Graham football 2009??

[BigBlueAlum 12]

Oh and she graduated in '93, so you may not know her after all..?

 

 

Did UVA have a marching band in 1993? I thought they just started it back up a few years back.

 

BTW, Very good argument. I myself never considered Marching Band a sport. I can see the argument either way though.

[deuceswild 15]

UVAObserver, if he went more recently than '93, probably had more structured type of marching band or band altogether. And in defense of his argument, the band at UVA he was a part of is probably more rigorous from the sound of it. I think my sister said in '93 they "revolutionized the pep band". I don't know what that means actually, to be honest. UVAObserver probably has far better insight.

[BigBlueAlum 12]

UVAObserver, if he went more recently than '93, probably had more structured type of marching band or band altogether. And in defense of his argument, the band at UVA he was a part of is probably more rigorous from the sound of it. I think my sister said in '93 they "revolutionized the pep band". I don't know what that means actually, to be honest. UVAObserver probably has far better insight.

 

The marching Band started back up in 2003 or 2004, I believe. Actually, in 2001 our high school band was invited to preform during halftime of the UVA-Richmond football game. It was pretty sweet, and I remember the UVA pep band being there. Not that it matters, but it is certainly too different experiences.

Edited March 26, 2009 by BigBlueAlum

[Deleted Account 5,203]

The marching Band started back up in 2003 or 2004, I believe. Actually, in 2001 our high school band was invited to preform during halftime of the UVA-Richmond football game. It was pretty sweet, and I remember the UVA pep band being there. Not that it matters, but it is certainly too different experiences.

 

Believe me, the marching band started in the Fall of 2004. I was there, and I was a section leader. I remember it very well: 9/11/04, the Home Opener against UNC. A HUGE win.

 

Before that was the Pep Band, a group for which I have very little respect.

They practiced once/week, for 1 hour/night. That would barely qualify.

Edited March 27, 2009 by UVAObserver

[deuceswild 15]

Yeah, absolutely, no argument there at all. She's my step-sister and we're not that close (have quite a bit of a gap in our ages and did not exactly grow up together) but for some reason I want to say something like there was a controversy in her last year there and it wasn't until the final game of the year that they got to play at a home football game. Either way, she loved playing in the band and actually transferred to UVA to play in the band after one of her friends told her how much she loved it. This was after she went to play volleyball at a small private college in eastern Virginia (the name escapes me) for her freshman year. No doubt the marching band at UVA now is more demanding I would imagine. I don't even think my sister had an actual band director, haha.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Alright UVAObserver, here we go. So, while I refuse to dispute the dictionary you so gracefully dropped upon me, I can confidently say that I see your claim. Marching Band, if using the definitions you provided (I admit, I only read one. You've seen one definition for "sport", I figure you've seen them all, right?), can be "loosely" considered a sport. By that definition, one could say lots of things are sports. (e.g. Child birth, paper football, Riverdance, windmills, guitar hero, competitive eating (I would probably even consider that one for real), endurance beer drinking, and I even found "Marching Band" listed on Wikipedia's list of sports but so was backgammon). So while I would think you would want to distinguish Marching Band from backgammon, perhaps it is a sport if that is what you want it to be. But I thought to myself, even considering this definition, how many would actually consider it a sport using our modern ways of thinking and our modern day schema for the word. So, I set up a survey within the VT Survey service provided at survey.vt.edu and did a small, subjective evaluation. I had my friends forward it out to other folks in the band and anyone they knew that were willing to take the time to fill it out for me. There was also a comments box at the end and 11 people left comments which I didn't post here in lieu of space.

The results are as follows:

There were 37 total entries.

43% were Undergrad, 43% were graduate, 5% were neither.

(Nice dichotomy if I say so myself)

 

16% were or had been in the VT band, 24% had been in the ROTC band, and 59% were in neither.

 

49% were in the band in high school, 51% were not

 

I then provided the definition proposed by the Merriam-Webster link you provided and asked "Considering this definition, would you still consider marching band to be a sport?"

92% said no, 8% said yes.

 

If you would like to see the existence of this survey and the results please PM ME and I will gladly show them to you.

 

I also scoped 57 high school websites in Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee. 21 of the ones I viewed labeled their "Sports" as "Sports" and several others used "Athletics". But for either, I did not find band listed anywhere. I did however find band in categories such as "Clubs", "Activities", and just regular old "Band".

 

I did the same for 32 universities. Still no band.

