to see where it all began either. But, pretty much, the rise of PV football's "golden age" began in 1982 and ended around 1999-2000...with a pretty solid team in 2004, as well. Actually, they had some solid teams sprinkled in from the school's opening until it closed...just a solid program. But, one with a 17 year run of averaging a state title every other year mixed in for good measure (181-31-1 combined record from 1982-1998...roughly an average record of 11-2 yearly) So, as you can see, those average numbers are virtually the same as the numbers you came up with from the Jones era. Here's a link with it all from 1959 until 1998 in one place...with much more info than just records and scores. Here you also get an overview of each season along with stand out players, some stats etc. http://pvvikings1.tripod.com/pvhist.html (Records from 1999 until the school's close can be found on VHSL Reference.)

This whole debate is pure speculation...that’s the point. We know what happened, and either way you look at it, no one can say for sure what would’ve happened without this player or that player. But, historical numbers across 20 years of running that offense show that there would have been a competent threat at that position. That wasn’t the hardest spot to fill in that offense, the QB spot was.

I never said they weren’t. All I said was that with or without them, PV had the athletes to win the titles they won...and that’s the truth. The teams wouldn’t have had a stellar athlete, but they had enough to get it done. No doubt the Jonses made it easier, but that’s not the debate.

It has definitely had more than its fair share of memorable moments. The ghosts come out quite often there.

I didn’t say the Jonses were plug and play...I said the tailback position in PV’s I Formation was plug and play, which it was. Name one back who dotted that I as a starter who didn’t gain at least 1,000 yards from 1983 until they changed to the spread. That’s my point.

That’s not what I’m saying at all. What I’m saying is in both instances there were backs on the roster behind them more than capable of carrying the load and starting for most teams in the area. Not just run of the mill backs...talented backs as good as anyone else had, just not on the level of the Jonses. The Jones brothers and their talents were the cherry on top.

Having success at a high school level and going on to have success at another level are two different things. Sure, having the Jones's didn't hurt, but having the Forty Jacksons, Keith Halls, and Greg Bishops didn't hurt either. You can take the focal point of any team away and diminish the ability of that team...and coming out of PV's I Formation, the tailback was that focal point. I spend a lot of time in Gate City, and it's always amusing to me how the folks there want to attribute PV's success to 2 players. News Flash: those guys were good, but even without them PV would've had at least 7 if not all 8 of the titles they won. Try this...go back to all of GC's State Champions and subtract the best player, then tell me how many they would've won. Or, do that for any team...that shoe is one size fits all.

If I'm not mistaken, there was some sort of a Wise County/City of Norton land swap for the school parking lot, too. At one point, half of the school property was in the county while the rest was in the City of Norton.

See...this kind of stuff is the very reason Wise county schools have enjoyed handing the school in the county seat their asses on the football field for decades.

On 3 of those teams there was more than enough talent to win it all without the Jones brothers. The 1994 team would've cut it close. But, consider this, after Robbins's arrival, PV rarely had a year without a 1,500 yard running back. That position was just plug and play at PV. The main reason for PV's success was line play on both sides of the ball and Defense. The skill positions were top notch, but as long as PV had a capable QB, they were in good shape year in and year out. As far as the competition being soft in 2A, the most skilled team I have ever seen on a VA high school field was Lunenburg Central...and that still stands to this day. Athletes and skill EVERYWHERE. Outside of their meetings with PV, their success over a decade was phenomenal. Thing is, some teams rise to the occasion and some don't. But I'll tell you this, I never played against another team who I'd put money on to beat a Lunenburg team from that era, and that's a fact.

I think that is a good idea, too. I enjoyed the last one, and I always enjoyed travelling there as a player back in the day. The place had an aura to it...and the field weeded out the sissies. Only got to do it twice, but I always looked forward to it.

As far as Union goes, playing at the Park isn’t a problem, per se. The town, school, and fans want it that way. Even the mention of playing somewhere else gets immense pushback.

My guess would be that he approached the appropriate folks/channels and was stonewalled. If that is the case, nothing wrong with what he is doing IMO. He has the means and resources to take on the system and it looks like he is doing a damn fine job of doing so. If they do get rid of him, that’ll make 2 really good football minds that have been ran off in TN in the past couple weeks. Don’t be surprised if both end up at DB next year.

Going back decades, the perception has always been that being in the county seat they got more and were favored over the other county schools. Reality or not, it was a good motivational tool...

It goes back a long, long time...but everyone always got an extra bit of satisfaction in thumping JJ Kelly and now Central...whether they fielded a sorry team or a good team.

Everything I’ve seen says MW counts as 4A in VA.

It may very well get ugly...but I can see a scenario where GC tries to run off tackle and shorten the game (best situation for them at this point) which would keep the score closer than many are envisioning it will be. The other thing is that I don’t see a win over a top flight team this year. I know they beat GW and Chilhowie, but I’m just not convinced that either of those teams are much above average this year. In 1A I think both will do well, but I’m not certain that either would stack up well agaisnt an above average 2A this year. I think Marion wins, I’m just skeptical of a few things is all.

For some reason, I think this game will be tighter than expected. 14 point spread at most.

I am asking anyone. GW and Chilhowie seem to be pretty even this year.