bucfan64 309 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 To firmly establish the blame of the poor economy on one party or political group is nonsense. Both parties are responsible for this mess that we are in, true the country spent money like it was going out of style during the Bush years, but what is happening now is we are running at WARP SPEED, towards a collapse. For anyone to even suggest that Obama and his minions have no part in this matter, that they only "inherited," this from the Bush administration is an open admittance of blind ignorance or rank stupidity! Nothing less! Sharing my money with other folks is not charity it is THEFT! Plain and simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlueAlum 12 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I'm sorry...I thought you would be able to read the above links and understand why many of us in the business world have lost thousands of dollars since obama took office. http://www.standardandpoors.com/indices/sp-500/en/us/?indexId=spusa-500-usduf--p-us-l-- From June of 2008 until May of 2009, the S & P index plumetted from 1200 to just above 600. That of course doesn't tell the whole story, but during that period many people lost jobs and money invested. The stock market almost crashed. Or did you conveniently for get that period of time? S & P has rebounded to reflect your figures, but when you've already lost your investment it really doesn't matter how much recovery has taken place since that time. That's when many of us lost our money. I hope that helps clear it up for you. How can you blame all of your losses on "Obama's 'change' agenda", when over half of the time period you just specified was under a different administration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 How can you blame all of your losses on "Obama's 'change' agenda", when over half of the time period you just specified was under a different administration? Like I tried to explain, S & P doesn't tell the whole story. All of the money was not lost in stocks. Only a small percentage. But the stock market crash, something Obama was going to protect us all from, affected me in a big way. Bottom line, my customers stopped shopping, my savings dwindled to support my family, and the rest is history. I survived, and I'm slowly recovering, but it's only because of my personal committment to my business and my family, not because of a 40% increase in the S & P index. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Where to start off with this gem, which is incorrect on so many different levels? First, as you don't know the makeup of Blue's retirement portfolio, you can't make any educated guess whatsoever on how, or IF, it is affected by the S&P 500. If Blue is a responsible investor, and I bet he is, then his portfolio is widely diverse. If may include stocks of one of those 500 companies, but again, it may very well not. Only a freaking moron would put their entire portfolio on the stock market. I have little experience with stocks, and I know this. Until you can substantiate this, and you'll never be able to, you need to quit making invalid inferences. Second, while the S&P 500 has gained 40%, this is at best misleading. If you paid attention in early 2009, THE BOTTOM FELL OUT OF THE STOCK MARKET. There was no place to go but up! The market is STILL below 2004 levels, BTW. http://www.tradersnarrative.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/S&P%20500%20index%20comparison%20to%20cboe%20put%20call%20ratio%20Jan%202010.png Third, looking at the S&P to gauge how the economy is doing makes me LOL. Because stocks, being speculative, are NOT a sound indicator of how the market is doing in general. Look at the employment rate. Look at the hiring freezes in the public sector. Look how the market is flooded with college graduates that are clawing to find a job. Then tell me about how "the S&P 500 is up 40% since Obama's been in office." I weep for America's future, if this is the line of thinking of America's youth. Thank you for saying what I was having trouble getting across. My fear is it won't matter to some who choose to close their eyes and follow Obama to their demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlueAlum 12 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Like I tried to explain, S & P doesn't tell the whole story. All of the money was not lost in stocks. Only a small percentage. But the stock market crash, something Obama was going to protect us all from, affected me in a big way. Bottom line, my customers stopped shopping, my savings dwindled to support my family, and the rest is history. I survived, and I'm slowly recovering, but it's only because of my personal committment to my business and my family, not because of a 40% increase in the S & P index. I understand that. But when you make a comment like this "It's about people like me, a 58 year old man who has lost thousands of dollars in his retirement fund under Obama's "change" agenda." It makes it sound like you are solely blaming the Obama administration for the troubles you have experienced. That is simply not true. Sure, Obama has not made the changes that people hoped he would make, but he is not the sole reason the economy is in the dumps. And he is not the only person to blame for your troubles with your business and your retirement plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I understand that. But when you make a comment like this "It's about people like me, a 58 year old man who has lost thousands of dollars in his retirement fund under Obama's "change" agenda." It makes it sound like you are solely blaming the Obama administration for the troubles you have experienced. That is simply not true. Sure, Obama has not made the changes that people hoped he would make, but he is not the sole reason the economy is in the dumps. And he is not the only person to blame for your troubles with your business and your retirement plan. But I thought Obama was going to be our savior! That's what he promised when he campaigned on "change" wasn't it? He said "This is our time". Yes, things got bad under the Bush administration, but they've gotten progressively worse under Obama. And I don't see any of this progressive "change" affecting me in a positive way. It's always about blaming Bush when this subject comes up, but never about taking responsibility for electing a man who has no clue when it comes to the economy, or foreign affairs for that matter. It's Chicago style politics at its finest. The Healthcare bill is a perfect example. He's hellbent on ramming it down our throats no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlueAlum 12 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 (edited) But I thought Obama was going to be our savior! That's what he promised when he campaigned on "change" wasn't it? He said "This is our time". Yes, things got bad under the Bush administration, but they've gotten progressively worse under Obama. And I don't see any of this progressive "change" affecting me in a positive way. It's always about blaming Bush when this subject comes