Cy Young Award Shocker!

[Deleted Account 5,203]

At least Ron Paul would have changed something by now. He was more passionate and intelligent than any of the candidates.

 

And believe me I know this has already been discussed, but I still can't get over how stubborn people are to decide their votes based on anything other than polices that people are obviously whole-hearted in believing. I can understand why people voted for him but apparently the majority of America couldn't see through Obama. I hope he does some major changes within our country, but I can't say anything good about him untill he does something that actually benefits the this nation as a whole.

 

Ron Paul wouldn't have changed anything. The man is a libertarian in the strictest sense of the word, and that's by no means a compliment. The answer to every question is not: "we need less of X", and that's the libertarian mantra. Not to mention, he was never anything better than a fringe candidate, and I'm stretching to even call him that.

[bucfan64 309]

Ron Paul wouldn't have changed anything. The man is a libertarian in the strictest sense of the word, and that's by no means a compliment. The answer to every question is not: "we need less of X", and that's the libertarian mantra. Not to mention, he was never anything better than a fringe candidate, and I'm stretching to even call him that.

 

WE DO NEED LESS GOVERNMENT!

 

Ron Paul was indeed a fringe candidate. However, his presence on the political scene and during the campaign has led to the largest growth of Libertarianism in this country since our founding.

 

His success has led millions to question the role of government, their political views and party allegiance. In my opinion that is what this country needs the most right now.

 

Before you diss Libertarians too much, you need to take into consideration the fact that most of our founding fathers were Libertarians!

[frontierman95 10]

WE DO NEED LESS GOVERNMENT!

 

Ron Paul was indeed a fringe candidate. However, his presence on the political scene and during the campaign has led to the largest growth of Libertarianism in this country since our founding.

 

His success has led millions to question the role of government, their political views and party allegiance. In my opinion that is what this country needs the most right now.

 

Before you diss Libertarians too much, you need to take into consideration the fact that most of our founding fathers were Libertarians!

 

I've done some research on the Constitution party. It seems to be as close to what the founders wrote as anybody. Would definitely be less government then the two parties we have now.

Of course there are not many members of it who have a legitimate shot for any office in our present day

[fieldgeneral 10]

Wasn't that the whole intent of the joke, to poke fun at the Nobel Prize awarded to Obama??? Just because it was against Obama, it's not funny??

 

Nancy Pelosi is that you???

 

Intent was what I was getting at. Just for shits and giggles it was funny. If it hadn't been for the shitstorm and crying and whining all the republicans did and those anti-obama folks did as well, it would be different. It seemed to me it was meant in a more sarcastic use than humor......but that's just me.

[fieldgeneral 10]

I do not appreciate the fact that you referred to me as STUPID. I can assure you that although I may have dissenting views with the president, I am not "stupid" enough to believe that the self proclaimed architect of change is doing what is right for this country.

 

I am not "stupid" enough to think that the President of the USA is beyond criticism and without fault. I am not "stupid" enough to believe that spending more money is the way out of debt. I am not "stupid" enough to actually think that the ideas of Hugo Chavez, Chairman Mao, V.I. Lenin and Karl Marx are ones that we need for America!

 

I most assuredly am not ANTI-AMERICAN. I love my country, the first amendment assures me the right to express my views without fear of being silenced by a GOVERNMENT. I thank God for that right and I am not so "stupid" that I can't see what is happening in this country. Perhaps if you would pause for a moment in your life and find out what political theory is all about, then you too would be able to see beyond the fascade and recognize that what is happening in America NOW resembles the early 1900 progressive movements in the U.S., Germany, Italy and Russia. In case you don't know or are too "stupid" as you would say, three of those four movements turned out BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDD!

 

Those of us who love our country feel a dire need to make known the facts as we hear them, whether it be to our friends, family the general public or in this case fellow conservatives on this forum. If we occasionaly divulge into humor, that is our choice, as long as it is not tasteless, racist and/or vulgar and is not considered libel.

 

Finally, as Meatloaf says "two out of three ain't bad!" I am not stupid, I am not ANTI-AMERICAN, but alas .....I must admit, I am ANTI-OBAMA!

