Grundy - Richlands -schedules and cupcakes

[Lance 228]

Ok...I posted this over on Va Preps in response to some crap from that 82nd dude...so I figure I will open it for discussion here as well, kinda takes from the other post here about the crickets...lol.

 

 

3 KY cupcakes?

 

-Sheldon Clark

-Shelby Valley

-Paintsville

 

*all 3 of these teams made the playoffs in KY last year.

 

Painstville is 4 -0 coming into this game against grundy and from what I have heard they have (2) running backs with 7 or 8 TD's each. I doubt they will be a "cupcake"...but if Grundy manages to win by more than a TD they will be considered "another KY cupcake" and if they win then "grundy was way over rated to begin with and have simply fallen apart after the Richlands game". We can't win either way in public opinion.

 

 

Grundy made some mistakes against Richlands that made it hard for them...it could have been a lot closer game than it looks like on paper. Richlands had the better team, but Grundy made the kind of mistakes that you simply can't make against anyone and expect to win.

 

As for playing Powell Valley, Grundy last played them as recently as 2001 and 2002 and beat them by more than a TD each year?

 

 

Let's just look at the schedules a little closer since everyone likes to bring this up so often about how "weak" Grundy's Schedule is compared to Richlands.

 

2004 Richlands Schedule

 

Date Opponent

8/27 at Gate City

9/3 Tazewell

9/10 at Grundy

9/24 at Graham

9/17 at Abingdon

10/1 Lee

10/8 Marion

10/15 OPEN

10/22 at Virginia

10/29 Carroll Co.

11/5 Lebanon

 

 

2004 Grundy Schedule

 

Date Opponent

8/28 at Sheldon Clark, KY

9/3 Shelby Valley, KY

9/10 Richlands

9/17 Paintsville, KY

9/24 OPEN

10/1 Marion

10/8 at Graham

10/15 Abingdon

10/22 Carroll Co.

10/29 at Tazewell

11/5 Virginia

 

 

Looks to me like it's the same except for:

 

Lee

Lebanon

Gate City

 

So what everyone keeps saying is that it is horrible that grundy, a much smaller school than Richlands, is playing 3 KY playoff teams, 2 of which are larger than Grundy instead of being a Division 4 team like Richlands and playing 2 single A teams and Lee????

 

Granted that Gate City is larger than Grundy also and should be playing in AA ball. I guess they like the comfort of racking you Single A state titles? So I would say thats a legit "harder team"...however, Lebanon and Lee?

 

Come on people, let's stop saying all this crap about how tuff Richlands schedule is compared to grundy's ..I mean really...after reading this do you STILL think Richlands plays THAT much of a different schedule? 70% of the games are the exact same between the two schools.

[jmarcum 10]

Heres some numbers. To me it looks only fair to say that Grundy plays big teams.

 

Grundy enrollement 507

__________________________

 

Opponents:

Abingdon 975

Carroll County 826

Marion 582

Tazwell 598

Virginia High 606

Richlands 781

Shelby Valley is AA with an enrollement of 600 or more i do believe.

 

So bottom line is we play larger schools. Graham is smaller and maybe one more team but thats it. Richlands is larger than us and plays virtually the same schedule. So there goes your argument about us playing smaller, weaker teams. Sure I would like to start the season out with maybe like va high, abingdon, or someone else but what does it matter? The end result is all that matters. Grundy does good year in and year out. Sure Richlands has our number for the last 7 years but I think Graham has had theirs too. Everyone has stretches, good and bad. I just think since we are so small and Graham also, that we deserve to be commended for playing who we do every year, not blasted.

 

When Gate City has a down season and Richlands beats up on them they will hear the same thing. Its just gonna happen. Any time a larger school beats up a smaller school it happens but bottom line is if you look at who we play they aren't as small as we are. I think everyone thinks of us as a 1200 + student powerhouse because of how good we do year in and year out. We are not some huge powerhouse. We are a small school that doesnt play 10 single A teams. WE play two or three and thats it.Richlands plays a few themselves. Yet we consistently reach the playoffs and hold our own with AA teams. Sure we haven't won a state title but every single time that Grundy has made it to the state semi title game the team that beat them won the state title. And pound for pound the Grundy 96 team could have held its own with any team to ever grace the fields of SWVA. As they lost by 1 point in overtime to the state champions of Salem. Haven't been a lot of 10-0 teams in SWVA but that team was one of them.