up, but never about taking responsibility for electing a man who has no clue when it comes to the economy, or foreign affairs for that matter. It's Chicago style politics at its finest. The Healthcare bill is a perfect example. He's hellbent on ramming it down our throats no matter what. But that has nothing to do with the fact that you keep laying the blame completely on him, time after time. If you thought from the beginning that he was not the answer (and according to your post before the election, you did) then why do you seem so upset and surprised that he had not magically fixed all your problems. After all, why would you want the government fixing your problems anyway...that's not what they are for, right? I never expected Obama to be our savior, and I never expected him to fix all the problems in this country. Just like I wouldn't expect John McCain to either. I have a sinking feeling that if McCain would have won last November, then all the Democrats would be trashing him just as much for the lack of progress that has occurred with our current situation. Edited March 16, 2010 by BigBlueAlum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 (edited) But that has nothing to do with the fact that you keep laying the blame completely on him, time after time. If you thought from the beginning that he was not the answer (and according to your post before the election, you did) then why do you seem so upset and surprised that he had not magically fixed all your problems. After all, why would you want the government fixing your problems anyway...that's not what they are for, right? I never expected Obama to be our savior, and I never expected him to fix all the problems in this country. Just like I wouldn't expect John McCain to either. I have a sinking feeling that if McCain would have won last November, then all the Democrats would be trashing him just as much for the lack of progress that has occurred with our current situation. I don't now nor have I ever blamed Obama 100% for the state of the economy. When Obama was elected in a landslide, I was hopeful that even though he was not my choice, maybe I could be open minded enough to give him a chance and see if I was wrong. That hasn't happened. It has gotten much, much worse, because the man doesn't know what he's doing. This administration is the blind leading the blind. I never expect any government to fix my problems. That's why I'm against big government. But I sure didn't want this to happen. Yes, I was hopeful Obama's "change" would be good, weren't you? Ask yourself this question: Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago? If you are, you're one of the rarest of the rare in this country. Wait...I just noticed you're 24 years old. That's not exactly a fair question to ask, because you were probably still a student 4 years ago. But most of us here will answer with a definite HELL NO! Edited March 16, 2010 by blueinbama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlueAlum 12 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I don't now nor have I ever blamed Obama 100% for the state of the economy. When Obama was elected in a landslide, I was hopeful that even though he was not my choice, maybe I could be open minded enough to give him a chance and see if I was wrong. That hasn't happened. It has gotten much, much worse, because the man doesn't know what he's doing. This administration is the blind leading the blind. I never expect any government to fix my problems. That's why I'm against big government. But I sure didn't want this to happen. Yes, I was hopeful Obama's "change" would be good, weren't you? Ask yourself this question: Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago? If you are, you're one of the rarest of the rare in this country. Wait...I just noticed you're 24 years old. That's not exactly a fair question to ask, because you were probably still a student 4 years ago. But most of us here will answer with a definite HELL NO! You are right, the answer to that question would be yes, and I was still in school 4 years ago. However, since then I have graduated college, gotten a job, married my girlfriend of 7 years, and built a new home. Also, most of my friends and family would also say that things have either gotten better, or at least stayed the same, for them. Maybe it's just luck. I do know that millions of people are facing hard times right now, and there are harder times yet to come. I guess I just get tired of the blame game, from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 (edited) You are right, the answer to that question would be yes, and I was still in school 4 years ago. However, since then I have graduated college, gotten a job, married my girlfriend of 7 years, and built a new home. Also, most of my friends and family would also say that things have either gotten better, or at least stayed the same, for them. Maybe it's just luck. I do know that millions of people are facing hard times right now, and there are harder times yet to come. I guess I just get tired of the blame game, from both sides. Congratulations BB Alum, I think that's awesome. I sincerely hope that continues. I just wish the rest of us were in the same boat as you and your friends and family. I'm in retail, and so is most of the rest of my family. My store is located in an upscale Mall that has never experienced anything like this in its existance. Retail is slowly coming back, but it is hit and miss most days. Two years ago my store was doing enough business to support 4 full time and 3 part time people. I have had to cut back to two full and two part timers, barely enough to cover the floor. Even people who have money are now being extremely cautious about shopping. Nobody knows what the future holds, but now everyone sees the writing on the wall. If we continue down this path, there will be no more mom and pop stores. All retail will be big box retail with companys like WalMart on the low end and Neiman Marcus on the high end ruling the retail world. That has already happened in most small towns with WalMart running many smaller stores out of business. I'm not blaming everything on Obama, Bush, or anyone, but right now Obama is in office, and he and his party hold the cards. We're at the mercy of the Obama administration, and until something changes to make a correction in this economy, I will be on him like white on rice...it's my duty as a father, a businessman, and as a taxpaying citizen. And if the Republicans win in 2012, I will be on them just as hard until things improve. This country and its people are too great to allow failure. Edited March 16, 2010 by blueinbama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveFan09 50 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I voted for McCain lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 I voted for McCain lol I didn't vote for either of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlueAlum 12 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 (edited) Congratulations BB Alum, I think that's awesome. I sincerely hope that continues. I just wish the rest of us