 

I do not hate the man, I do not hate his office, but I do despise his policies, his ideology and the vision that he has for this country. My wish is that the country would prosper while he is in office, why in the heck would I want the guy to fail? If he fails, we fail, if he comes up with a good idea, I'll support it, but at this time, his ideas are too radical for my taste. I do not believe that he is directing our country in the right direction. I have every right to this opinion and I am not going to let someone with a Kool Aid mustache silence my views!

 

 

LOL.....I like my kool aid. Anyway, I never said you were stupid. I actually gave a couple categories. I'm sorry that is the one you chose to address or feel was you more than the others. I am just simply saying that there are those in this country and on this board who gripe bitch and moan if the president eats a cheeseburger, plays basketball, wipes his butt, or sneezes. You have every right in the world to agree / disagree with him and his policies. You also have every right to voice your opinion. I am referring to those of you who threw a fit because he won a nobel peace prize....which he said himself he didn't deserve.....those of you who had a cow saying he wasn't an American (the birth certificate) crap......he's muslim, he's antiAmerican, he's the anti-christ, he's the messiah and so forth. Those people are stupid and need a life. If you fall into those false accusations that are simply crazy, then if the shoe fits........wear it.

[NewHampshireRed 94]

How does G. W. Bush go down as worse than Jimmy Carter?? How does everything that came out of Bush's mouth not make sense

 

Here I will answer your question!

 

 

Top 10 Bush Lies

 

1. "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for

the final proof, the smoking gun that could come in the

form of a mushroom cloud."

[bush Remarks, Cincinnati OH, 10/7/02]

Fact: Saddam Did not Have Chief Requirements for Nuclear

Weapons

The Washington Post reported, "What Hussein did not have

was the principal requirement for a nuclear weapon, a

sufficient quantity of highly enriched uranium or

plutonium. And the U.S. government, authoritative

intelligence officials said, had only circumstantial

evidence that Iraq was trying to obtain those

materials." Inspectors in postwar Iraq have "found the

former nuclear weapons program, described as a 'grave

and gathering danger' by President Bush and a 'mortal

threat' by Vice President Cheney, in much the same

shattered state left by U.N. inspectors in the 1990s."

[Washington Post, 8/10/03, 1/7/04]

2. "The British government has learned that Saddam

Hussein recently sought significant quantities of

uranium from Africa."

[bush, State of the Union, 1/28/03]

Fact: Bush Administration Knew Claim Was False

In March 2002, both the CIA and State Department

learned that evidence linking Iraq to Niger was

unfounded. In October, CIA Director Tenet personally

intervened with Condoleezza Rice's deputy National

Security Advisor to have the charge removed from Bush's

speech to the nation. Rice herself was sent a memo

debunking the claim. In January, just days before Bush

uttered the false charge CIA officials tried again to

remove the language, but the White House insisted it

remain -- with added the caveat that they had received

the information from British sources.

[bush State of the Union, 1/28/03; Time, 7/21/03 Issue;

Hadley/Bartlett Gaggle, 7/22/03; New York Times, 7/13/03;

Washington Post, 7/20/03; NPR, 6/19/03]

3. "In an interview with Polish television on May 30,

Mr. Bush cited the trailers [found in postwar Iraq] as

evidence that the United States had 'found the weapons

of mass destruction' it was looking for."

[New York Times, 6/26/03]

Fact: State Department Said Bush Rushed to Judgment

The New York Times reported, "The State Department's

intelligence division is disputing the Central

Intelligence Agency's conclusion that mysterious

trailers found in Iraq were for making biological

weapons, United States government officials said today.

In a classified June 2 [2003] memorandum, the officials

said, the department's Bureau of Intelligence

and Research said it was premature to conclude that the

trailers were evidence of an Iraqi biological weapons

program, as President Bush has done...Administration

officials said the State Department agency was given no

warning that the C.I.A. report was being produced, or

made public." [New York Times, 6/26/03]

4. "The 'Mission Accomplished' sign, of course, was

put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln

saying that their mission was accomplished."

[bush, News Conference, 10/28/03]

Fact: Sign Was Produced by White House

"White House press secretary Scott McClellan later

acknowledged that the sign was produced by the White

House," though he claimed that the Lincoln's crew had

requested some sort of banner. According to reports,

"The man responsible for the banner, Scott Sforza, a

former ABC producer now with the White House

communications office...is known for the

production of the sophisticated backdrops that appear

behind Mr. Bush with the White House message of the

day, like 'Helping Small Business,' repeated over and

over."