 

Look at our sideline. In case you haven't noticed we have a lot less players than teams we face. Yet year in and year out Grundy has won 7 or more games dating back to the early to mid 90's. In that span they have been to 3 state semi final games and went 10-0 once. Not a whole lot of teams can say that especially many AA teams with an enrollement of less than 600 players.

[Observer77 12]

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks Grundy isn't a good football team. I also don't think anyone in their right mind thinks Richlands isn't a good football team either. That being said, I honestly don't think that Grundy has a tougher schedule than Richlands...this year. Yes, Paintsville has a good team this year, however, Sheldon Clark is 1-3 with a victory over 1-3 East Ridge who is a consolidated school from two smaller schools that neither had a football program before combining. Shelby Valley is 1-2 with a win over winless Pineville. Sheldon Clark finished 8-4 last year while Shelby Valley finished at 5-6.

Lebanon has a good football program in my opinion, maybe others disagree...but that is what forums like this are for. They are 2-0 presently & defeated a pretty good Tazewell team (at least I think they are pretty good, opinions may vary). The Dawgs did stay within at least 21 points of the Blues & gave them fits for most of the game. Lee High's program is in disarray, I don't think anyone would question that. The playoff loss that Sheldon Clark suffered last year was to the same program that Lee High lost to this past Friday night (Middlesboro), and the final outcome of that game was close to the same point margin that S. Clark faced in 2003. I'm sure S. Clark isn't the same team they were last year, but neither is Lee High, Grundy, Richlands, Graham, et al for that matter.

I would love it if Gate City was geographically located near the SWD schools so that the Devils could play in that district. I've made that very comment on this forum in that past as well. I as well as most GC fans miss AA ball. Racking "A" titles? GC has four, 3 coming in AA. I would hardly say that GC had to drop to single A to win a state championship. It seems to me as if some on this forum, especially Grundy fans, try to talk negatively about Gate City in attempt to make themselves look good. How you make that correlation is beyond me, and probably beyond anyone else that knows the history between GC & Grundy. I guess the 19-2 series record GC has against Grundy may have something to do with the trash talk of Wave fans. Last victory over GC by Grundy was in 1960. Some information to chew on a while. Not trying to start an argument, but GC's record against:

 

Tazewell 19-8

Graham 19-15

Richlands 20-14-1

 

I hardly think that wanting to go single A to supposedly "rack up state titles" came to mind when whoever within the Scott Co. school system decided to have them drop. When & if Virginia High (who has close to 100 more in enrollment than GC) drops to Single A as recommended by the VH$L, will you be saying the same thing about their program...wanting to rack up titles? How about Floyd & Grayson County? They have a larger enrollment than Gate City, are they racking up state titles? They are all three more centrally located to more AA programs than GC. Lance, why aren't you dogging those three schools? I welcome VHS if they come to the LPD as planned, although it has already been said in newspaper articles that VHS will fight it to join the Hogo due to geography. Hmmm...geography...you think that might have been a reason for GC finally stopping the petitioning to play AA ball with numbers considered single A by the VHSL. Nah, not you and probably not anyone else trying to validate a rivalry loss by downing another school not even in the mix as far as SWD play is concerned.

 

[Lance 228]

I don't know where you see anyone talking trash about GC? Other than them playing down to rack up state titles...yeah that might be out of context...the only reason I even brought GC up was because that is the thing people seem to think Richlands is playing such a hard schedule, because they are playing them first.

 

I'm not talking anyone down to make anyone else look better, I'm simply saying that just because they are playing GC and Grundy scheduled these other teams, why is it everyone is "dogging" Grundy for playing "cupcakes"?

