free speech, firearms and schools

[redtiger 1,740]

I didn't know what title would be best for this thread so I just listed everything involved in the story.

 

Saw this story this morning and thought you guys would like it,

 

http://news.yahoo.com/w-va-teen-arrested-almost-012034855.html

 

Now, the student probably shouldn't have worn a shirt with a firearm on it to school and free speech is limited in the school setting but I think to have him arrested is over the line. Send him to the principals office, call his parents and suspend him. But arrest him? Now I don't know the whole story but it seems as though the school administration took this over board, as did the teacher. In a situation like that it would have been much better to simply take the student to the office rather than engage in a debate with him, allowing a small issue to become a much bigger one.

 

Personally, im proud of the young man for standing up for what he believes in.

[BIGkid 18]

The student got exactly what he wanted. Attention. We are suppose to learn very early in life and especially in school to follow the rules and to respect authority. Doesn't matter what he thinks or believes, he knew the rules and didn't abide by them. This is the problem with the world today. No responsibility or accountability. He was given more than one opportunity to change the shirt, turn it inside out or leave the school grounds. It seems like he may be a little hard headed or just plain stupid.

[swvacsas2 15]

The kid did the right thing. This is nothing but liberal political correctness. It goes both ways. If I were on the school board in Logan County I would not only reverse the policy but suggest that the originators of it might be more happy working in Yankeedom. There should be short shrift for educators pushing political correctness at the secondary level.

[deuceswild 15]

Personally, im proud of the young man for standing up for what he believes in.

 

Attention whoring and being a punk?

 

Can I wear my tie-dyed marijuana t-shirts to school now? Or Jesus is my Homeboy?

[Deleted Account 5,203]

Regardless of the student's views, the First Amendment is limited within the walls of a public school. The student was clearly trying to cause a scene, and would not subject himself to the rules of the school.

 

I have zero problem with this. He learned a valuable lesson: free speech is NOT universal.

 

Just ask GMan...

[Lance 228]

the world must have changed a lot since i was 14...back then, 14 year olds had no rights lol...well, other than to remain silent. I'm from the "children should be seen and not heard" era.

[redtiger 1,740]

I think the tshirt was inapporiate (the firearm is too much imo) but does not violate the schools dress code. I think the school did the right thing in asking him to remove it or turn it inside out. Im ok with everything that happened other than the teacher arguing with the student(unprofessional) and the police being called. Good for him wearing the shirt and good for them enforcing the rules.

 

Nothing wrong with trying to get some attention for what you believe in, just understand thet there are consequences for some actions and if you are gonna make a statement you may have to pay a price. The price is just excessive imo.

 

Wearing a shirt with a pot leaf on it is different; pot is illegal, firearms are not.

[Deleted Account 5,203]

I think the tshirt was inapporiate (the firearm is too much imo) but does not violate the schools dress code. I think the school did the right thing in asking him to remove it or turn it inside out. Im ok with everything that happened other than the teacher arguing with the student(unprofessional) and the police being called. Good for him wearing the shirt and good for them enforcing the rules.

 

Nothing wrong with trying to get some attention for what you believe in, just understand thet there are consequences for some actions and if you are gonna make a statement you may have to pay a price. The price is just excessive imo.

 

Wearing a shirt with a pot leaf on it is different; pot is illegal, firearms are not.

 

Since we agree on most things, I have one quibble. We are taking our interpretation all from the kid's lawyer, who is more than happy to talk to the media. The schools are bound by several state and federal laws that prohibit discussing details of an active delinquency violation. There's MUCH more than meets the eye here. It's clear that the kid went beyond mere noncompliance: otherwise, he'd have went to the principal's office and taken an in-school suspension or something like that.

 

Likely, here's what happened:

 

(1) Teacher approaches the student, and asks the student about the shirt.

(2) The kid smarts off at the teacher.

(3) The teacher asks the kid to take off the shirt.

(4) The kid smarts off again and probably says something wrong about his "rights".

(5) The teacher orders the kid to the principal's office.

(6) The kid loudly refuses.

(7) Other redneck kids start butting in in defense of their classmate.

(8) The cafeteria gets loud and noisy.

(9) The teacher calls police.

(10) Police come.

(11) The teacher asks again for the kid to go to the office.

(12) The kid again refuses.

(13) The teacher asks the officer to detain the kid.

(14) The kid complies.

[Hacker 82]

As I learned long ago, most folks escalate situations by their own actions. Much like the person who cops an attitude with a cop finds they get 10 citations instead of a warning.

 

Middle schoolers have a tendency to escalate small things into large things, and this one appears to have wanted a confrontation. That seems clear since he is the one who contacted the media.

[VHSLhelper 571]

lots of speculation and 1-sided facts here.

The real question is... does a TEACHER have the right/authority to tell the student to "un-display" the shirt or not. Me thinks teacher shoulda escorted student to the office... maybe not immediately, but at least when the student 1st refused.

My feeling is it was the teacher who wanted the attention... as well as the writer. Notice he ends the story by saying the kid wore the shirt again today (Monday). I would've contacted the school (or, better yet, went there) to see what happened before writing the story.

 

When I was in HS, I had a "confrontation" with the cafeteria 'boss' while in line. Lasted about 30 seconds. She went to the principal, who called me in next period to discuss it. Since some servers backed up my side, she ended up getting a talking to from him. School employees aren't always right.