[Washington Post, 10/29/03; New York Times, 10/29/03]

Bush on the Economy

 

 

5. "Our budget will run a deficit that will be small

and short-term."

[bush, State of the Union, 2002]

Fact: Deficit Will Be Largest in History and Will

Exceed $400 Billion Every Year for Next Ten Years

The deficit will exceed $400 billion every year

through 2014. By 2014, the deficit will reach $708

billion. In 2004, the deficit is projected to reach a

record high of $477 billion, dwarfing the previous

record of $290 billion posted by Bush's father in 1992.

[Congressional Budget Office, 1/26/04, 2/27/04;

Center on Budget & Policy Priorities, 1/21/04, 2/1/04]

6. "Tax relief is central to my plan to encourage

economic growth, and we can proceed with tax relief

without fear of budget deficits, even if the economy

softens," Bush promised.

[bush Remarks at Western Michigan University, 3/27/01]

Fact: Bush Deficits Due Largely to Tax Cuts

In 2002, due largely to Bush's tax cuts, the federal

government posted a deficit of $158 billion and

returned to deficit for the first time since 1997. In

2004, Bush's three tax cuts over as many years reduced

revenues by $270 billion. Over 35 percent of the $9.9

trillion deterioration from 2002-2011 is due to Bush's

tax cuts. By 2014, tax cuts will account for 40 percent

of the deterioration. Despite Bush's claims to the

contrary, only 6 percent of the $477 billion deficit in

2004 is due to the lackluster economy.

[Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, 10/21/03;

Congressional Budget Office, 3/04; CBO, Historical

Budget Data, Table 1 http://www.cbo.gov; Center on

Budget and Policy Priorities, 10/27/03]

 

Bush on His Own Policies

7. "We must uncover every detail and learn every

lesson September the 11th."

[bush 11/27/02]

Fact: Bush Initially Opposed Independent 9-11

Commission

Bush opposed an independent inquiry into 9/11,

arguing it would duplicate a probe conducted by

Congress. In July 2002, his administration issued a

"statement of policy" that read "...the Administration

would oppose an amendment that would create a new

commission to conduct a similar review [to Congress's

investigation]." [statement of Administration

Policy, Executive Office of the President, 7/24/02;

Los Angeles Times, 11/28/02]

8. "Bush had pushed hard for the Medicare drug benefit,

but said he would not sign anything that exceeded

$400 billion."

[boston Globe, 1/30/04]

Fact: Bush Administration Intentionally Hid Cost of

Plan To Win Votes in Congress

In late January 2004, the Administration announced

they had underestimated the total cost of the package

by $135 billion. Bush relied on a $400 billion figure

for the first decade of the prescription drug benefit

in persuading fiscal conservatives to support the plan

last November. But less than two months after signing

the legislation, and two years before the benefit

becomes available to seniors, the Department of Health

and Human Services revised the number up to $535

billion. According to the Washington Post, "Among a

small group of lawmakers who negotiated the bill's

final version, 'it was an open secret' that

administration officials believed 'there is no way this

is $400 billion.'"

[New York Times, 1/30/04; Washington Times, 12/8/03;

Washington Post, 1/31/04; Boston Globe, 1/30/04;

New York Times, 2/2/04]

9. "We will require all power plants to meet clean air

standards in order to reduce emissions of...carbon

dioxide."

[bush speech, "A Comprehensive National Energy Policy,"

9/29/00, Saginaw, MI]

Fact: Bush Overruled Whitman, Broke Campaign Promise to

Regulate Carbon Dioxide Emissions

In March 2001, in a letter to Republican Senators,

Bush overruled then-E.P.A. Administrator Christine

Todd Whitman and backed off a campaign pledge to

regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants,

after encountering strong resistance from the coal

and oil industries, as well as Republicans. "I do not

believe, however, that the government should impose on

power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon

dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air

Act," Bush wrote in his letter. Many conservationists

view curbing carbon dioxide emissions, like "greenhouse

gases," as a key to reducing global warming. [AP, 3/13/01;

