so what do yall think of the area windmill idea?

[BigBlueAlum 12]

I have not been convinced that it will benefit OUR area.... provide jobs, etc.

Who will be hired? Are our workers trained? lots of questions.

 

I am remembering all the county talk about how much the new prison would benefit the Northern District......have not seen that much of an economic boost, have you?

 

No area is seeing an "economic boost" right now. Maybe the new prison is keeping our head above the water for now though.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Are there a lot of/any homes up near the ridge line of the mountain? Serious question.

 

As far as I know the only homes on top of east river mountain are some more rustic small cabin types of houses, a few of them, along big ridge, which is more over graham middle school as a point of reference, but none that I know of along the ridgeline down the mountain west of their where the windmills would be. I don't foresee the concerns of people living close to them as relevant to this idea myself, those were concerns that simply went with the article.

But the other concerns seemed more what people should be concerned about in this case.

On another message board I read researching some opinions, people seemed to suggest that the workers who built the windmills were brought in and housed in trailers for about 6 months through their construction there.

I recall talking to someone in person as me and my dogs were out in our jeep going over the mountain the winter they were building the powerline a few years ago, he was telling me about it and most of the workers from that project were from out of town, he said he himself was from somewhere in nc and went home for like 1 day every 2 weeks.

I would guess there's not any reason to think that putting up 400 foot tall windmills is a job that locals could just go apply for, it's likely a very specialized process with the actual work on the ground being very experienced engineers and I'd guess they'd go up with a heavy lift helicopter.

I doubt there'd be much work for locals, aside from maybe hiring a logging operation to clear cut the areas of the mountain.

There other complaint on that message board was that the energy doesn't directly go to the community, at least it didn't in their case, it goes to a generic power plant facility farther away that generates power on a large scale to be used by the company however.

 

Doing more reading the bp in the company listed is actually simply a different component of bp gas. So the more I read the more it seems they're simply tossing a few $s to the community to use our mountains and wind to go in their supply banks.. ....

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I have not been convinced that it will benefit OUR area.... provide jobs, etc.

Who will be hired? Are our workers trained? lots of questions.

 

I am remembering all the county talk about how much the new prison would benefit the Northern District......have not seen that much of an economic boost, have you?

 

from reading, construction is a special process and it's basically a hi tech field overall that wouldn't really benefit the area at all employment wise.

 

[VHSLhelper 571]

Yeah, construction prob. won't lead to local hires, but those guys gotta eat, and drive, so some businesses will get a boost and a few more tax dollars will be made.

[VHSLhelper 571]

As for the red lights vs. strobes, here's the scoop.

FAA used to require the flashing reds. Then they allowed strobes. Older towers could switch when they were repainted if the owners wished. Strobes are basically LED's, so they last a lot longer than the bulbs (which are enclosed on a red glass ball, kinda like a lantern).

 

If they'll be behind the ridge from 460, it won't be bad unless it's a foggy night or you're ABOVE the towers looking down on them.

 

Thinking about this, is the tower going to be 400 feet tall, or the blades?

If the tower is 400 feet, expect the blades to be 300 feet, making it 700 feet high (like the top seat of a ferris wheel). If the blades are 400 feet, the tower will rise about 500 feet above the ground. I assume the light will be at the top of the tower, not the ends of the blades, but I don't know.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

As for the red lights vs. strobes, here's the scoop.

FAA used to require the flashing reds. Then they allowed strobes. Older towers could switch when they were repainted if the owners wished. Strobes are basically LED's, so they last a lot longer than the bulbs (which are enclosed on a red glass ball, kinda like a lantern).

 

If they'll be behind the ridge from 460, it won't be bad unless it's a foggy night or you're ABOVE the towers looking down on them.

 

Thinking about this, is the tower going to be 400 feet tall, or the blades?

If the tower is 400 feet, expect the blades to be 300 feet, making it 700 feet high (like the top seat of a ferris wheel). If the blades are 400 feet, the tower will rise about 500 feet above the ground. I assume the light will be at the top of the tower, not the ends of the blades, but I don't know.

 

The way I understand it is that the entire structure, from the base to tip of the blade, will be 400 feet tall.

[CPF 417]

If it is going to directly benefit this area...long-lasting, good paying jobs; the community benefits from the power created by lowering OUR electric bills; etc...then I'm for it.

 

If its just going to ruin our mountain and line the pockets of "outsiders", then they best be looking for another mountain...

 

BTW, I've read these windmills are going to be 400 ft. tall...does anyone realize how ginormous that is??? And placed on top of East River Mountain??? You'll be able to see those things from miles away...