 

All I'm trying to get at is that 70% of the games are the same and the other 3 are not THAT far out of the same league. Not saying anything whatsoever bad about GC or not trying to anyway I think they are a good team and one of the best in the state at ANY level year in and year out...they tend to dominate the Single A division and they could make a good run at AA if they played there...we all know that.

 

Again, not trying to say Grundy has a harder schedule than Richlands...I'm saying they have a similar schedule and everyone is trying to make it out like Grundy has an easy schedule and Richlands has a hard schedule...and that's simply not true.

 

As far as these KY teams go, they are of equal size as the SWD teams and ALL did make the playoffs last year, when they were scheduled...whatever the record this year, you can't fault Grundy for scheduling playoff quality teams in the off season...thats it..all I have to say.

[BigD4VT 11]

Here's my take on this whole thing. First, When you beat a team as badly as Grundy beat the Kentucky teams people are going to say they are "Weak Teams". That doesn't mean they are...just means that's what people will think. I heard that one of those schools didn't even have a football team until this year. Now I know that's not true but it shows that they became "Weaker" with every conversation about them.

 

Second, I'm not sure anyone is arguing Richlands has a tougher schedule than Grundy overall. I think the point was Richlands was better prepared after tough games against Gate City and Tazewell than Grundy was against Richlands after seemingly easy wins over Sheldon Clark and Shelby Valley.

 

My opinion is that although the Kentucky teams made the playoffs last year they are not the same caliber as the SW Virginia teams. One look at the schedules of both those schools will show they played close games against everyone except Grundy. That alone tells me the level of competition they play in Kentucky is not as good as here.

 

I personally believe Grundy is a really good team but I think you would have been better prepared for Richlands if you had been tested earlier like Richlands was. You said yourself the Grundy players were worn out. Did the starters play four quarters against the KY teams? Even if they did were they playing all out the entire game? The Richlands starters played buzzer to buzzer against GC and if memory serves they did the same against Tazewell.

 

Grundy plays in a tough district and a tough region. In my opinion they would better served playing Single-A teams in VA that they know can play with them, than they are by blowing out KY teams. Even though it might hurt you points wise in the playoff picture, I think it would make you better prepared for the rest of your schedule which is very tough. Like Frank Beamer said in the 80's when VT was playing very tough schedules "If you want to be the best, you have to play the best."

[BigD4VT 11]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know where you see anyone talking trash about GC? Other than them playing down to rack up state titles...yeah that might be out of context...the only reason I even brought GC up was because that is the thing people seem to think Richlands is playing such a hard schedule, because they are playing them first.

 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, quite a few Grundy fans last week put Richlands down for losing to a Single-A team that lost 20 seniors. That was the basis for the predictions of eminent destruction of Richlands by Grundy. Not saying you said anything like that but plenty of people did.

[Lance 228]

I agree with a lot of that in playing "better teams helping build a better team" early on in the season, but by the time the playoffs get here...playing the SWD teams and the schedule they play, I don't think it has anything to do with the week 5 and on teams after the bye week...the Grundy starters being worn out was a direct result of having the defense on the field with minimal substitutions during the game...they kept the best in the game they had to deal with...playing GC for 5 quarters would not have helped that situation at all I dont think...if anything it might have made it worse. The Grundy team is in great condition, that is not the problem...Richlands was able to keep the defense on the field long enough to wear them down...and Grundy had something it didn't have in the two previous games - mistakes. Combine the two and you have the end result.

 

Grundy's starters only played 2 - 2.5 quarters in each of the first two games against the KY teams. Just FYI.

 

Grundy showed Richlands it could run the ball on them and hang with them...then the mistakes started happening and the wheels came off...end of story. Take away 3 plays and you have a whole new ball game...the 2 fumbled punts and that play where they put 4 seconds back on the clock right before the half.

 

Does Richlands still win if you take those away? You bet! They were the better of the two teams that night, no doubt about it. But those 3 plays made it a lot more of a "blowout" than it should have been.