Washington Post, 3/14/01; Bush letter to Senator Chuck

Hagel, 3/13/01]

 

Bush on Bush

10. "I'm a uniter, not a divider." [bush,

Austin American-Statesman, 7/30/00]

Fact: No, He's a Divider

The Washington Post reported, "As Bush begins the

final year of his term with Tuesday night's State of

the Union address, partisans on both sides say the

tone of political discourse is as bad as ever -- if

not worse." One senior administration official said,

Bush could have built "trust and goodwill" by

pursuing more broadly appealing initiatives. One

former Bush aide said the White House "relished the

'us versus them' thing." [Washington Post, 1/18/04]

After former Ambassador Joseph Wilson publicly

challenged Bush's claim that Iraq sought uranium in

Africa, his wife--a covert CIA operative--was exposed

by columnist Robert Novak. Novak said her identity was

given to him by senior administration officials. "A

senior administration official said that before Novak's

column ran, two top White House officials called at

least six Washington journalists and disclosed the

identity and occupation of Wilson's wife...

'Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge,'

the senior official said of the alleged leak. Sources

familiar with the conversations said the leakers were

seeking to undercut Wilson's credibility." [Washington

Post, 9/28/03]

Bush called on senior White House advisers and the

Republican Party leadership to wage attacks against

Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. According to the

Washington Times, "The White House is escalating its

attacks against Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle...

[W]ith polls showing the Republican Party is losing

some support in its handling of the economy, President

Bush last week ordered senior advisers to take the

gloves off and sharpen their rhetoric." [Washington

Times, 12/7/01]

 

Flip Flops

 

 

 

Bush is against campaign finance reform;

then he's for it.

Bush is against a Homeland Security Department;

then he's for it.

Bush is against a 9/11 commission;

then he's for it.

Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation;

then he's for it.

Bush is against nation building;

then he's for it.

Bush is against deficits;

then he's for them.

Bush is for slashing overtime pay for American workers

then he is against it.

Bush is for free trade;

then he's for tariffs on steel;

then he's against them again.

Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli

Palestinian conflict;

then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.

Bush is for states right to decide on gay marriage,

then he is for changing the constitution.

Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders

(fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.

Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ...

then he cuts benefits.

Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find

Osama bin Laden.

Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and

I really don't care.

Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and

then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.

Bush talks about helping education and increases

mandates while cutting funding.

Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea.

Now he will

Bush goes to Bob Jones University.

Then say's he shouldn't have.

Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on

whether to sanction military action against Iraq.

Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote.

Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by

the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.

Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who

enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox,

he's against it.

Edited October 16, 2009 by mapper

[frontierman95 10]

Remind me again why Bob Jones University was a black eye on Bush?

[NewHampshireRed 94]

Remind me again why Bob Jones University was a black eye on Bush?

 

because Bob Jones U is a catholic church school that strongly doesn't believe in interracial dating/marriage . And Bush was criticized for not speaking out against the school while he was there about racism. Then he turned around and said he should have never went to the school he was not aware of their beliefs.

[bucfan64 309]

Mapper dont get your panties in a wad, but I never said that you were going to vote for anyone.

 

It appears that from your perspective...........

 

When We post FACTS ABOUT Obama,it is anti-American

 

but

 

When we post FACTS ABOUT Bush it is patriotic and justifiable.

 

WHO'S THE HYPOCRITE HERE?

 

 

 

FACTS ARE FACTS Whether they are about Bush or Obama. For the record, I am not a Bush fan!

 

Opinions are just that......opinions, unless they are supported by facts!

 

You have every right to your opinion, but don't think for one second that I am not going to share mine, whether you want to hear it or not! By the way let me remind you of something, this isn't the United States of the Offended. If you don't like my views, tough! Stop reading my posts!

Edited October 17, 2009 by bucfan64

[Guest BEAVERTAIL]

I like your response BucFan, everyone seems to be a hypocrit these days, especially since the power has shifted in the WH.

 

And in addition, those facts are a joke. (The First has been widely debated on this site and made known Bush was not the only one at fault aka Clinton) But what makes it better is that most of them are replied with in the first sentence "According to the Washington Post"... that paper employs a staff full of Lefty Limbaugh's lol. And you all complain about Fox News...