 

So roughly 92% of an infinitesimal sample of Virginia Tech alum and current students still don't believe band is a sport and neither do 100% of the universities and high schools I looked at. I think most people interpret it as an interest or an art set into physical motion. Perhaps it should be universally regarded as a sport, I mean Wikipedia is on your side, and if that is your argument that is fine. But as of now, its not one in the public eye, including my own.

 

Now, to the personal jabs. I don't have problems with you or your posts...usually. I think its fair to say your posts, while often appearing to be short-worded and a mere "two-cents" to get your post count up, they are often insightful. More than I can say for one of my usual posts. You're a bright guy, no one would dispute that. My problem is (as I stated before) that I see a lot of misguided or misinformed assumptions. I try to avoid assumptions the best I can, I'm comfortable enough to admit I'm not bright enough to make assumptions if I have no evidence for backing them up. So for example, and what really sticks out to me, is that you questioned my military background. You have no idea about me or my military background, I even offer to say that I doubt you care. But I do have one, its not worth your time to question it. Also, probably to "toot" your own horn (pun intended) you made a subtle suggestion that your instrument was more physically demanding than my sisters. She played trombone for what its worth. Its not a tuba, but its not wooden either. Oh and she graduated in '93, so you may not know her after all..?

 

I don't want you to reconsider your stance however I have provided you with exactly what you asked for. Evidence toward my claim that marching band is not regarded as and probably never will be universally regarded as a sport no matter how bad you wish it to be or however many Merriam-Webster definitions you throw out suggesting otherwise. According to the Wikipedia link you sent me, you can refer to anything as a sport. Which is why I'm going to add "Paper-football" and "Rock, Paper, Scissors" to the list with Marching Band.

 

Again, if you don't believe in the authenticity of my survey and if you still care (I doubt you do, come on, we both have better things to ramble on about) PM me and we can see what we can do without you having a VT Login, even if it's just screen-shots.

 

 

Oh, and I apologize for the off-topic posts. Go Graham Football in 2009!!

 

I find it first prudent to address the issue of our posting. I did cross the line with some of what I posted, and I do apologize about that. If I'm wrong about something, I'll certainly admit as much. I make a few assumptions when I post, as many of us do on message boards at times. I certainly have no ill-will toward yourself, and I hope you have none toward me.

 

I do care about learning about people, and the fact that you have a military background does interest me. Having my father in the Navy, an uncle in the Air Force, and a Grandfather in the Army, I've seen and heard a fair share of their stories, especially of my dad's SEAL training. And I have met many military men in my travels. In addition, about your sister's instrument, I only made the claim I did because there is no wind marching instrument that is more physically demanding than sousaphone. Trombone's difficult, I'll concede that.

 

I have no doubts that you went to the lengths to do this survey. None at all, and I'm actually very interested to see those results. You've explained your processes quite well: your sampling size, from which the groups were drawn, methodology, the works. That's some objective evidence I was looking for, my friend. I have just a couple of issues with it.

 

1. 37 is an awfully small sample size, by no means statistically significant if we're going by the book in creating a scientifically-acceptable survey. Given the size of the Highty-Tighties, the Marching Virginians, and the control groups, we'd need anywhere from 6-12 times that number to approach statistical significance. But I'm just nitpicking (and it's been a while since I've taken statistics, anyway).

 

2. Band is distinct enough an entity that on multiple high school websites, it will have its own separate section. The public writ large would not expect band to be lumped in together with football, baseball, basketball, etc. In addition, many high schools (like Graham) have separate websites entirely for their bands. All universities I've ever come across have separately-maintained websites for their bands. UVA's no different; even though our band is funded by the athletic department (this is true: they receive their support through the athletic department), our band's website is not affiliated with the athletic department. However, it is affiliated through the main university's site, i.e.: http://www.virginia.edu/marchingband.

 

3. I actually like how you drew your samples. ~25% in the Highty Tighties, ~25% for the Marching Virginians, ~50% out of band, with ~50% having taken HS band and ~50% having not. I have to say, I'm not sure if that's coincidence or by design, but I like it.

 

I know marching band will never be universally regarded as a sport in the way football/basketball/baseball/etc. are. I don't think it's ingrained that way in the minds of the public. We'll have to agree to disagree about its claim to validity, you with your good evidence and me with mine. And I don't mind that. In fact, this has been one of the better discussions I've had on here in a while.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And I too, wish Graham the best in 2009. As long as D. Marrs is at the helm, I have my doubts.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Yeah, absolutely, no argument there at all. She's my step-sister and we're not that close (have quite a bit of a gap in our ages and did not exactly grow up together) but for some reason I want to say something like there was a controversy in her last year there and it wasn't until the final game of the year that they got to play at a home football game. Either way, she loved playing in the band and actually transferred to UVA to play in the band after one of her friends told her how much she loved it. This was after she went to play volleyball at a small private college in eastern Virginia (the name escapes me) for her freshman year. No doubt the marching band at UVA now is more demanding I would imagine. I don't even think my sister had an actual band director, haha.