 

Physical fatigue? no...mental breakdown? yes. That was the difference in the two teams. You can't play that kind of ball against any team and expect to win...much less against a team like Richlands who knows how to put you away if they can get you down.

 

I don't think the schedule has much to do with it...I think that is something people use as an excuse as to why Richlands owns Grundy for 7 years...my point of this whole discussion was to put forth "facts" to try to look at this as a possible theory.

 

I also don't think it has anything to do with Graham consistantly beating us in the later part of the season as I stated before. I think at the end of the year, after playing the same teams for 7 or 8 weeks that Richalnds does...the teams are even at that point as far the schedule is concerned...I don't think playing GC in week 1 helps you in week 12...outside of what your kids might "learn" on the field from the experience in certain situational aspects.

 

Anyway blah blah blah...i'm ranting at this point...excuse me.

[Grundy10 10]

Actually Sheldon Clarke opened up with a win over Bourbon County KY...A team that beat them a year ago....I dont think they have played the "consolidated East Ridge that is so weak" that you talked about? If they have...Thats 2 wins not 1...Good research none the less....

[BigD4VT 11]

I totally agree that the game could have been much closer. I kept waiting for Grundy to make it a game and when Marcum made that long TD run I figured it was on. But you're right. Richlands capitalized on Grundy's mistakes and just kept building on that momentum.

[Lance 228]

That's why I say it was just one of those nights and they couldn't get it going...everyone has those sometime...you give a good team the chance and they will go for the throat. The thing is that Richlands made them pay for every single mistake they made...that's a good team that can take advantage of that sort of situation. Well coached, very focused.

 

Grundy did the same thing last year at Paintsville believe it or not...they scored 24 points in a 1:32 seconds right before the half and knocked them out of the ballgame. Up until that point the two teams were fairly close. Being able to "finish" off a team like that is not something everyone can do. In the past few years Grundy has had Richlands to that point and just couldn't close the door...remember the onside kick??? Things can get out of control quickly on just a couple of plays.

 

Last year in the playoffs, Grundy and Feildale Collinsville had a 40 point shootout in the first half that you would have had to see to believe. Grundy was able to pull ahead in that one for good late in the 4th...could have easily gone the other way.

 

I'm rambling on again...lol.

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

Let's take the 6 teams that are different, and rank them as who appears stronger.

 

I figure most peoples list would look like this:

 

1) Gate City

2) Lebanon

3) Paintsville

4)Sheldon Clark

5) Lee

6) Shelby Valley

 

The bottom 3 might see different results, but I suspect GC and Lebanon will be considered tougher, and most likely are, even if they aren't AA schools.

 

I think the flack comes from Grundy playing these schools early in the year, right before the Richlands game. Let's say Grundy played Va. High or Abingdon or Tazewell early, prior to Richlands, the outcome of the game wouldn't have a "you played cupcakes" tone to it (if it did, then those against Grundy in this discussion are being hypocritical).

 

However, there is something to be said for the Ky teams. Grundy having such lopsided games only shows that Grundy wasn't battle tested as Richlands was. Not necessary that the KY teams are cupcakes.

[Observer77 12]

Lance, I enjoy this board just as I enjoy keeping up with SWD football even though GC is unfortunately not a part of it any longer. Hopefully some day GC will be back playing the Graham's, Grundy's, Tazewell's & Richlands' of the world. I know I wouldn't be the only one happy if this does take place. I also enjoy this board because you can have a decent & intelligent conversation about SWVA football by speaking your mind without idiocy abounding. I help moderate a board currently that I honestly can't say the same about. What BigD4VT referred to about certain people downing Richlands for losing to a single A team that lost 18 seniors from last year had a lot to do with the tone of my posting. I wasn't alone with unexpected joy when we came out with the victory against the Blues in how the Devils played. Honestly I was upset with myself for doubting them. When I came onto the board the next day, a poster from Grundy was more or less giving both teams down the road, negative comments thrown here and there, most of them obviously incorrect by anyone without extreme bias. I knew Richlands has a good team & the Devils have a lot to improve upon. There's probably not many more people more critical of a team's performanace as a spectator as I happen to be. I just found those comments made by the poster run all over me like hot water on my back.