 

 

 

 

 

I got a flier on one of my vehicles a couple of weeks ago talking about the negatives of this massive project. One thing stood out to me. It said that if you were in sight of these massive structures that the home values on average decreased 30 to 65 percent. That being said, if you own a home on the north side of east river mountain it sucks. If you don't then I guess it's great.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I got a flier on one of my vehicles a couple of weeks ago talking about the negatives of this massive project. One thing stood out to me. It said that if you were in sight of these massive structures that the home values on average decreased 30 to 65 percent. That being said, if you own a home on the north side of east river mountain it sucks. If you don't then I guess it's great.

 

I would think they'd be more visible from the south side, they would likely have to have them based on the south side, but if people are wise they won't permit this. There was another good article written about it recently that basically backed up what I had read and posted, that this is an attempt for these big businesses to get major tax reductions for and to meet some of the new "green" guidelines that are either encouraging (at this point) or mandating that companies look into alternative sources of power, and are rewarded for doing so with big tax reductions.

This isn't about any advantages for tazewell county or this area people, this is about taking advantages of this area and it's people for big company gain. They already rape people with the cost of gas and power, we all agree about that, so people around here would be out of their minds to permit them to rape our beautiful mountains for the petty financial gains of some major gas and power companies to profit from, with that power produced at this area's expense to be used in big cities along the eastern seaboard at that..

 

 

another photo I saw online

 

[BigBlueAlum 12]

I would think they'd be more visible from the south side, they would likely have to have them based on the south side, but if people are wise they won't permit this. There was another good article written about it recently that basically backed up what I had read and posted, that this is an attempt for these big businesses to get major tax reductions for and to meet some of the new "green" guidelines that are either encouraging (at this point) or mandating that companies look into alternative sources of power, and are rewarded for doing so with big tax reductions.

This isn't about any advantages for tazewell county or this area people, this is about taking advantages of this area and it's people for big company gain. They already rape people with the cost of gas and power, we all agree about that, so people around here would be out of their minds to permit them to rape our beautiful mountains for the petty financial gains of some major gas and power companies to profit from, with that power produced at this area's expense to be used in big cities along the eastern seaboard at that..

 

 

another photo I saw online

 

 

 

 

But what about the free market? Do we want the government of Tazewell County controlling whether or not these companies can build these in Tazewell County? Isn't that more government regulation?

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

But what about the free market? Do we want the government of Tazewell County controlling whether or not these companies can build these in Tazewell County? Isn't that more government regulation?

 

I'm all for free of course market but I 100% support Tazewell county or any county being able to tell a big company that they can't build such a project, whether it be a windmill farm or a nuclear power plant in their backyard, it's the residents backyard. It's a project that is a huge impact on an area, so residents of that area should have the say in the quality of life of their area. It's not as if the companies can't and won't build their projects elsewhere, so no one is denying them free market, just denying them free market for their project on "our" mountain, hopefully that's the case.

I don't quite consider this the bad type of regulation you're referring to. Sort of like zoning laws that say no strip establishments or gambling within our town or city limits.

 

There's lots of other high ridges along the appalachians or blue ridges that run parallel to our mountains that would pick up just as much wind, not to mention the eastern Atlantic shore has how many hundreds of miles of coastlands that have considerably more consistent wind, and at 400 some feet they likely wouldn't even have to be that close to the actual shore, just inland from them some miles.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I read in the telegraph today as some of yall might have seen that the power companies are considering a windmill project in bland county to, what the heck, bland and tazewell county combined only make 1 of the most unique and beautiful geographical landscapes in the east, might as well ruin it all with clear cutting, windmills, and a sky of blinking lights. Not to mention how many thousands of acres of "our" mountain tops and ridges would become their private business property.

As for the lights, they said only every 3rd or 4th windmill would have a light, I somehow doubt that would be possible, but even so, devils advocate lets consider every 3rd windmill with lights, out of 60, that's still 20 lights high up between bluefield va and the divides. That's "a lot" of lights.

I've been against it from the start that's obvious but the more I read and consider it, they have to clear cut the mountain top for these, the mountain top ridge is home and a travel way for lots of black bear, lots of deer and bobcat to, they can't deny that these windmills kill bats in the thousands to, bats are crucial to the environment for insect control, even if they weren't I'd hate to see any bats killed by windmills.

I'm not going to concede all that to any out of the region big business so they can earn more $s and get government tax breaks for exploring developments in alternative sources of energy, the latter which is what much of this is really about.