[redtiger 1,740]

I think the teacher overstepped his bounds, things like that are the principals job or more specifically the vice principal. Each school and system is different but thats the general rule. Its a T-shirt, a small issue, one that needs to be addressed but it shouldnt even register with anyone outside of the school. To me it looks like the teacher handled it poorly.

 

It has to end at (3) on UVAOs list. When the student steps that far out of line the principal has to become involved. Let the principal come get him

[Deleted Account 5,203]

lots of speculation and 1-sided facts here.

The real question is... does a TEACHER have the right/authority to tell the student to "un-display" the shirt or not. Me thinks teacher shoulda escorted student to the office... maybe not immediately, but at least when the student 1st refused.

My feeling is it was the teacher who wanted the attention... as well as the writer. Notice he ends the story by saying the kid wore the shirt again today (Monday). I would've contacted the school (or, better yet, went there) to see what happened before writing the story.

 

When I was in HS, I had a "confrontation" with the cafeteria 'boss' while in line. Lasted about 30 seconds. She went to the principal, who called me in next period to discuss it. Since some servers backed up my side, she ended up getting a talking to from him. School employees aren't always right.

 

Yes.

[HurricaneWarning 212]

Attention whoring and being a punk?

 

Can I wear my tie-dyed marijuana t-shirts to school now? Or Jesus is my Homeboy?

 

You still in school?

[deuceswild 15]

You still in school?

 

Yeah, I didn't stop at middle school. I kept on going.

[coacher 10]

lots of speculation and 1-sided facts here.

The real question is... does a TEACHER have the right/authority to tell the student to "un-display" the shirt or not. Me thinks teacher shoulda escorted student to the office... maybe not immediately, but at least when the student 1st refused.

My feeling is it was the teacher who wanted the attention... as well as the writer. Notice he ends the story by saying the kid wore the shirt again today (Monday). I would've contacted the school (or, better yet, went there) to see what happened before writing the story.

 

When I was in HS, I had a "confrontation" with the cafeteria 'boss' while in line. Lasted about 30 seconds. She went to the principal, who called me in next period to discuss it. Since some servers backed up my side, she ended up getting a talking to from him. School employees aren't always right.

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/In+Loco+Parentis

 

Teacher had every right to ask him to turn shirt inside out or to change shirts.

[swvacsas2 15]

No teacher should be able to enforce a unilateral dress code. If the slogan on the shirt was liable to cause physical disruption in the school or classroom- a case could be made for the action of the teacher. This does not seem to be the case at all. The sentiments expressed on the shirt are held by the great majority of the people in Logan County. No threatening sentiments were displayed on the shirt. The NRA is a well supported group in these mountains. Controversy in and of itself should be no reason for the overblown action of the educator in question. The shirt did not agree with his political opinions. It should not be the business of educators to serve as an in school political action committee. This is a plain case of political correctness gone amuck.

[redtiger 1,740]

Yeah, I didn't stop at middle school. I kept on going.

 

hahaha that was pretty good

[Deleted Account 5,203]

No teacher should be able to enforce a unilateral dress code. If the slogan on the shirt was liable to cause physical disruption in the school or classroom- a case could be made for the action of the teacher. This does not seem to be the case at all. The sentiments expressed on the shirt are held by the great majority of the people in Logan County. No threatening sentiments were displayed on the shirt. The NRA is a well supported group in these mountains. Controversy in and of itself should be no reason for the overblown action of the educator in question. The shirt did not agree with his political opinions. It should not be the business of educators to serve as an in school political action committee. This is a plain case of political correctness gone amuck.

 

I bet your answer would not be the same if you were an educator in Marin County, California and you saw this shirt:

 

 

The sentiments expressed on the shirt are held by the great majority of the people in Marin County. No threatening sentiments were displayed on the shirt. Democrats are a well supported group in those foothills. Controversy in and of itself should be a HUGE reason that dress codes should be strictly enforced. You check your free speech at the door.

 

Edit: For the record, I find that shirt abominable, but I have to show it to make the point.

[deuceswild 15]

Totally abominable. Jesus would peace sign. A thumbs up is considered an insult in certain circles of the Earth.

[blueinbama 259]

Attention whoring and being a punk?

 

Can I wear my tie-dyed marijuana t-shirts to school now? Or Jesus is my Homeboy?

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[swvacsas2 15]

"The sentiments expressed on the shirt are held by the great majority of the people in Marin County. No threatening sentiments were displayed on the shirt. Democrats are a well supported group in those foothills. Controversy in and of itself should be a HUGE reason that dress codes should be strictly enforced. You check your free speech at the door.

 

Edit: For the record, I find that shirt abominable, but I have to show it to make the point. "

 

 

The kid has a right to wear it. I do not like it- but it is not obscene and would certainly not incite violence in Marin. Might excite controversy- I say might because its Marin- but it does not meet standards meriting the suppression of expression. It is a dangerous piece of business to allow an individual educator to impose his political ideas on his students. Controversy and debate are proper to education unless they excite violence or undue disruption. NRA tees in Logan County do not meet that standard.

[deuceswild 15]

Pot, meet kettle.

 

Hey look, someone finally got it.

[VHSLhelper 571]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/In+Loco+Parentis

 

Teacher had every right to ask him to turn shirt inside out or to change shirts.

 

Didn't say otherwise. But the student also has the right the refuse to do something that the teacher asks, esp. if the teacher is 'wrong'. Like I said, teacher shoulda went up the chain instead of creating a scene.