[frontierman95 10]

because Bob Jones U is a catholic church school that strongly doesn't believe in interracial dating/marriage . And Bush was criticized for not speaking out against the school while he was there about racism. Then he turned around and said he should have never went to the school he was not aware of their beliefs.

 

But predominantly black schools are not racial? All female schools are not sexist?

 

I am not trying to start something. Bush should have had a stance and stay with it and that is the topic of the thread, but come on? Criticize somebody for not attacking a policy of a place they are speaking???

[zach52 10]

I did a test and it said I was to vote for ron paul and be a constitution party member :)

[NewHampshireRed 94]

But predominantly black schools are not racial? All female schools are not sexist?

 

I am not trying to start something. Bush should have had a stance and stay with it and that is the topic of the thread, but come on? Criticize somebody for not attacking a policy of a place they are speaking???

 

I strongly agree with you, but given bush's track record it only gave haters another thing to throw against.

[frontierman95 10]

I strongly agree with you, but given bush's track record it only gave haters another thing to throw against.

 

And Obama winning the Nobel Prize has given his haters, those who think he didn't have the experience to be president, another stone to throw as well.

 

Again, not trying to rile anyone up, just trying to contribute to the discussion.

[bhs7695 185]

Here I will answer your question![/b]

 

By and large, every president has been criticized for their decisions and all have lied at some point or another. Obama has already lied to get the votes he needed and he is already being criticized for things his administration is trying to do. He is not telling the public everything about his health care plan and he also lied about his stimulus plan to fund his own agenda and it's putting this country further into trouble. During the Obama campaign, he told voters that he would fight for the coal industry as coal is what America needs. Well, why is his administration suspending current coal permits in WV, VA, & KY and not granting any new permits that have been filed? Why is he trying to cram cap & trade through? He IS trying to kill the coal industry and hundreds and thousands of jobs in the process. Not to mention a entire state in the process. Actions speak louder than words.

 

My biggest problem with Obama is that he is not a patriot and he wants to fundamentally change that way the U.S. operates over night. It's stupid. In the worse recession in over 50 years and his administration wants to shut down industries in the U.S. which moves jobs out of the country! The way his administration wants the government to operate has never worked in the history of the world, so why in the hell pursue it????

Edited October 20, 2009 by bhs7695

[Popeye 32]

People also need to focus on a few more issues:

 

The Climate Treaty

Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement

CIFTA

START(did not work previously)

 

 

I urge all to keep close checks on the current administration's plans for the issues that are at hand. But dont get lost in what the media gives you and ignore other issues that this "transparent" administration is trying to push thru without the citizens knowledge.

[fieldgeneral 10]

And Obama winning the Nobel Prize has given his haters, those who think he didn't have the experience to be president, another stone to throw as well.

 

Again, not trying to rile anyone up, just trying to contribute to the discussion.

 

Bush himself gave reasons for "stones" or whatever to be thrown at him. Obama's Nobel nod had nothing to do with him. He hiimself said he didn't deserve it. Talk to those in Sweeden.

[frontierman95 10]

Bush himself gave reasons for "stones" or whatever to be thrown at him. Obama's Nobel nod had nothing to do with him. He hiimself said he didn't deserve it. Talk to those in Sweeden.

 

And Obama has given plenty of reasons for stones to be thrown at him. A lot of people say he didn't and doesn't have the experience to be the leader of the US. The Nobel Prize is just another example of Obama getting something for nothing.

 

Again, I am not a republican nor democrat...I think both parties are worthless and really the same. I just disagree with excessive government which is where we have been heading for several, several years now.

[NewHampshireRed 94]

And Obama has given plenty of reasons for stones to be thrown at him. A lot of people say he didn't and doesn't have the experience to be the leader of the US. The Nobel Prize is just another example of Obama getting something for nothing.

 

Again, I am not a republican nor democrat...I think both parties are worthless and really the same. I just disagree with excessive government which is where we have been heading for several, several years now.

 

But the thing is Obama didn't ask for this award. So hate on him over it. Now for other reasons, sure he is fair game. But this wasn't anything he proposed he was just selected.

[buzzsawBeaver 12]

[Popeye 32]

That was perfect!!!!!