 

I tell you, if there's any group at UVA that reveled in controversy, it was the Pep Band.

 

I won't lie, if the marching band weren't around, I'd have probably joined the Pep Band, just because I enjoy playing music. But heir little stunt at the Tire Bowl against WVU opened up the door for the Smith's to make their donations to athletics (which had been in the works since 2002 anyway) to fund the band. They crossed the line between satire and arrogant disrespect too often in their later years. And the Pep Band didn't treat us none too nicely in our first seasons, either. That's where most of my animosity toward them comes from.

 

I know on game weeks, it wasn't uncommon for me to put in 25-30 hours/week doing everything from rehearsals to marching to performing to pep rallies to Heaven knows what else.

[losheyhombres 11]

We had us a great one back there in them early 90's. I bet it was the best in the SWD, heck, maybe in all of southwest virginia. They was this one kid who could "castle" with the best of 'em. ;)

[fieldgeneral 10]

the weirdest thread ever.

 

from wondering if Marrs can motivate the kids and get them ready to play to wondering if jo bob and johnny are playing, someone is gay accoring to someone else, band doesn't get any money, band is a sport or isn't a sport, the men's boosters have 4 dudes, and the band is better than the football team, some band guy is critisizing the football team lol .

 

wow, I know there was more, but dang at least it's baseball season. Football is only a few short months away. We need some things to happen, because a lot of people are going crazy.

 

anyway, that was just my rant

[deuceswild 15]

I find it first prudent to address the issue of our posting. I did cross the line with some of what I posted, and I do apologize about that. If I'm wrong about something, I'll certainly admit as much. I make a few assumptions when I post, as many of us do on message boards at times. I certainly have no ill-will toward yourself, and I hope you have none toward me.

 

I do care about learning about people, and the fact that you have a military background does interest me. Having my father in the Navy, an uncle in the Air Force, and a Grandfather in the Army, I've seen and heard a fair share of their stories, especially of my dad's SEAL training. And I have met many military men in my travels. In addition, about your sister's instrument, I only made the claim I did because there is no wind marching instrument that is more physically demanding than sousaphone. Trombone's difficult, I'll concede that.

 

I have no doubts that you went to the lengths to do this survey. None at all, and I'm actually very interested to see those results. You've explained your processes quite well: your sampling size, from which the groups were drawn, methodology, the works. That's some objective evidence I was looking for, my friend. I have just a couple of issues with it.

 

1. 37 is an awfully small sample size, by no means statistically significant if we're going by the book in creating a scientifically-acceptable survey. Given the size of the Highty-Tighties, the Marching Virginians, and the control groups, we'd need anywhere from 6-12 times that number to approach statistical significance. But I'm just nitpicking (and it's been a while since I've taken statistics, anyway).

 

2. Band is distinct enough an entity that on multiple high school websites, it will have its own separate section. The public writ large would not expect band to be lumped in together with football, baseball, basketball, etc. In addition, many high schools (like Graham) have separate websites entirely for their bands. All universities I've ever come across have separately-maintained websites for their bands. UVA's no different; even though our band is funded by the athletic department (this is true: they receive their support through the athletic department), our band's website is not affiliated with the athletic department. However, it is affiliated through the main university's site, i.e.: http://www.virginia.edu/marchingband.

 

3. I actually like how you drew your samples. ~25% in the Highty Tighties, ~25% for the Marching Virginians, ~50% out of band, with ~50% having taken HS band and ~50% having not. I have to say, I'm not sure if that's coincidence or by design, but I like it.

 

I know marching band will never be universally regarded as a sport in the way football/basketball/baseball/etc. are. I don't think it's ingrained that way in the minds of the public. We'll have to agree to disagree about its claim to validity, you with your good evidence and me with mine. And I don't mind that. In fact, this has been one of the better discussions I've had on here in a while.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And I too, wish Graham the best in 2009. As long as D. Marrs is at the helm, I have my doubts.