were in the same boat as you and your friends and family. I'm in retail, and so is most of the rest of my family. My store is located in an upscale Mall that has never experienced anything like this in its existance. Retail is slowly coming back, but it is hit and miss most days. Two years ago my store was doing enough business to support 4 full time and 3 part time people. I have had to cut back to two full and two part timers, barely enough to cover the floor. Even people who have money are now being extremely cautious about shopping. Nobody knows what the future holds, but now everyone sees the writing on the wall. If we continue down this path, there will be no more mom and pop stores. All retail will be big box retail with companys like WalMart on the low end and Neiman Marcus on the high end ruling the retail world. That has already happened in most small towns with WalMart running many smaller stores out of business. I'm not blaming everything on Obama, Bush, or anyone, but right now Obama is in office, and he and his party hold the cards. We're at the mercy of the Obama administration, and until something changes to make a correction in this economy, I will be on him like white on rice...it's my duty as a father, a businessman, and as a taxpaying citizen. And if the Republicans win in 2012, I will be on them just as hard until things improve. This country and its people are too great to allow failure. Thank you for the well wishes, and I certainly hope things get better in your situation. I can imagine the hardships you are facing with the economy the way it is. Maybe my problem is that I never had hopes of things being any better at this point. I think it is going to take a lot longer than a year before we start seeing things turn around. These are very scary times for everyone. I feel very fortunate to have my job, and that, as of now, my position is secure. But, I also know that these times are very uncertain, and things can change in an instant. However, when starting my adult life I decided to make decisions that prepared me fore these uncertain times. I have made sure that even if I were to loose my job, I could still pay my bills while taking a significant pay cut. I am also a firm believer in having an emergency fund of 6-10 months of your expenses. At this point I have youth on my side, but I can see where these hardships are especially hard on the ones that were looking forward to retirement before all the crap hit the fan. It sucks to work hard your entire life, with dreams of one day being able to retire and do things that you enjoy, only to see your hard earned money disappear into thin air. It honestly makes me sick to even think about it. Edited March 17, 2010 by BigBlueAlum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireRed 94 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Write in vote for Gman with Lance for Vice president! Then we can discuss sports at the white house lol We would be better off discussing high school football at the white house than spending more money than our nation has :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Write in vote for Gman with Lance for Vice president! Then we can discuss sports at the white house lol We would be better off discussing high school football at the white house than spending more money than our nation has :rolleyes: First orders of business...get rid of the BCS crap and have a playoff in college football, allow all teams to make it into the "Big Dance", end the embargo on Cuba... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireRed 94 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 First orders of business...get rid of the BCS crap and have a playoff in college football, allow all teams to make it into the "Big Dance", end the embargo on Cuba... All sounds good with the exception of Cuba haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 All sounds good with the exception of Cuba haha You've obviously never smoked a Cuban cigar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueinbama 259 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 You've obviously never smoked a Cuban cigar...Maybe when Castro kicks the bucket we can end the embargo. Cuba is 90 miles from the Florida coast, and it's gotta be a beautiful island. What a waste. Imagine the tourist money they have missed out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireRed 94 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 You've obviously never smoked a Cuban cigar... Nope sure havent, good I take it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveFan09 50 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 lol ive smoked one, and know where a whole chest full of them are right here in Vansant, Va =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Maybe when Castro kicks the bucket we can end the embargo. Cuba is 90 miles from the Florida coast, and it's gotta be a beautiful island. What a waste. Imagine the tourist money they have missed out on. Castro has been dead for a few years now...its just that no one knows about it (for certain, anyway)... Cuba is already a huge tourist destination for Europeans and many of our neighbors to the north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 lol ive smoked one, and know where a whole chest full of them are right here in Vansant, Va =) Interesting...;)... I've know where a few are, in a certain humidor, in a secret location. :rolleyes: I got "busted" the first time I tried to order some from overseas...confiscated by customs at LAX. I ended up getting an empty box with a nice note from customs officials thanking me for the fine smokes...got a letter from OFAC about a month later asking if I'd like to contest the confiscation...no thanks...:D... I guess I'll just have to keep on smoking Nica Puros (the 2nd best cigars in the world) until the embargo is lifted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Interesting...;)... I've know where a few are, in a certain humidor, in a secret location. :rolleyes: I got "busted" the first time I tried to order some from overseas...confiscated by customs at LAX. I ended up getting an empty box with a nice note from customs officials thanking me for the fine smokes...got a letter from OFAC about a month later asking if I'd like to contest the confiscation...no thanks...:D... I guess I'll just have to keep on smoking Nica Puros (the 2nd best cigars in the world) until the embargo is lifted... Please stop propping up a Commie dictatorship please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan 3,569 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Please stop propping up a Commie dictatorship please!! My interests have nothing to do with politics...its all about the leaf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman 13 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 My interests have nothing to do with politics...its all about the leaf... That does not change the fact that your addiction is proping up the Castro brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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