Perhaps people should really press these people more on the reasons they don't have projects in "their" eastern va. counties in mind.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I've been doing a lot more reading on these windmills and the impact they have on the areas around them, from what I've read, most people regret ever permitting the wind companies to build windmills in their areas, that the wind companies are basically very assuring that these aren't harmful or loud before they're built, but obviously know better.

Decreased property values are only smaller considerations, of the people that are within a few miles of them many complain of headaches, ringing in their ears and lots of sleep problems. They say that animals that used to be common in the area are all but gone.

 

My thoughts are if it's that hard on people who are miles away, what impact would that have on bear, bobcat or deer or birds, or any animals since they hear much better than people and are much more sensitive, aside from the clear cutting of the mountain tops does anyone really think any animals "would" live anywhere close to these?

Our beautiful wildlife and mountains, I can't fathom sacrificing them to these big companies who care nothing about our area.

Is anyone really ready for a tazewell or bland or wise county with hardly any wildlife in the mountains and hills? Can anyone honestly say that wouldn't be a tragedy?

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Anyhow below is a letter from someone who lives by them and it echos many other letters or warnings from people who live with windmills.

 

 

 

"Cowperthwaite letter to Roxbury, ME residents

April 10, 2008 by Carol Cowperthwaite

Location:

Mars Hill, Maine

Dear Linda

 

Our story is very much like Wendy Todd's. We had moved away and our retirement dream was to move home, move home to old friends, peace, quiet, and country living. The first year after building our house was heaven. The quiet was so complete that we thought we had gone deaf. The wildlife on our lawn was so much fun.

 

We had heard about the windmills but when we asked how they would affect us if we bought the land, the town manager told us we wouldn't even see them, much less hear them because they were going on the front of the mountains. We believed them. That was our biggest mistake. At that time we had no idea that the town fathers had not even read the application that they had co-signed on or hired a lawyer to explain it to them. They had no idea what they had agreed to. They, in turn, had believed everything UPC had told them. The biggest lie of all was that there would be no noise or you had to be within 500'.to hear anything. I believe that is still in their propaganda.

 

We had one winter of quiet solitude then with the spring came giants traveling our roads, being stockpiled everywhere. Giant bull dozers and cranes took over our mountain. Roads three lanes wide were being cut through the trees.

 

Blasting began. We never knew when they were going to blast. The windows shook and ledge would land on our lawn because they wouldn't use mats. The heavy equipment would start up before daylight and go. What a shock it was to all of us when they blasted away the whole end of the mountain. The giant scar got bigger and bigger. Then were more huge scars across our beautiful mountain. The whole terrain was being devastated. When we saw the huge circles of raped land across the top of a mountain where generations of people had skied, hiked, picnicked, held sunrise services on Easter morning, hunted and four-wheeled, we knew we had been badly lied to and life around Mars Hill Mountain as we had known it was gone. The beauty and the access to the ridges would never be again.

 

A close friend of ours wanted to buy ten acres of land from us for a house lot. After he saw what was happening he decided he definitely did not want to live with the windmills in his front yard. Sadly, we agreed with him. Unfortunately, our dream of maybe extra retirement money was gone.

 

The massive white giants started turning and were on line in March of 2006. Our lives greatly changed that day. We had been upset over the blasting and the devastation of the mountain and the eyesore, but nothing compared to the noise. As they added more windmills on line, the louder they got. If we got up in the middle of the night, we couldn't get back to sleep. We closed the windows, the doors, had the furnace running and the drumming never stopped. On a foggy or snowy day it was always worse. Our t.v. flickers with each turn of the blades. We both spent those winter nights roaming around the house because we couldn't sleep. Then, the less we slept, the angrier we would become because of the situation. When I went out the front door, a sense of rage would hit me that I have never known before. Even after thirty years of teaching, raising two boys and going through a divorce has never produced the kind of rage I feel those windmills are pounding.

 

When our autistic, seizure-prone granddaughter comes to visit, we spend no time outdoors due to the shadowing effects and the strobing effects. The shadowing and strobing red lights are known to induce seizures.

 

My husband and I have both had depression from sleep deprivation and worry about our investments of land, etc. Insomnia has become a way of life for me. We are still on medications for these problems.

 

We are, by nature, outdoor people. Most of our days were spent outdoors with gardening, the dog, or just drinking tea on the porch. Now we do what we have to and then head inside and turn up the t.v. We have had no choices. We have had this lifestyle forced on to us.

 

When they start talking about tax breaks for the towns people, ours amounted to $151.00. For $151.00, we have lost our lifestyle forever. The windmill people are paying three to four mils to the town for taxes. We are paying twenty mils. So, yes, our lifestyle is greatly changed. Dreams of solitude and financial plans have been changed. We now have a choice -- put up with it, hate it but get used to it, or sell at a greatly reduced price or not at all. Suck up the loss and move.