 

Haha, well no hard feelings here. It was a good discussion. I didn't see your reply here until today and I have already deleted the survey. But for what it's worth, none of the comments provided by anyone really said anything insightful. I was actually disappointed in that respect. Mostly stuff like, "Because it just ain't" and "This is dumb". And someone had a seizure on their keyboard and submitted it.... And I was surprised at how down the middle the sample was, too. I don't know how many people it was actually forwarded to eventually, but I was surprised 37 even took the time to complete it. College kids of all degrees can get awfully bored... as evident by our lengthy band discussion.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Haha, well no hard feelings here. It was a good discussion. I didn't see your reply here until today and I have already deleted the survey. But for what it's worth, none of the comments provided by anyone really said anything insightful. I was actually disappointed in that respect. Mostly stuff like, "Because it just ain't" and "This is dumb". And someone had a seizure on their keyboard and submitted it.... And I was surprised at how down the middle the sample was, too. I don't know how many people it was actually forwarded to eventually, but I was surprised 37 even took the time to complete it. College kids of all degrees can get awfully bored... as evident by our lengthy band discussion.

 

Indeed. It's always fun to have these sorts of discussions. These are some of the ones I'll remember on down the line.

And I wish I could get back down to see Graham play a game sometime.

It's been literally 4 years for me, and I've seen 1 in the last 7.

Time flies...

[SteveEurkel 11]

Indeed. It's always fun to have these sorts of discussions. These are some of the ones I'll remember on down the line.

And I wish I could get back down to see Graham play a game sometime.

It's been literally 4 years for me, and I've seen 1 in the last 7.

Time flies...

 

Don't you ever wish that on yourself.

[GrahamPG44 11]

I went to Graham and as I said, the Big G Marching Band hasn't been good since Jimmy Jones was directing them...and yes, Richlands' band IS better...heck, Bluefield's band is better and they only have 25 kids...

 

okay gman again with putting graham! dont even tell me to take of the maroon and gold glasses cause this time your just being stupid grahams band is by far better than bluefields (no offense to bluefield) im starting to think u got beat up alot at graham and u have been carrying around this grudge for however long u have been outta school OR maybe your just deaf im not sure but in this case our wrong sorry

[GMan 3,569]

maybe your just deaf

 

Sometimes, after listening to Graham's band play off-key and hit tons of sour notes, I wish I was deaf...:eek:

[TonyMontana 10]

Sometimes, after listening to Graham's band play off-key and hit tons of sour notes, I wish I was deaf...:eek:

 

Gman aren't u like 30 something and look at you....your on the internet talking smack about a bunch of 16 and 17 yr. Come on can you not say one nice thing? lol It's kinda ridicolous if you ask me, I thought most 30 yr. played raquet ball or something? Get on with your life man.

[SteveEurkel 11]

Gman aren't u like 30 something and look at you....your on the internet talking smack about a bunch of 16 and 17 yr. Come on can you not say one nice thing? lol It's kinda ridicolous if you ask me, I thought most 30 yr. played raquet ball or something? Get on with your life man.

 

OOOOOH WEEE!!! Thems fightin words'!

[GrahamPG44 11]

Sometimes, after listening to Graham's band play off-key and hit tons of sour notes, I wish I was deaf...:eek:

 

im going with u got beat up alot at graham

[Deleted Account 5,203]

okay gman again with putting graham! dont even tell me to take of the maroon and gold glasses cause this time your just being stupid grahams band is by far better than bluefields (no offense to bluefield)...

 

From someone who's been around the band world probably more than anyone on this forum, I agree that Bluefield's band is indeed not better than Graham's.

Bluefield's band hasn't been better than Graham's since about 1999.

Not coincidentally, this happened when BHS switched to block scheduling. That's death to a band program...

[bhs7695 185]

From someone who's been around the band world probably more than anyone on this forum, I agree that Bluefield's band is indeed not better than Graham's.

Bluefield's band hasn't been better than Graham's since about 1999.

Not coincidentally, this happened when BHS switched to block scheduling. That's death to a band program...

 

Bluefield High switched to block scheduling around '94.

[g20man 10]

From someone who's been around the band world probably more than anyone on this forum, I agree that Bluefield's band is indeed not better than Graham's.

QUOTE]

 

THANK YOU

if some of these ppl were actually in band then they would know how much better graham is

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Bluefield High switched to block scheduling around '94.

 

Then I stand corrected.

And I now wonder what made the band's size decrease by nearly 2/3.

That happened even while Saunders was still there...

[Annual Man 10]

CAn we get back on the subject of....football?

[GMan 3,569]

CAn we get back on the subject of....football?

 

And this coming from someone on the Annual staff...