I always root for the Orginal SWD Four when they face others from outside the district, whether it be Grundy, Graham, Tazewell or Richlands. There's a lot of good memories & great tradition from the old SWD that always makes me feel proud when any of them excel. I remember when I got out of the service & went back to college & worked in a restaurant in Kingsport. Joe Cundiff (Graham QB in the 80's) came in with a group of people & I went over & started talking SWD football with him. He seemed interested in talking but I think it weirded him out that I knew so much about him, much less knowing who he was in the first place lol.

No harm, no foul here on my end. The only reason I went into a rant in the thread above was due to the continued comparison (almost completely negative in context) of GC within postings. I, like the rest of you, am proud of my school/football program/etc. Maybe too proud, I don't know. I guess sometimes it's just a part of our past that we cherish in memory & continue to support due to that reason.

I'm done, sorry so lengthy. Good luck to the Wave against Paintsville this Friday, show them what good SWD/SWVA smashmouth is all about.

[Lance 228]

I don't happen to agree with anything you have said, but I'm not going to argue with you about it...think what you want...this is one of those things where people will make up their mind one way or another and no matter what you put out as support for your argument, they have already decided...you might "enlighten" a few people but the majority don't want to hear the truth they want to follow the rhetoric....be it true or not.

[Lance 228]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm done, sorry so lengthy. Good luck to the Wave against Paintsville this Friday, show them what good SWD/SWVA smashmouth is all about.

 

[/ QUOTE ]

 

That's cool man...I wish you guys nothing but the best of luck and maybe someday we'll see the schools get together again on the field in some way.

[djr4hurleyfb 12]

You started the topic, yet you blowoff my response to your topic as being rhetoric instead of truth. I could do little more in my prior post to agree with what your saying, but its rhetoric to post something I feel.

 

Truth is, being a playoff team is a blinding fact. One team finished 5-6 after the playoffs. Looking back to last year, at 4-6 Hurley almost made the playoffs (had Pound and St. Paul lost in the final week, Hurley would have been the 4th seed) last year. Does that qualify them as a good measuring stick for Grundy to prepare for Richlands?

 

Regardless, no opponent could have prepared Grundy for Richlands when you make the mistakes they made. I'm leaving it at that.

[Lance 228]

I wasn't talking directly towards you past the first sentence.

[Observer77 12]

Grundy10, you are right, Sheldon Clark's one win this year so far did come over Bourbon County (currently 0-3) instead of East Ridge, who they haven't played & not sure if they will. I stand corrected, thanks for the heads up.

[olewave 44]

lets put some things straight here. grundy played powell valley 2 straight years in 2000 and 2001. won both, played terrible against richlands and lost. when richlands and grundy play it usually does not matter who they have played before. richlands is d4 and needs the game worse than grundy does, because of all the teams in division 4. another loss by richlands, will hurt their chances of playoffs, except if they win the district. now for scheduling at grundy. you are more than welcome to come and help the ad schedule if you would like. there is still people in southwest va. who still think the roads are not paved to grundy and it is a long trip. mainly the wine and cheese crowd over in the highlands. do you actually think abingdon or va high would be playing grundy if they could schedule someone else? no... for people who have not seen a map of where grundy is, it is a lot better of a trip to play any of the schools in kentucky than try to get to lee. it is only a 3 hour drive to lexington from grundy and mostly 4 lane road. take away richlands tainted state championship, and see who has had the most playoff games played the last 10 years. grundy or richlands. my final comment is richlands played at higher level than grundy friday night, not due to scheduling. they wanted it more. good luck to them the rest of the way and lets hope they represent the swd well.

[BigBlue02 11]

The way I see it after reading all this is that Grundy was not prepared for the game.All the stuff aside thats it plain and simple.I have a lot of respect for grundy more so than any other SWD team.

 

GO BIG BLUE!!!!!!!