 

If we had had our privacy invaded, been harassed or had trespassers on our land, it would be illegal. Because it is just noise, all we can do is live with it. If you live within two to three miles, I pity you because of the noise. If you live within fifty miles, I pity you because of the eyesore.

 

One more thing -- if you use your ridge for recreational uses, that will be gone. We are not allowed on that mountain at all. All access trails are gated or chained with no trespassing signs everywhere, even along the top of the mountain, just in case someone does get up there. They will tell you it is up to the landowners that they rent from, but that is another lie. Even with signed permission slips from the owners, try to find a way up.

 

You will have a hard time to fight these because our government receives money. Our State is 100% for wind power for bragging rights that Maine is a forerunner in "Green" and the DEP works for the State and their boss is the Governor. The DEP added a five decibel noise level so UPC would be in compliance to the application. Politics is a hard thing to fight.

 

But, one things if for sure! Once they are up and running, no matter what you do, they are not coming down until they fall down and certainly never in my life time.

 

We are not against wind power but strongly feel they have to be placed where the impact is less. They should never be within five miles of a dwelling. Also, money should be put in escrow to remove them when their earning power is gone or they are too expensive to repair. I worry about Maine becoming a windmill bone yard because no small town will ever afford to remove them."

[Beaverteeth 10]

I would rather see a power plant on East River Mountain. Atleast it would create 300 + jobs in the area. Windmills would only bring contractor's for about a year bringing no benefit to us.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Most windfarms are they're less than 20% productive at that.

But as for a power plant, investing in nuclear plants and such is still the way to go, but the green agenda is really getting in the way of realistic expectations, and many speculate a carbon tax would be the act that would end the u.s. economy completely. Anyhow that said, I'd rather not see anything on East River mountain, or any of our mountains, lots of room down low.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Are raptors threatened by industrial wind turbines?

 

Wind power is a unique threat to raptors (hawks, eagles, falcons, owls, and vultures) -- many of them already rare -- and other large birds, such as ducks, geese, swans, and cranes. The risk of collision not only threatens individual birds but also augments existing threats to their populations. The cumulative effect of multiple facilities may threaten the viable breeding of several species already in decline.

Do wind turbines kill more birds and bats than other human activities?

 

Promoters of industrial wind power often try to divert attention to the carnage wrought by office tower windows, cars, and housecats, as if two wrongs make a right. Even using the scant data inconsistently compiled by consultants hired by the wind power developers, it is clear that industrial wind turbines kill many more birds and bats per unit than these other causes, particularly raptors (such as eagles and hawks) and migrating bats and songbirds.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

Do wind turbines affect other animals besides birds and bats?

 

As with birds and bats, there are no reliable studies of the effect of industrial wind turbine facilities on other animals. The installation of such large structures in wild areas, along with supporting roads and transmission infrastructure and the clearing of trees on mountain ridges, inevitably has a negative effect, if only because of the loss, degradation, and fragmentation of habitat, especially ecologically vital interior forest. The turbines also move (producing noise and vibration) and are lit by strobes day and night, adding to the distressing impact they likely have.

 

Until good studies are done, we have anecdotal evidence such as the following about the effect of a wind facility on Backbone Mountain, West Virginia: "I looked around me, to a place where months before had been prime country for deer, wild turkey, and yes, black bear, to see positively no sign of any of the animals about at all. This alarmed me, so I scouted in the woods that afternoon. All afternoon, I found no sign, sight, or peek of any animal about."

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

This warrants everyone's consideration, exactly what I've written before, there are much better locations for windmills, but they target depressed areas where they expect "ignorant populations" to resist their windmill projects the least.

This specifically mentions the chesapeake bay area being avoided and appalachian areas being targeted.

 

This is from an article exposing the 10 biggest myths of windmills.

 

http://www.stopillwind.org/lowerlevel.php?content=topten_intro

 

# 5 Locals who oppose the wind industry are NIMBYS. "not in my back yard"

 

One of the most persistent hypocrisies from corporate wind and its supporters is the accusation that locals who resist the industry are selfishly holding back progress. However, many politicians who vote to enable industrial wind do so fully aware that windplants will be built in someone else's back yard, realizing they would not survive the political backlash if one were constructed in their district. Wind investors—and the politicians who enable them—live hundreds of miles away from the results of their handiwork. While there are many areas of good wind potential available, the industry focuses on rural, often economically depressed areas which don't have much money or political influence. In Maryland, for example, the Chesapeake Bay has the best overall wind potential in the state. Yet the wind industry, aware of the probable political repercussions, avoids this region, preferring instead to target Appalachia and the mountains in the far western region of the state. It is the old story of colonialism, with distant capital exploiting the people and resources of the hinterlands to give the illusion of progress.

 

Nedpower, one of the most aggressive wind companies in the country, seeks to construct a huge 200 wind turbine facility along a 14 mile strip of the Alleghany Front east of Mount Storm Lake in West Virginia. Frank Maisano, a Washington, DC lobbyist and media spokesman for Nedpower, said that any allegation that a wind-powered project will be an "eyesore" is generally a claim without merit." However, when asked by a reporter, he declined to say if he would want such a project built within two miles of his home. "I'm not living next to one, so I'm not going to answer hypothetical questions for you just for the sake of answering them," he said. (Charlotte, WV Gazette, November 30, 2005.)

 

As has been shown, there are legitimate, unselfish reasons for locals to be concerned about how massive windplants will affect their lives.

Edited March 30, 2009 by buzzsawBeaver

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

# 7

 

 

# 7. The wind industry will create many local jobs.

 

This is a cruel untruth, especially in economically depressed areas. Very few permanent jobs will likely be created—perhaps a couple of low wage maintenance employees. According to a report by the National Renewable Energy Lab on windplant jobs, the national average is one maintenance employee for every 12-15 turbines. A 20 turbine windplant in Meyersdale, Pennsylvania now employs only two maintenance employees. Forty miles south, the Mountaineer wind facility in West Virginia, with over 45 turbines, employs three to four workers. For two windplants proposed for Western Maryland (Clipper Windpower and Synergics Wind Energy, both LLCs), the developers have pledged to pay each of their maintenance employees little more than $18,000 annually, less than a living wage for a family of four in this country. The collective capital value of their facilities, however, is projected to be in the neighborhood of $140 million....

 

During windplant construction, a few security guards and some local earth moving crews will be hired for a few months, while the bulk of construction is typically completed by primarily foreign labor, since the turbines are often manufactured in Europe with warranties serviced by the manufacturer. A recent study by the Iowa Department of Natural Resources on the "Top of Iowa" windplant showed that, of the 200 total construction jobs, only 20 were local—and all disappeared within six months

[bluefieldRocks 14]

I just ran across this page concerning a similar situation in Mount Storm, WV. There are some actual photo's of what could be expected. IMO, they don't look that bad.

 

http://www.mtnhome4u.com/windmills.html

 

Note: Make sure you read the captions on each picture, some of the pictures are "scare tactics" that have been edited.

 

 

Yep those are the ones i'm talking about...They're about an hour out of Keyser.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Yep those are the ones i'm talking about...They're about an hour out of Keyser.

 

Those don't look all that bad, TBH.

Though, still definitely noticeable.

[bluefieldRocks 14]

They look very cool to be honest. I don't know the pros/cons of having them. But I do know they look pretty bitchin

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

These photos are more accurate of what could be expected

 

 

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hills/cc/gallery/index.htm#photos

[Popeye 32]

I think there's more to be consider here than just the preservation of our mountains.

 

Tazewell County has, historically, not been a business friendly area. If plans were not driven by local motivation and/or local, old monies, then rarely were business ventures granted much support. By allowing the wind farm , we as a county may finally be shedding the old molding shawl of a retirement community. Perhaps as this economic shift (hopefully) runs it course, the willingness of the citizens in our region to explore other business ventures and embrace infrastructure investment will pay off with other less offensive industries having taken notice. Perhaps our area will become valued for its willingness to move into a new era of reconstruction. Wind farms are not efficient and not visually appealing, but they just may be the jolt that our area needs.

 

If it means there may be a chance that our children can remain with in the region with the promise of a future, then I willing to plant a few "metal" oaks to see what will happen.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

I realize what you're suggesting but in my opinion it's very irresponsible to purposely make such a big mistake simply to motivate people towards business, fact is some areas will never be big business areas, and that said there's nothing wrong with quieter, more simple places, that in my opinion is 1 reason a lot of people like it here.

These windfarms aren't "that" uncommon, and I haven't read about a rural community yet that didn't have high expectations but that has anything good to say about them after they were built and in use, only warnings to oppose them at all costs. Sometimes it's wise to heed them.

These are the exact types of reasons they attempt to sell these to more rural communities without a lot of opportunity, because people in those communities tend to think they can't pass up an opportunity regardless of what it is. In my opinion it's times like this that really test a person or communities character.

If nothing else the Bible not only says that $ is the root of all evil, but that we have a responsibility to be good stewards of the land..